158 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

why pgi why!!!!!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=288&l=stock

[MechWarrior3671771]

l)arklight, on 14 January 2016 - 05:37 AM, said:

\No you aren't doing all that because majority of the CW population are still solo queing pug player's.

Uh no. I'm a pretty good authority on what I am doing.

But at least you admit its not working, its not enough. So now what?

One simple idea is to make the que screens of both attacker and defender visible to everyone. That way, a premade looking for a real challenge could find other premades, and solo noobs who don't want to face premades could drop against other solos.

The code is already in place, you just have to make it show up for everyone. No one gets punished, nothing gets nerfed, wait times are not affected. Players would actually self-select what types of groups they want to fight and how long they are willing to wait to find a drop.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 14 January 2016 - 05:59 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Fen Tetsudo, on 14 January 2016 - 05:58 AM, said:

Uh no. I'm a pretty good authority on what I am doing.

[Widowmaker1981]

Raubwurst, on 14 January 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

Well with CW Phase 3 there will be some kind of Group and PUG separation. This will help preventing such outcomes...

Source:

Spoiler

Dont understand how he thinks this wont get abused to hell and back:

Not-So-Great Unit plays CW.
Gets stomped by better unit
rages
splits up into 12 solos
queues up all at once
TA-DAAA! 12 man vs pugs!

Unless they are going to block players in units from playing CW solo? because thats a big no no, and will encourage some people NOT to join units, especially the less skilled units.

[habu86]

Aunoor, on 14 January 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

And what must do a small units with 3-4 players? Just dissolve this unit and go to MS? And what we get at the end? Two big units?

Not at all. They can simply team up with other small units, solos, or even bigger groups in need of more people, in order to form ad-hoc 12 mans. The FRR, HK, and CJF hubs are full of players doing exactly this and it works quite well for them. And, as a side benefit, you get to meet new folks, swap ideas on builds and tactics, and maybe even learn things you'd never expected to (paved road construction techniques come to mind ).

Aunoor, on 14 January 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

And why you think, that player which just want try CW will invest his time and money to unknown mode for him?

The novelty effect? There're plenty CW gameplay videos out there, so they can get a preview of what they'd be in for, if that's what they're wondering about. We're not concerned with keeping new players away from CW forever, merely impressing upon them that they do not yet have the equipment and experience needed to perform and have a good time in CW. Not being elitist or anything, just speaking from experience. I mean, I look back at when I started playing CW and I shudder at how unprepared I was for it.

Honestly, I think the best way to address this would be to address those things that draw unprepared players to CW in the first place, despite the big scary warnings and tales of doom and woe on the forums and reddit. In this regard, all my evidence is anecdotal, but I think the allure of "free" mechbays is what draws folks to it, especially before they join up with a unit, or even just a group they drop with regularly, and get to really experience the fun aspects of CW gameplay.

I've no particularly good solutions to offer for this, as mechbay acquisitions are part of PGI's revenue stream, but I think that really understanding the incentives that draw new players to CW and addressing those root causes that lead to dysfunctional outcomes might get us a lot farther along than simply fencing people out of the game mode, naming and shaming 12-mans, or forbidding pugs and units from ever mixing.

Edited by habu86, 14 January 2016 - 08:44 AM.

[Sandpit]

Platinum Top, on 13 January 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

But that would mean they would have one mech of their own and have to stick to using trails.

I've enjoyed dropping with new players in trial mechs. I'm sorry you feel that it's a detriment to your team.

It's not to mine. We won all the same with more than one player in trial mechs. It's not a requirement to play alongside me in CW or to win so that's on you.

[Mead]

Hell, at this point, half the time I drop into CW nowadays it's to aggravate the players who think they get to control what I do and where I go. Just knowing someone somewhere is keeping their coals glowing over the fact that *gasp* there's a T4 in CW keeps a smile on my face. Sadly the new queue thing is going to make that gesture moot.

The other half is entirely dependent on whether my RL friends are also playing and wanting to do CW.

Otherwise I could take it or leave it.

[Sandpit]

Mead, on 15 January 2016 - 03:53 AM, said:

Hell, at this point, half the time I drop into CW nowadays it's to aggravate the players who think they get to control what I do and where I go. Just knowing someone somewhere is keeping their coals glowing over the fact that *gasp* there's a T4 in CW keeps a smile on my face. Sadly the new queue thing is going to make that gesture moot.

The other half is entirely dependent on whether my RL friends are also playing and wanting to do CW.

Otherwise I could take it or leave it.

There's a difference in "controlling" where you go and working together as a team.

Your Tier rating has nothing to do with it and if you're receiving poor attitudes toward you in CW, I'd hazard to guess that it's due to that kind of attitude regarding "getting told what to do" as opposed to any tier ranking.

[Mead]

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

There's a difference in "controlling" where you go and working together as a team.

Your Tier rating has nothing to do with it and if you're receiving poor attitudes toward you in CW, I'd hazard to guess that it's due to that kind of attitude regarding "getting told what to do" as opposed to any tier ranking.

Right, because there wasn't a whole thread or twelve here about who should get to play CW and who shouldn't, lots of opinions, most of them high as a kite and twice as full of themselves. But yeah. It's probably my fault for being the splash target of unbridled elitepro? Sure, why not. That works for me. I won't be losing any sleep over it.

[Sandpit]

Mead, on 15 January 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Right, because there wasn't a whole thread or twelve here about who should get to play CW and who shouldn't, lots of opinions, most of them high as a kite and twice as full of themselves. But yeah. It's probably my fault for being the splash target of unbridled elitepro? Sure, why not. That works for me. I won't be losing any sleep over it.

Wow
you really should read and learn before you try to use the sarcastic dbag routine. Especially when you're using it against someone who's advocating for better environments for new and solo players in CW and has firmly stated more than once that the idea of solo playerrs being excluded is beyond ridiculous.

That doesn't change the fact that if you drop in CW especially, take the "you're not the boss of me" attitude, and proceed to "do your own thing", you're not going to have a very good CW experience, you're not going to receive any kind of "welcoming" environment from the players on your team, nor are you going to do very well most times.

Take down your indignation a notch or two and actually listen to what's being said sometimes instead of just assuming it's come sort of personal attack against you and whatever belief system you adhere to in regards to a video game.

[Mead]

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

Wow
you really should read and learn before you try to use the sarcastic dbag routine. Especially when you're using it against someone who's advocating for better environments for new and solo players in CW and has firmly stated more than once that the idea of solo playerrs being excluded is beyond ridiculous.

That doesn't change the fact that if you drop in CW especially, take the "you're not the boss of me" attitude, and proceed to "do your own thing", you're not going to have a very good CW experience, you're not going to receive any kind of "welcoming" environment from the players on your team, nor are you going to do very well most times.

Take down your indignation a notch or two and actually listen to what's being said sometimes instead of just assuming it's come sort of personal attack against you and whatever belief system you adhere to in regards to a video game.

Yeah, never mind. None of that is what's going on here. You're taking snark about elitist attitudes found in the forum (ban tier 4s!) and transcribing that to me somehow refusing to play the game as a team member. And that's as far from the truth as it gets.

I said nothing about refusing to team. I was laughing at the idea that the very fact I was playing CW was getting certain people riled up.

But that's okay. We'll both live through this.

[Sandpit]

Mead, on 15 January 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Yeah, never mind. None of that is what's going on here. You're taking snark about elitist attitudes found in the forum (ban tier 4s!) and transcribing that to me somehow refusing to play the game as a team member. And that's as far from the truth as it gets.

I said nothing about refusing to team. I was laughing at the idea that the very fact I was playing CW was getting certain people riled up.

But that's okay. We'll both live through this.

That's part of the problem though

The whole "us vs. them" mentality that even PGI keeps trying to foster. You play and enjoy MWO, assumingly, just like I do. You play CW, just like I do. We both, hopefully, want good fun games out of the experience. So then who is responsible for that?
I welcome and encourage all new players to get involved in CW. It's the only part of the game that lends itself to being able to create a community. It's the only part of the game where you can actually see other players outside of the match itself.

This entire game is built on the premise to keep players segregated and from being able to communicate with one another even in the most basic of forms.

[jaxjace]

Lock them out till they are in tier 3 and have 1000 matches.

[pwnface]

Fen Tetsudo, on 14 January 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

Hard mode? Their is no skill involved in shutting out newbies 48-0. You might as well pick a fight with a crippled kid.

If you think it's so easy, why don't you show us how many times you've gotten 48-0 matches. Beating PUG teams is easy, killing 48 of them without losing 1 is not.

[Mead]

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

That's part of the problem though

The whole "us vs. them" mentality that even PGI keeps trying to foster. You play and enjoy MWO, assumingly, just like I do. You play CW, just like I do. We both, hopefully, want good fun games out of the experience. So then who is responsible for that?
I welcome and encourage all new players to get involved in CW. It's the only part of the game that lends itself to being able to create a community. It's the only part of the game where you can actually see other players outside of the match itself.

This entire game is built on the premise to keep players segregated and from being able to communicate with one another even in the most basic of forms.

Probably one of the reasons the forum is so toxic on certain topics, there's no other outlet for frustration or acting better than someone.

Just glad I made T3 before someone had a stroke.

[Lupis Volk]

Platinum Top, on 13 January 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

Oh yeah, I forgot there was the cadet bonus.

No one expects the cadet bonus!

[Appogee]

Everybody wrings their hands over new players who ignore the warnings and join CW. Fair enough, MWO certainly needs more players.

But what about the end-game experience for those of us who are experienced players...?

We get dropped with a half a team of clueless noobs, against 12-mans. We spend the first 10 minutes trying to coach noobs on how to play CW (explaining the rules and directing the actual battle strategy), the next 10 minutes despairing as the noobs ignore everything we told them and lose all 4 of their Mechs for almost no damage, and then 5 minutes getting farmed at spawn by 12-mans who say helpful things like "Hur, dropship MVP, git gud".

I spent more than $700 effing dollars on this game. I'm a committed loyal customer. I'm here for the long haul. And I deserve a better end-game experience than this.

The interests of randoms who haven't paid a cent to play, who probably won't be seen again in a month's time, shouldn't supercede the needs of long term paying customers.





PS: Some will say. "Join a unit." Yeah, I did. So now I get to choose between clubbing seals when my team is online, or getting stomped by 12-mans when they're not. "Joining a unit" isn't delivering a viable end game experience for high value customers, either.

Edited by Appogee, 18 January 2016 - 06:14 AM.

[DarklightCA]

Community Warfare and the game in general does need new blood and the experience of veteran player's does also need to be considered as they have been supporting this game for year's and likely spent hundreds of dollar's in that time however PGI can do both.

This game need's to turn regular queue into a better casual experience by fine tuning the tier system into a actual skill based match maker and reduce group sizes to 4 player's with the tonnage rules included so group's can't just bring a ton of assault's. I've watched new player's live stream this game and I've helped them out through twitch chat. The tier system as it stands does a pretty good job at keeping new player's grouped up with new player's.

They get instant games and are always playing against player's of equal skill but beyond that the tier system is a pretty big joke and once those new player's level up their tier they are going to be getting massively different games. Going from slow and drawn out games to fast paced where mech's go down real quick as beyond tier 5 and tier 4 it seems like player's of a variety of skills and performance always still get matched together in the same tier's and match making.

If the tier system was more skill based and match maker was based on putting tier's together when those new player's tiered up, they could do so in a more gradual experience of skill level rather than going against new player's to getting your legs blown off in a few seconds and going "Wtf happened, this isn't the same game I was playing earlier in tier 5 and tier 4".

As regular queue turned into a better casual experience to level and grind mech's in that would have a better skill based match maker to keep it casual in your skill level. Community Warfare can then be turned into the actual end game content it was always meant to be. First of all taking step's like disabling trial mech selection in drop deck's to prevent brand new player's from instantly joining it. Not getting rid of solo queuing but putting a much bigger emphasis on grouped queuing and the Unit planetary conquest portion of the game mode.

Adding a in-game or on the website easily visible from the homepage a recruitment hub that better allows unit's especially smaller unit's the ability to pick up these new player's and or solo queue player's and reforge them to be-able to play Community Warfare against other Unit's.

Adding a more rewarding experience for Unit's to conquer planet's and fight other Unit's like the whole MC generation of planet's PGI plans to add in phase 3. Generally make it a lot more rewarding for player's to play Community Warfare as a Unit so more Unit's will play it and more player's will join a Unit to play it creating a much better Unit vs Unit experience. Not getting rid of solo queue but just making solo queuing less rewarding than group queuing. Playing 'Community' Warfare and opting to not play with a Community should be less rewarding even if that concept will get hate.

Generally turning regular queue into a much more casual and rewarding experience for more casual and lone wolf types to play in as well as a better experience for new player's to grind mech's and cbill's and turning Community Warfare into well, actual 'Community' Warfare. If large unit's are still dominating the map after all that then put out a update that reduces unit sizes but personally I'd rather have that as a last ditch balancing option after all the above is tried because I am not that big of a fan of limiting unit potential but if it creates a better unit vs unit balance in Community Warfare if better small unit recruitment fails than balance would demand it.

Edited by l)arklight, 18 January 2016 - 11:46 AM.

[Commander A9]

Team crushed the opposition.

What's the problem?

Last night, my team had a narrow victory over pugs.

So the matches can go either way. All depends on the players and the mechs and the tactics and the leaders.

Working as intended. Move on to the next battle.

Edited by Commander A9, 18 January 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[Sandpit]

Mead, on 18 January 2016 - 05:30 AM, said:

Probably one of the reasons the forum is so toxic on certain topics, there's no other outlet for frustration or acting better than someone.

Just glad I made T3 before someone had a stroke.

trust me, Tier 3 doesn't get much better lol
Now you get to see all the "mighty" Tier 1 players b*tch about how their team sucks lol