154 replies to this topic

[Mordin Ashe]

Ugh, IS needs something to counter Clan weapons? Why the hell than I can fire twice and must wait 20s to cool down while IS is firing left and right, dealing multiples of my damage and never overheat? I smell a hypocrite, OP, and the stench is comming from your direction. IS doesn't need any counter, it can freely downgrade engines or switch upgrades and minmax their machines to high heavens (which is what they do, it got out of hand and now again PGI has to do something about it). I can minmax my omnipods, yes, but I am stacking debuffs as is and no matter what I change on my Clan Mechs, they will still be extremely hot when I put on anything over 6 CERMLs.

The general balancing could stay in the area where it is now for all I care. The problem is that the worst offenders were dealt with, but only on the Clan side. Thunderbolts and Stalkers are incredibly overquirked and it must be fixed. New general quirk pass? Why not. From my point of view not much work needs to be done but hey, if they nerf the biggest IS offenders that have been incredibly OP now for half a year, why not.

[sycocys]

reign, on 14 September 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

Were in phase 1 of a long re balancing... If you really want to assist, log on make notes of your favorite items.. how it performs... then go into the forums on those chassis and comment on what you would like to see.

The problem is we had no idea that this wasn't anything less than their first iteration of the full re-balance. If they had been upfront and told us - "We need you to test out this new sensor range/decay/communications system." then the results would have been wildly different.

[reign]

sycocys, on 14 September 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

The problem is we had no idea that this wasn't anything less than their first iteration of the full re-balance. If they had been upfront and told us - "We need you to test out this new sensor range/decay/communications system." then the results would have been wildly different.

https://www.reddit.c...t_here_6pm_pst/

Octopack: Do you have any news on new weapons, new packs, AI being featured. Also what about new quirks?

• Looking at a complete top to bottom rebalance of all mechs in game. Will not be released in increments but all at once. Multiple PTS and wont be released until community is happy with it

[sycocys]

^ Which is exactly what we had expected to see.

[reign]

sycocys, on 14 September 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

^ Which is exactly what we had expected to see.

Right were getting it currently. we got the 1st iteration Plus a forum specificity for every single chassis in the game to comment on.

It was announced in Townhall that it would be a process months ago, which was transcribed and made available via youtube. Posted here and on reddit as well as Facebook and twitter..

Do you need a personal email telling you as well? ... come on man.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

sycocys, on 14 September 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

Makes a world of difference if you actually communicate with your players.

Makes more a world of difference when you play your game

[Josef Koba]

JC Daxion, on 14 September 2015 - 02:54 AM, said:

Weapon quirks. The one quirk they need to dump all together is velocity, and burn times. to me they make weapons play to different for the exact same thing. Heat is one thing, Recharge is another. Once your hot you are waiting anyway, and before that it will just make you get hot faster, but how you use the weapons is not really changed.

But when you change velocity, you are screwing with timing from mech to mech. You could need 5 different lead times at the same range for the same weapon on 5 different mechs. Burn time is sorta the same.. One mech you can turn much sooner, it just makes the weapons play do different and that much harder to balance.

From a logical, realistic stand point, ballistic velocity differences between mechs never made that much sense to me. My AC20 somehow propels slugs faster in my whatever than in my other whatever? Does it have more propellant in the rounds by virtue of being on one chassis over another? I don't know. Duration for lasers I guess is a smaller pill to swallow; maybe Mech A is just more efficient from an energy perspective. But in any case, I've never had a problem with adjusting to the differences in velocities between mechs in terms of lead time. Some rounds fly significantly faster on some mechs than others, but I've never had a problem adjusting. I guess I didn't even consider this as a thing pilots worried about.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

JohnnyWayne, on 14 September 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

It was always about the PTS not live. I dont know why it was communicated in that strange way.

ah so Russ was lying when he flat out stated it was delayed because of a hardware bug so it wouldnt be put out on the 22nd but was delayed to the 6th.

interesting way to look at it

[JohnnyWayne]

sycocys, on 14 September 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

The problem is we had no idea that this wasn't anything less than their first iteration of the full re-balance. If they had been upfront and told us - "We need you to test out this new sensor range/decay/communications system." then the results would have been wildly different.

Oooh no. We thought this would be the first iteration. Not a test before the first iteration.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 September 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

ah so Russ was lying when he flat out stated it was delayed because of a hardware bug so it wouldnt be put out on the 22nd but was delayed to the 6th.

interesting way to look at it

Let me fix that for you: It was always about PTS, not live (or production or the game you play when you log into MWOs regular client)

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 14 September 2015 - 06:33 AM.

[reign]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 September 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

ah so Russ was lying when he flat out stated it was delayed because of a hardware bug so it wouldnt be put out on the 22nd but was delayed to the 6th.

interesting way to look at it

What, the hardware bug was a 2 day delay, LOL.

They had not even finished compiling the excel spreadsheet before last week.

[sycocys]

reign, on 14 September 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

Right were getting it currently. we got the 1st iteration Plus a forum specificity for every single chassis in the game to comment on.

It was announced in Townhall that it would be a process months ago, which was transcribed and made available via youtube. Posted here and on reddit as well as Facebook and twitter..

Do you need a personal email telling you as well? ... come on man.

Did you even read the thing you quoted? This was supposed to be the complete balance pass right from the get go. Which is what we were told going in, just as you quoted it. It wasn't supposed to be - here is our new sensor system, we'll try to balance the rest later.

[Kira Onime]

Maybe, just maybe, if the hole thing was actually better explained, this could of went on much better.
Push it back a couple of more days if it was needed and write a novel about what these changes are about, how they work and so on.

Communication was very very poor.

[reign]

sycocys, on 14 September 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

Did you even read the thing you quoted? This was supposed to be the complete balance pass right from the get go. Which is what we were told going in, just as you quoted it. It wasn't supposed to be - here is our new sensor system, we'll try to balance the rest later.

Wait What!?!.... The whole source also talks about role warfare (which would be sensors) and testing the rebalance of quirks including ecm quirks, sensor quirks and everything.... not just armor and weapon quirks...

wow... seriously dude lay off the salt..

[reign]

http://mwomercs.com/...ic-test-updated

Hmmmm... add in the full 6/25 townhall and the 9/10 town hall which was available via Youtube, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter and here...

I mean I guess we should suggest personal emails to everyone.

Edited by reign, 14 September 2015 - 06:48 AM.

[DONTOR]

Isn't that the whole reason the majority of i.s. mechs have laser quirks, or the whole reason for quirks at all, to slightly buff certain weapons on a given chassis?

[JC Daxion]

Lostdragon, on 14 September 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:

Edit: Cleaned up. As you can see from their Roadmap they did not plan to do several iterations of this balance pass. They planned to put it on the PTS in early September and go live next week, just like I said.

The game is in flux, and has been since it launched.. The last quirk test, had how many passes? Now people are worried that this was final and no feedback was needed and it was going to be pushed out.. Especially after they been talking about it for months, and made new forums for each mech? Seems to me like people are jumping the gun big time. And even more obvious things were going to take longer than the road map, just like every other thing has.. But honestly i don't put much stock into those things.. Programming, things always pop up that makes things take longer. It's just a fact of programming. If you think other wise ya never did it. Its the reason why games are always cutting things, or they are getting pushed. I can't think of a single game ever that came out early..... though i am not sure why they do give such optimistic time frames. It seems like it just makes some people mad, while the others don't really care and say take as long as you need. Those few that get mad make a ton of noise though, and will cry about it on just about any game forum they can think of..

To me this game since launch has been a work in progress, FTP games, especially smaller ones take much time to mature. AAA games take 4-5 years.. People want this game to be AAA but have no patients to wait. (2 years of what is basically open beta launch) Hardly a long time. On top of that, we have been playing the game since it started with one map and 4 mechs, the year before?.. It's pretty obvious to me it was going to need tons of balance changed and game updates..

Not sure why people that don't wanna roll with the punches, and see how it ends up would even bother playing something you know is going to change, and probably by a good amount.


Is this the right change? I dunno.. But i like they are trying something else, as the quirk system seamed a bit outta wack. Now making mechs move different, and changing structure, plus perhaps adding armor.. It could be a great change. Sure they need some more weapon balance, but if all of this moves us closer in the long run i'm all for it.

It also sounds like they did a ton of back end stat tracking changes to see how mechs perform, and i'm sure that will help in the future. I'm looking for a game that has single player, and great pvp 5-8 years down the road from a crowd funded launch.. Just like i am hoping for a great game from star citizen or Gal Civ III maybe around 2017.. Todays games take years to get right.. this isn't the 90's when a small team makes a pixel game.. It's just the facts of how deep games are..

Heck.. I finally can pick up starcraft II this nov.. that's been 5+ years since launch, and i only waited for that since 98... I think i can handle some rocky steps in a game that involves giant robots..

But i will say, it is funny listening to people talk about this game about how bad it is or out of balance.. It almost makes me wonder if anyone even played Mech III or IV, because they were so far from balanced it wasn't even funny. Mech III you could leg a mech in seconds and it was over, and IV had a few good mechs, but over all, they had a few over powered ones and then a bunch of ones that you couldn't even play outside of pve.. Maybe there are some balance mods around, But i know that game was far from balanced.. though it was kinda fun when i did go play on a public server.

But honestly, this game is far better as far as game play goes then the previous.. Is it perfect? No way, but i have hopes it will be added on in all areas. SO far it is much improved over when i started, and improved over last summer when clans launched.. So quirks didn't work as they first rolled out.. I'd rather them try and re-balance, and try something new than just Axe the whole thing

[ApolloKaras]

Kira_Onime, on 14 September 2015 - 06:42 AM, said:

Maybe, just maybe, if the hole thing was actually better explained, this could of went on much better.
Push it back a couple of more days if it was needed and write a novel about what these changes are about, how they work and so on.

Communication was very very poor.

This.

The only thing that was said was HEY Check out our new balance wat?

There were no notes showing what the detection ranges were of the different chassis, there were no numbers showing us what the baseline was/were. Sure I don't mind that they are trying new things but NGNG can't comeback and say " oh they get flak for not trying new things", no they get flak for not communicating anything. How am I to know what exactly I'm testing if I don't know how the numbers have changed?

[sycocys]

reign, on 14 September 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

https://www.reddit.c...t_here_6pm_pst/

Octopack: Do you have any news on new weapons, new packs, AI being featured. Also what about new quirks?

• Looking at a complete top to bottom rebalance of all mechs in game. Will not be released in increments but all at once. Multiple PTS and wont be released until community is happy with it

Here, so you don't have to look up half the page to find your own quote - note the important part where it explicitly tells us it will not be released in increments. That is what we were expecting, not a pre-test for the re-balance -- which most people would actually have been just fine with IF they had communicated that this wasn't the full balance pass we were told to be expecting.

[reign]

sycocys, on 14 September 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

Here, so you don't have to look up half the page to find your own quote - note the important part where it explicitly tells us it will not be released in increments. That is what we were expecting, not a pre-test for the re-balance -- which most people would actually have been just fine with IF they had communicated that this wasn't the full balance pass we were told to be expecting.

Ok you really need to go back and look at the parts of quirks that were talked about in the Role warfare sections of the town halls. The sensors were a big part of that. Yeah they don't work. I get it.. But lets concentrate on this part of the quote as well.

• Multiple PTS and wont be released until community is happy with it
  

[JC Daxion]

Josef Koba, on 14 September 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

But in any case, I've never had a problem with adjusting to the differences in velocities between mechs in terms of lead time. Some rounds fly significantly faster on some mechs than others, but I've never had a problem adjusting. I guess I didn't even consider this as a thing pilots worried about.

Maybe you just have better aim than me... Or play similar mechs.. But i swear it gives me fits.. (i also play a lot of different mechs so that could be part of it) the PPC's gave me more trouble than the AC's, but mainly because i run ac-20's or 10's and fire from closer range more often than not. AC5's ya can just keep firing and adjust.. But those PPC's and ERPPC's get hot.. and missing sucks!