144 replies to this topic

[KuroNyra]

pwnface, on 06 November 2015 - 02:11 AM, said:

That means you missed part of your alpha, let alone not putting all the damage on CT.

Hahaha, no.
An AFK Artic Cheetah? Last one alive on his team? Right in front of him? At 30 meter? Everything on the CT with only some SRM hitting the sides?
Sorry but no. I did not miss, and that guy took me 3 freaking alpha to be at least cored red.

[pwnface]

Random Carnage, on 06 November 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

You're blurring your concepts a bit, but I'll not get into epeen waving.

Your argument is unusual. You focus on the red assaults because of their threat level, but you won't defend your own teams assaults against the red light roll?

I will back myself against any other Assault on the field. Keep the red lights off me, and let me do my job.

If you are in a position to choose whether you shoot at enemy assaults or enemy lights you should almost always shoot the assaults first. It's not really a matter of not defending your teammates, 3 enemy assaults will kill your entire team much more quickly than 3 lights. ALWAYS remove the biggest threat first if you have a choice.

[Random Carnage]

pwnface, on 06 November 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

You're telling me you shoot at firestarters and arctic cheetahs before the Dakka Dire chewing up your team? Lights are literally the lowest priority targets on the battlefield because they have the least amount of firepower and typically take a longer time to kill than mediums.

See, this right here is what I mean about people putting words in your mouth.

I don't seem to recal saying I would ignore a Dire to chase a light. I said that if a light is shooting me in the back, it gets my attn. If I ignore it, I'm dead in 2 seconds with my back shot out. If you chase it away for me, I can focus my guns on your red Dire.

[pwnface]

KuroNyra, on 06 November 2015 - 02:35 AM, said:

Hahaha, no.
An AFK Artic Cheetah? Last one alive on his team? Right in front of him? At 30 meter? Everything on the CT with only some SRM hitting the sides?
Sorry but no. I did not miss, and that guy took me 3 freaking alpha to be at least cored red.

An Arctic Cheetah has a maximum of 40 CT armor and 20 CT structure. Discounting your SRMs which may or may not have hit your 4xml + 2xLL deal 38 damage an alpha strike. You should absolutely kill an arctic cheetah that is AFK with 2 shots if you didn't miss. I don't know what to tell you bud.

[Random Carnage]

It's unusual for lasers not to register, but I've seen it happen with AC's from time to time. It is better than it was, but still some odd stuff happening with hit reg.

As for PPC's, well just fire and pray to the RNG gods that it doesn't just pass right through them, or get snagged on the dead pixel you have on your monitor...

[pwnface]

Random Carnage, on 06 November 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

See, this right here is what I mean about people putting words in your mouth.

I don't seem to recal saying I would ignore a Dire to chase a light. I said that if a light is shooting me in the back, it gets my attn. If I ignore it, I'm dead in 2 seconds with my back shot out. If you chase it away for me, I can focus my guns on your red Dire.

You are changing the argument entirely. Our entire discussion has been about what mech to focus first between a DWF and a light mech. Obviously, if a light mech is in the process of killing you, you need to defend yourself. Just as if an enemy DWF is killing you, you should probably focus on killing him first.

When we say something is a "priority target" we mean if you see a light mech and an assault mech walking toward you on the battlefield, which one do you shoot at first. Unless a light mech is ALREADY on top of you and in the process of killing you, you should absolutely focus enemy assault mechs down first.

Now if you have a DWF shooting you in the face and an ACH shooting you in the @ss, you are in a terrible position and are f*cked pretty much no matter what you do.

[Random Carnage]

No argument here. I agree with everything you just said. Why couldn't you have said that 20 posts ago?

Edited by Random Carnage, 06 November 2015 - 02:52 AM.

[Random Carnage]

By chasing down and eliminating the red fatties, while they are doing the same to yours, you've effectively judged their fat pilots to be better than yours as you've traded the loss of your own assaults to get theirs. Big call. I know that I can shred most Assaults and heavies I can engage 1v1, then move on to the next. Too many times, I never get the chance.

[pwnface]

Random Carnage, on 06 November 2015 - 03:00 AM, said:

By chasing down and eliminating the red fatties, while they are doing the same to yours, you've effectively judged their fat pilots to be better than yours as you've traded the loss of your own assaults to get theirs. Big call. I know that I can shred most Assaults and heavies I can engage 1v1, then move on to the next. Too many times, I never get the chance.

Sure, getting left behind in a slow assault sucks but it happens frequently in solo queue. Reminding your fellow pugs not to ditch you sometimes works but you are kind of at their mercy. I typically will run a fast BLR or BNC in solo queue over a dire so I don't have to rely on team as much to protect me.

[Widowmaker1981]

FupDup, on 05 November 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

And yet here you are, asking for your very own insta-win button over EVERYTHING the moment you click an assault mech in your mechlab before a match.

Double standard is double.

Either PGI need to remove 100% of all tonnage restrictions in the game, or they need to make assaults worth the tonnage you pay for them.

If im playing a NBT match (5-8 pilots, 300-500 tons randomly) it SHOULD be viable to bring 5 assaults and have an equal chance of winning against 8 lighter mechs. that is NOT the case, if you bring less than max pilots you are ********.

2 locusts > 1 Dire wolf. 1 Dire SHOULD be = to 5 locusts if tonnage limitations are a thing.

[Setun]

Alistair Winter, on 05 November 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

Hell, you can just bring 3xCSSRM6 on your Dire Wolf as backup weapons, if you want. It's 10% of your total weight and it basically lets you kill any light mech within 360 meters by just aiming in their general direction. That's a pretty nice crutch for people who don't have the aiming skills to leg those lights.

I'd say using streaks as a backup weapon is less of a crutch and more of a 'it's one of the few weapons that does the full intended damage on the little ******** when you hit them' kind of deal. I've hit locusts and other lights with an AC20 to their side torso on my HBK-4G and it didn't register at all, but streaks will **** them up every time.

[kongman]

FupDup, on 05 November 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

And yet here you are, asking for your very own insta-win button over EVERYTHING the moment you click an assault mech in your mechlab before a match.

Double standard is double.

no , i just want them to have to Armour and be able to soak damge like they should be able to do

[TWIAFU]

kongman, on 05 November 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

i love assaults , but its just painful to play them , you cant play them like they are supposed to be played , all you do is get left behind , then when you do get to battle you die in 2 sec .

That is not a problem with the Assault class, that is a problem with the pilot.

[adamts01]

My thoughts:

Assaults should be slower but have much more armor and firepower. They need to be special, right now they're like much slower, easier to hit heavies with a little more armor and firepower. I don't drive them but concerning equally skilled pilots with the same range loadout, an assault should beat anything but another assault of a group.

Cheetahs, as well as many other lights, have god-like hit boxes. If you haven't learned to shoot legs and ignore their CT by now, even when they're standing still, you deserved to be worked over in your assault.

With any decent assault build, two decent shots will take any light's leg off. Take your time and make those two shots count.

Most importantly, if you are with your team then you will never have this problem. The assaults I destroy in my Cheetah are trying to LRM or snipe from the back or flanks like noobs.

[GreyNovember]

adamts01, on 06 November 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

My thoughts:

Assaults should be slower but have much more armor and firepower. They need to be special, right now they're like much slower, easier to hit heavies with a little more armor and firepower. I don't drive them but concerning equally skilled pilots with the same range loadout, an assault should beat anything but another assault of a group.

Cheetahs, as well as many other lights, have god-like hit boxes. If you haven't learned to shoot legs and ignore their CT by now, even when they're standing still, you deserved to be worked over in your assault.

With any decent assault build, two decent shots will take any light's leg off. Take your time and make those two shots count.

Most importantly, if you are with your team then you will never have this problem. The assaults I destroy in my Cheetah are trying to LRM or snipe from the back or flanks like noobs.

Your first paragraph wants them to be slow as a disadvantage, but then goes on to say only an assault should beat an assault, disregarding that advantage. You've basically made it so that lights can't compete with assaults at all.

Cheetahs, Firestarters, and Spiders are the only ones with "Godlike" boxes. That hardly qualifies as many.

All of these decent builds need to be pinpoint, front loaded. Otherwise we have fattie pilots coming in, complaining their 98 Alpha didn't core a light; neglecting to mention they were using lasers and SRMs. And you need to take your lag into account when aiming. This is easier said than done.

I agree with your assault sentiment. Head on, there shouldn't be a contest between a hundred tonner and anything below with the same range profile.

But that should come with the agility of a Dire as baseline. Assaults are not nimble, save for a few oddball designs. Just like how all lights are not meant to be weak, weaponless scouts meant to stare at the enemy team for "recon".

[SgtMagor]

hoping the changes PGI is making to some mechs will at least stop the Atlas from being a paper tiger. which always had those gimped ST's and weapon structure.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Again, people are mistaking bad hit registration with light mechs taking hits too well...

If i hit a light mech with my invasion whale. It goes boom...or loses whatever I hit....

As primarily an assault mech driver I am perfectly ok with lights giving assaults the circle jerk. They are ankle biters. that is thier job picking off stragglers that arent maneuverable enough to keep guns on. it is down to the skill of the assault pilot to defend himself properly in that situation.

It is also the job of the teams mediums to murder lights..you have more armor and more weapons to bully lights and enough speed to keep up for the most part. If your teams mediums are doing thier jobs you wont be getting soloed by lights.

I see no problem here...besides the bad hit detection.

[oldradagast]

Once the PTS changes go into play, they'll be blind and useless, so yeah...

[Widowmaker1981]

oldradagast, on 06 November 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

Once the PTS changes go into play, they'll be blind and useless, so yeah...

Im assuming the complaint is about the PTS. Assaults dont suck in the live game.

[Inkarnus]

Khobai, on 05 November 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

PTR changes make assaults even worse

they lose most of their maneuverability, lose a lot of dissipation and heatcap, and gain nothing to really make up for it

yeah total useless Kappa
(shitton of more HP they got on PTS)
Damage sponge Confirmed ! if that not lowers TTK idk what :&
http://www.reddit.co...ver_1500_hp_11/

Edited by Inkarnus, 06 November 2015 - 06:42 AM.