160 replies to this topic

[Padre Balistique]

Spadejack, on 20 December 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

LOL again... this one post made me laugh so much... LOL

You need to learn what BT is all about! And get yourself into a clan unit, see for yourself how tough is CW now and how OP IS has been (even before the patch)!

If you are one of those IS fan boys, make us all a favor, quit this game and go play counter strike or battlefield or something, since you seem to like FPS "balanced" games...

I call out the stupidity of this kind of response in my post, but boy howdy you didn't let that stop you one bit did it.

Thanks for your indepth factual analyses of "lol lrn2pla nub"

Also thanks for proving how ******** the "clan are weak, IS OP" argument is, as these types of replies to fact and evidence continually prove.

Edited by Padre Balistique, 20 December 2015 - 11:08 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

10 vs 20? are you kidding me? That's ludicrous. You're asking for battle reenactments, not balanced games. 95% of people on the clan side are clan players, not clanners. I'd wager only 5% are such hardcore role-players that they're fine with dying in a blaze of glory repetitively because it jives with the lore.

In short yes they would be able to complain, and they'd have plenty of right to.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Spadejack, on 12 December 2015 - 01:44 AM, said:

How about trying to keep this discussion a serious one? I tend to see that IS players are biased and even agressive to any suggestion made regarding the balance! And i bet ive been playing this game way longer than you. So, as i said earlier, ive played IS and Clan, have about almost every mech on the game mastered, and i realize that the facts are that if i want to go easy mode, i get IS mechs! Read the suggestions i made, and than give me your own personal opinion

Well here's a die hard clanner saying neither clan nor IS is OP. One may be better at the moment as a whole, but I wouldn't say OP.

PS: If you respond to inflammatory comments with yelling and claims of your superiority, people who don't already know and like you are going to be less likely to listen to your suggestions.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 20 December 2015 - 11:31 AM.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 20 December 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

10 vs 20? are you kidding me? That's ludicrous. You're asking for battle reenactments, not balanced games. 95% of people on the clan side are clan players, not clanners. I'd wager only 5% are such hardcore role-players that they're fine with dying in a blaze of glory repetitively because it jives with the lore.

In short yes they would be able to complain, and they'd have plenty of right to.

Jack, that was a suggestion! 10 vs 20, with unnerfed clan tech as it used to be, would be quite a chalange indeed. 10 vs 12 could still work, considering some of the suggestions i made in the beggining, like resuply bases scatered in the map to suply IS forces only.

[Russhuster]

@Hydro


SOME Chassis like the timber are still usable even with all its nerfs
But did you play a Direwhale recently? after the 20% agility nerf? a Sumoner? a Gargoyle ? a Nova? A Ferret an Mist Lynx?

I do agree few Chassis are in use like the Ebon Jaguar, the Cheetah, The Timberwolf and the Crow, even some Helbringer or KitFox are seen but thats it then what about the rest?

If Comp teas use 99% IS tech CW is buried there always be that 1 % diehard clanners

But then again
even when a Timbie is nerfed to 1 ton wepon capacity and no heat capacity ion the heat sinks there always be such telling us Clan is op

Edited by Russhuster, 20 December 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 20 December 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Well here's a die hard clanner saying neither clan nor IS is OP. One may be better at the moment as a whole, but I wouldn't say OP.

PS: If you respond to inflammatory comments with yelling and claims of your superiority, people who don't already know and like you are going to be less likely to listen to your suggestions.

Im sorry to disagree with you, but the fact is that IS is indeed so OP. Been doing CW, and the fact is that overall performance of the team dropped down alot. Against another IS team, will loose i would say 75% out of the times. Only against pugs we can have a chance.
And upgrading my marauders, it was so easy compared to the IIC mechs now for example... and my opinion seems to be the same all around some of the clan units i usually go around.
By the way, wich unit are you in?

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Spadejack, on 13 December 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

PGI must realize that this game has a huge lore behind it, but if it wants to just ignore the lore itself, for balance purpose, than it must give the clans the chance to do the same as in an IS mech, like upgrades... and, why not give everyone the same tech? To clans and IS? The diference between clans and IS would be purelly stectic.

This is a false dilemma. Why do you insist that PGI must either follow the lore near-completely or throw it all away? Is it really that uncomfortable that they're going for something in between?

[AbyssalTyrant]

Spadejack, on 20 December 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Again, you make me laugh so much LOL
As i said, quit this game, go to some other game you seem to deem balanced. We need to make stupid people like yourself to leave this game.

Almost every person that has posted in this thread has posted how immensely ****ing stupid your proposed changes are. If anything the one who needs to find a new game is you .

[arminxcobra]

the fact that clan heat syncs have less power (1.1 ) than an IS single heat syncs makes you wonder if the battletech was actually vice versa and the inner sphere left the clans and developed their technology ! everything in this game is upside down ! IS has more power than the clans !
i dont care if most people in a game are inner sphere fans ! the clans are supposed to have better technology than you inner sphere guys ! why ? because they didnt destroy each other .like barbarians ( caugh inner spheres ) to get their hands on mech factories and find the leader house ! thats exacly why kerensky and star league left ! because of you guys who couldent find a solution to solve your problems ! instead you started the succession wars who destroyed your technology up to stone age era whereas we clans developed our technology ! if u got a problem with that join the clans ! if u dont ! accept the inner sphere as they are not buffing them until they are so much more powerful than the clans that some clanners wanna leave and join IS !
NOW LISTEN PGI ! YEA YOU PGI ! AND ESPECIALLY YOU RUSSEL BULLOCK : thanks to your god damn clan nerfs one of my friends who i had deep respect for him and learnt everything from him about clan history is gonna join the inner sphere ! is this what your talented devs are capable of ? are you that genius that the only solution who popped into your head is : LETS NERF THE MOST ADVANCED FACTIONS IN THE GAME AND MAKE THE LEAST ADVANCED FACTIONS AKA : INNER SPHERE MORE ADVANCED !
if thats the best you can do then you just showed everybody that you dont care about the battletech game and the community ! you just care about making money by putting more and more inner sphere mechs into sale and nerfing the clans so that everybody is forced to play those inner sphere mechs and you get to make your money and more money and so on !
thats all i wanted to say ! either you understood it or you are just taking me ( a clanner ) and the other clanners as idiots and only take the inner sphere fans as humans !
the clans need a lot of changes PGI ! AND I MEAN ALOT

[AbyssalTyrant]

arminxcobra, on 20 December 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

the fact that clan heat syncs have less power (1.1 ) than an IS single heat syncs makes you wonder if the battletech was actually vice versa and the inner sphere left the clans and developed their technology ! everything in this game is upside down ! IS has more power than the clans !
i dont care if most people in a game are inner sphere fans ! the clans are supposed to have better technology than you inner sphere guys ! why ? because they didnt destroy each other .like barbarians ( caugh inner spheres ) to get their hands on mech factories and find the leader house ! thats exacly why kerensky and star league left ! because of you guys who couldent find a solution to solve your problems ! instead you started the succession wars who destroyed your technology up to stone age era whereas we clans developed our technology ! if u got a problem with that join the clans ! if u dont ! accept the inner sphere as they are not buffing them until they are so much more powerful than the clans that some clanners wanna leave and join IS !
NOW LISTEN PGI ! YEA YOU PGI ! AND ESPECIALLY YOU RUSSEL BULLOCK : thanks to your god damn clan nerfs one of my friends who i had deep respect for him and learnt everything from him about clan history is gonna join the inner sphere ! is this what your talented devs are capable of ? are you that genius that the only solution who popped into your head is : LETS NERF THE MOST ADVANCED FACTIONS IN THE GAME AND MAKE THE LEAST ADVANCED FACTIONS AKA : INNER SPHERE MORE ADVANCED !
if thats the best you can do then you just showed everybody that you dont care about the battletech game and the community ! you just care about making money by putting more and more inner sphere mechs into sale and nerfing the clans so that everybody is forced to play those inner sphere mechs and you get to make your money and more money and so on !
thats all i wanted to say ! either you understood it or you are just taking me ( a clanner ) and the other clanners as idiots and only take the inner sphere fans as humans !
the clans need a lot of changes PGI ! AND I MEAN ALOT

Are you brain damaged? Where in that rambling wall of text do you think you made an actual point?

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Spadejack, on 20 December 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Im sorry to disagree with you, but the fact is that IS is indeed so OP. Been doing CW, and the fact is that overall performance of the team dropped down alot. Against another IS team, will loose i would say 75% out of the times. Only against pugs we can have a chance.
And upgrading my marauders, it was so easy compared to the IIC mechs now for example... and my opinion seems to be the same all around some of the clan units i usually go around.
By the way, wich unit are you in?

*shrugs* I pilot Nova's and Summoners and tend to hang around in the quickplay queue. I have a great time there and achieve a solid 500 dmg, give or take 100, per match. When I go to CW I tend to do quite well.

I've never once thought to myself that the IS was overpowered, and havn't recently gotten the impression that clans were OP either. Maybe it's because I don't mess around with meta builds, I build my own stuff.

I'm a part of CWI but I also hang out with Epsi frequently. I'm not sure that's relevant though. I hear the same groaning from some people in CWI about how clan mechs are broken now, just as I hear the opposite groaning from Pugs in PUG drops (Clams OP). What I don't hear near as frequently are calls for lore-based balance. Now there are some who do call for it, I could give you a name off the top of my head, but I'm not going to pull that person into this.

I personally find it unrealistic for PGI, bad for business, and bad for the player-base. I want this game to live on so I can continue to use my Nova for years to come. That's where my motivation stems from, player-base stability. Not perfect fairness, not perfect balance, not trueness to the lore, but a fun environment which will retain players... so I can shoot them >.>

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 20 December 2015 - 12:05 PM.

[arminxcobra]

AbyssalTyrant, on 20 December 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Are you brain damaged? Where in that rambling wall of text do you think you made an actual point?

AbyssalTyrant, on 20 December 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Are you brain damaged? Where in that rambling wall of text do you think you made an actual point?

i think you are the one who has brain damage that can't understand english ! THE CLANS NEED CHANGES ! IS THAT HARDER OR SHOULD I MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND ?

[AbyssalTyrant]

I don't know , maybe you should use more caps. Just in case.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Spadejack, on 16 December 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

we could limit more for clan teams (lets say... 50?) while IS teams could bigger (why not 100?). That would solve alot of the population problem.

No it wouldn't. IT'd be a dent against premades and 12 mans, but it wouldn't increase the IS population if the average player decided they wanted to go clan. Personally I find the whole idea of unit size caps to be ridiculous. People who want to stick together will find ways around unit caps.

It isn't the same I know, but it makes me chuckle because it almost feels like a dev walking in the room and saying "Hey! you guys can't all be friends! It's bad for balance!"

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 20 December 2015 - 12:19 PM.

[Alteran]

AbyssalTyrant, on 19 December 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

All right you convinced me you can have pre nerf clans back. As long as the clan players have to go through all the stupid "honor" rules they had to go through in the lore . Cause hey that's battletech , right?

Seriously do people actually think because the TT rules said one thing that it would work outside TT? Even HBS said they will focus on making a good VIDEO GAME first and foremost as well as picking a pre clan era.

If you honestly think that people wont just find something else to play if a game is massively unbalanced I dont even know what to say.

Convince, no. You have your POV and I have mine. Tying to convince one another, especially when one has strong convictions is pointless, but arguing ones point has merit. So...

Read deeper and try to see what is being said. IF PGI wanted a balanced game, they needed to change the mechanics of the drops to 'balance' out the IS and Clans, IF they wanted IS vs Clan tech in MWO. IF PGI wanted a truly balanced Mechwarrior game, they needed to keep it either IS vs IS or Clan vs Clan, not mix it together.

This mismashing of tech and quirks have destroyed anything that we've played prior in MW 1-4. In MWO, there will always be a Meta. There will always be a favored mech, like the Timberwolf. PGI can nerf the crap out of the TBR all they want and in the end people will still run it regardless. PGI can quirk the Summoner as much as they want and people will still refuse to run it. If PGI made IS tech and vice versa Clan tech available to both sides right now for CW, many Clan units would be running IS meta mechs to compete.

My point is fairly simple, MWO will never be balanced because the tech was never meant to be balanced. Quirking mechs or weapons in the way in which they have, doesn't balance anything, it just creates another meta build to exploit.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Night Thastus, on 16 December 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

Funny, a post was just made claiming the exact opposite of this one!

So, I'll post my exact same post, again!

Oh look, another pointless IS Vs Clan post!

I'll get the popcorn. You guys are providing the salt, right?

Yes

[Padre Balistique]

Alteran, on 20 December 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Convince, no. You have your POV and I have mine. Tying to convince one another, especially when one has strong convictions is pointless, but arguing ones point has merit. So...

Read deeper and try to see what is being said. IF PGI wanted a balanced game, they needed to change the mechanics of the drops to 'balance' out the IS and Clans, IF they wanted IS vs Clan tech in MWO. IF PGI wanted a truly balanced Mechwarrior game, they needed to keep it either IS vs IS or Clan vs Clan, not mix it together.

This mismashing of tech and quirks have destroyed anything that we've played prior in MW 1-4. In MWO, there will always be a Meta. There will always be a favored mech, like the Timberwolf. PGI can nerf the crap out of the TBR all they want and in the end people will still run it regardless. PGI can quirk the Summoner as much as they want and people will still refuse to run it. If PGI made IS tech and vice versa Clan tech available to both sides right now for CW, many Clan units would be running IS meta mechs to compete.

My point is fairly simple, MWO will never be balanced because the tech was never meant to be balanced. Quirking mechs or weapons in the way in which they have, doesn't balance anything, it just creates another meta build to exploit.

There is only two ways to balance the game.

One PGI refuses to do, and that's via numbers. 10v12 or 8v12.

The other, is to ignore lore (not a bad thing, some has to be ignored for the conversion from turn based table top to First Person Real Time) and normalize the weapons across the board, and buff IS weapons up to where IS weapons can do at least 95% of the clan damage at 95% of the range, so clans can maintain just a miniscule tech advantage as a handwave to lore. Possibly even make the IS XL survive a side torso loss for some debuffs.

Neither of which will happen, one because PGI, one because the clan players will flip their ever loving mind.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Padre Balistique, on 20 December 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

There is only two ways to balance the game.

One PGI refuses to do, and that's via numbers. 10v12 or 8v12.

The other, is to ignore lore (not a bad thing, some has to be ignored for the conversion from turn based table top to First Person Real Time) and normalize the weapons across the board, and buff IS weapons up to where IS weapons can do at least 95% of the clan damage at 95% of the range, so clans can maintain just a miniscule tech advantage as a handwave to lore. Possibly even make the IS XL survive a side torso loss for some debuffs.

Neither of which will happen, one because PGI, one because the clan players will flip their ever loving mind.

That's a false dilemma. You can balance this game with 12 v 12 and different tech-lines. Declaring it wholey impossible is a logical fallacy. A better argument is that such a balance is too difficult for PGI to achieve.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 20 December 2015 - 12:32 PM.

[Padre Balistique]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 20 December 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

That's a false dilemma. You can balance this game with 12 v 12 and different tech-lines. Declaring it wholey impossible is a logical fallacy. A better argument is that such a balance is too difficult for PGI to achieve.

Yes, you can do that by normalizing the weapons so its an even playing field. Which was my second option.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

OZHomerOZ, on 19 December 2015 - 02:38 AM, said:

Seems to me that the higher skilled players win
In my observations

Clans are better at team play and their mechs
IS Mechs better solo and team play

But the holy clan tri still rocks and the IS Wubber wobs rock as well

so its about even

Cheers

/RP freebirth clanner pours another drink /Rp off

"Couldn't have said better my freebirth brother from another human mother.

Padre Balistique, on 20 December 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Yes, you can do that by normalizing the weapons so its an even playing field. Which was my second option.

You can also do it without normalizing the weapons and still have an even playing field, which is why your suggestion is a false dilemma.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 20 December 2015 - 12:36 PM.