338 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Sarlic, on 11 September 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

I think as expected? Russ stated he wanted to go back more to the roots. Sean Lang said most of the rediculous quirks would be gone.

The small weapon quirks were hardly "ridiculous." Some people on this forum just have an ideological hatred of them, no matter what values are chosen.

[KraftySOT]

So it was just a massive dequirkening?

ROFL.

[Sarlic]

Alistair Winter, on 11 September 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

It's become increasingly obvious that PGI, and even the most hardcore MWO players, don't give two sh*ts about this line of reasoning. I personally do care about being loyal to mechs' original purpose in lore. But neither PGI nor most fans do anymore.

A lot of people like to posture and talk about how lore is super important to them... and they're still consistently playing with the most meta builds available, with no regard for lore at all. If people could run 8xMPL and an XL400 engine on the Mauler, most players wouldn't hesitate to turn that venerable long range support mech into a fast brawler. They'd do it at the drop of a dime.

Cold hard truth right there.

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

The small weapon quirks were hardly "ridiculous." Some people on this forum just have an ideological hatred of them, no matter what values are chosen.

Didnt the Huggin had rediculous quirks? Come on now.

Or do i misunderstand you? What's 'small'?

Edited by Sarlic, 11 September 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Mcgral18, on 11 September 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Also....LOL, Victor. It's so Terribad.

+10 to the CT, in structure
+9 to STs
+8 to arms and legs.

Oh noes. Why victor, Why?

:-(

guess we'll be waiting on that resize now, won't we?

Edited by Scout Derek, 11 September 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 11 September 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

It's become increasingly obvious that PGI, and even the most hardcore MWO players, don't give two sh*ts about this line of reasoning. I personally do care about being loyal to mechs' original purpose in lore. But neither PGI nor most fans do anymore.

A lot of people like to posture and talk about how lore is super important to them... and they're still consistently playing with the most meta builds available, with no regard for lore at all. If people could run 8xMPL and an XL400 engine on the Mauler, most players wouldn't hesitate to turn that venerable long range support mech into a fast brawler. They'd do it at the drop of a dime.

There are two types of lore/fluff interpretations: Strict and Loose.

Strict is the obvious one, it refers to by-the-books to-the-letter. Nothing can ever be different ever.

Loose is more about the "general idea" than following every letter.


(I'm in the loose category).

[KraftySOT]

Whats this "this account is not authorized" thing on the PTS?

Its not turned on yets?

[Sarlic]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Whats this "this account is not authorized" thing on the PTS?

Its not turned on yets?

Same. Wait for announcement i suppose.

[FupDup]

Sarlic, on 11 September 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

Didnt the Huggin had rediculous quirks? Come on now.

Or do i misunderstand you? What's 'small'?

Some mechs had things like -5% missile spread, 10% ballistic cooldown, -3% energy heat, etc.

[Sarlic]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Some mechs had things like -5% missile spread, 10% ballistic cooldown, -3% energy heat, etc.

Guess i misunderstood you, i agree.

[KraftySOT]

And it looks like the Spider can now target things SUPER REALLY AWESOME FAST, but cant target them for very long once they vanish around a corner.

All its other quirks are gone.

This is madness lol. Were either missing something here, or we're going to have to play test this like crazy and redo the quirks that make sense.

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

There are two types of lore/fluff interpretations: Strict and Loose.
Strict is the obvious one, it refers to by-the-books to-the-letter. Nothing can ever be different ever.
Loose is more about the "general idea" than following every letter.
(I'm in the loose category).

That's a false dichotomy if I've ever seen one, but anyway. If the loose category is "turn a long range fire support mech into a fast frontline brawler", then there's nothing wrong with giving the Adder sensor quirks instead of weapon quirks.

[Scout Derek]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

And it looks like the Spider can now target things SUPER REALLY AWESOME FAST, but cant target them for very long once they vanish around a corner.

All its other quirks are gone.

This is madness lol. Were either missing something here, or we're going to have to play test this like crazy and redo the quirks that make sense.

So, was I right in my sensor theory then?

I can't check it out as I'm at work on my phone typing this.

[Kira Onime]

Mcgral18, on 11 September 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

The Banshee 3M has...lost...every single weapon quirk?

Most mechs lost all their quirks and got replaced with the new things you see.
Only mech I looked at so far that kept some of its original quirks is the TBR with the laser duration ones.

[Mcgral18]

Bilbo, on 11 September 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

So, someone dig in there and let me know what they have done with my Atlas, please.

Any particular variant?

Atlas K:

  <QuirkList>
	<Quirk name="internalresist_ct_additive" value="26" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_lt_additive" value="25" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_rt_additive" value="25" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_la_additive" value="25" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_ra_additive" value="25" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_ll_additive" value="25" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_rl_additive" value="25" />
	<Quirk name="targetscantime_medium_multiplier" value="-0.5" />
	<Quirk name="targetscantime_long_multiplier" value="-0.6" />
	<Quirk name="targetacquisitiondelay_additive" value="1" />
  </QuirkList>

Atlas S:

<QuirkList>
	<Quirk name="torsoangle_yaw_additive" value="35" />
	<Quirk name="torsospeed_yaw_multiplier" value="0.1" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_ct_additive" value="15" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_lt_additive" value="14" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_rt_additive" value="14" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_la_additive" value="14" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_ra_additive" value="14" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_ll_additive" value="13" />
	<Quirk name="internalresist_rl_additive" value="13" />
	<Quirk name="targetscantime_short_multiplier" value="2" />
	<Quirk name="targetscantime_medium_multiplier" value="0.165" />
	<Quirk name="targetscantime_long_multiplier" value="0.2" />
	<Quirk name="targetacquisitiondelay_additive" value="4" />
  </QuirkList>

For comparisons sake, Dire Whale Prime:

 
-<component name="centre_torso">
<Quirk name="torsospeed_yaw_multiplier" value="-0.2"/>
<Quirk name="accellerp_all_multiplier" value="-0.3"/>
<Quirk name="decellerp_all_multiplier" value="-0.3"/>
<Quirk name="turnlerp_all_multiplier" value="-0.15"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_short_multiplier" value="2"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_medium_multiplier" value="0.33"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_long_multiplier" value="0.2"/>
<Quirk name="targetretentiontime_additive" value="1"/>
<Quirk name="targetacquisitiondelay_additive" value="3"/>
</component>
 
-<component name="head">
<Quirk name="targetscantime_short_multiplier" value="-2"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_medium_multiplier" value="-0.66"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_long_multiplier" value="-0.4"/>
</component>
 
-<component name="right_leg">
<Quirk name="accellerp_all_multiplier" value="0.1"/>
<Quirk name="decellerp_all_multiplier" value="0.1"/>
</component>
 
-<component name="right_torso">
<Quirk name="torsoangle_yaw_additive" value="10"/>
<Quirk name="torsospeed_yaw_multiplier" value="0.15"/>
<Quirk name="accellerp_all_multiplier" value="0.15"/>
<Quirk name="decellerp_all_multiplier" value="0.15"/>
<Quirk name="turnlerp_all_multiplier" value="0.15"/>
</component>
 
-<component name="right_arm">
<Hardpoint lookAim="1" Type="1" ID="30"/>
<Hardpoint lookAim="1" Type="0" ID="31"/>
<Quirk name="torsoangle_yaw_additive" value="-10"/>
<Quirk name="torsospeed_yaw_multiplier" value="-0.05"/>
<Quirk name="targetretentiontime_additive" value="-1.75"/>
<Quirk name="targetacquisitiondelay_additive" value="1"/>
</component>
 
-<component name="left_torso">
<Hardpoint lookAim="0" Type="2" ID="20"/>
<Quirk name="torsoangle_yaw_additive" value="10"/>
<Quirk name="torsospeed_yaw_multiplier" value="0.1"/>
<Quirk name="accellerp_all_multiplier" value="0.1"/>
<Quirk name="decellerp_all_multiplier" value="0.1"/>
<Quirk name="turnlerp_all_multiplier" value="0.05"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_short_multiplier" value="-0.75"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_medium_multiplier" value="-0.25"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_long_multiplier" value="-0.15"/>
<Quirk name="targetretentiontime_additive" value="1"/>
</component>
 
-<component name="left_leg">
<Quirk name="accellerp_all_multiplier" value="0.1"/>
<Quirk name="decellerp_all_multiplier" value="0.1"/>
</component>
 
-<component name="left_arm">
<Hardpoint lookAim="1" Type="1" ID="40"/>
<Hardpoint lookAim="1" Type="0" ID="41"/>
<Quirk name="torsoangle_yaw_additive" value="-10"/>
<Quirk name="torsospeed_yaw_multiplier" value="-0.1"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_short_multiplier" value="0.75"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_medium_multiplier" value="0.25"/>
<Quirk name="targetscantime_long_multiplier" value="0.15"/>
<Quirk name="targetacquisitiondelay_additive" value="1"/>
</component>
</Set>

Are those...lots and lots of NegaQuirks?

Scout Derek, on 11 September 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

You think you could pull up all the mechs quirks? If you can and have the time, not demanding, just wondering

And was I right in the rough prediction of my sensor theory?

IS mechs are easy, a single copy paste section...Clams...well, see above. That's one of 5 variants. One of five that can mix and match 8 pods.

Edited by Mcgral18, 11 September 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[Sarlic]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

And it looks like the Spider can now target things SUPER REALLY AWESOME FAST, but cant target them for very long once they vanish around a corner.

All its other quirks are gone.

This is madness lol. Were either missing something here, or we're going to have to play test this like crazy and redo the quirks that make sense.

I think it makes sense.

PGI want to get more rolewarfare. Quirks made the game rediculous. Everbody knows that. Small, big, high or what else. It's the quirkening.

I think they're going back to the drawing table and start rebuilding from there and start with structure quirks first and then look further on the weapon values. Instead of having insanely high specific weapon quirks on chassis / mechs?

Would make sense. And then look further on-how to balance. (This time getting more data from feedback)

Edited by Sarlic, 11 September 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Scout Derek, on 11 September 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

So, was I right in my sensor theory then?

I can't check it out as I'm at work on my phone typing this.

Sort of. You were right it happened. I was right about how it happened. Its quirks. They didnt do anything to the sensor system itself, and it doesnt appear to be based on "geometry" nearly as much as it is "what we think you should do with it".

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 11 September 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

That's a false dichotomy if I've ever seen one, but anyway. If the loose category is "turn a long range fire support mech into a fast frontline brawler", then there's nothing wrong with giving the Adder sensor quirks instead of weapon quirks.

I'm referring to things like, for example, sometimes people think that a Catapult K2 should never use anything except PPCs versus allowing it to use other big energy weapons.

Then of course there's the third stance of not trying at all, for the K2 that would be something like Gauss Rifle quirks or the Adder's sensors.

[KraftySOT]

Yeah back to the drawing board is fine. Quirks achieved its goal. (there were seriously about 12 mechs that were really good) But it didnt help. It didnt fix the problem.

Clearly then they need help with this.

Hence why Mike was begging for us to show up to this.

Now its back to network error.

I guess it was up for a minute, and they had permissions on, with only them set to get in, to make sure its working.

Soon™

[Sarlic]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Yeah back to the drawing board is fine. Quirks achieved its goal. (there were seriously about 12 mechs that were really good) But it didnt help. It didnt fix the problem.

Clearly then they need help with this.

Hence why Mike was begging for us to show up to this.

Yeah wondering what PGI's strategy is. Remove quirks, strenghten overall chassis and analyse gameplay?

[Scout Derek]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Sort of. You were right it happened. I was right about how it happened. Its quirks. They didnt do anything to the sensor system itself, and it doesnt appear to be based on "geometry" nearly as much as it is "what we think you should do with it".

Huh, well, it's half and half then, half okay, half not okay.

Well, now we wait.

Waiting for the PTS server to pop up.


Oh, Mcgral, could you pull up the Wolverine and Trebuchet? I really want to see what happened to them quirk wise.