551 replies to this topic

[sneeking]

I get my own locks no problem, you should probably watch for my narks though cause im only carrying either a single 10 or 20 rack.

[Hotthedd]

Fen Tetsudo, on 26 December 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

Still had to deal with an LRM-hater telling my team to deliberately drop locks to grief me.

Try not to confuse that guy with the people giving you good advice here.

[Joe Mallad]

Lyoto Machida, on 26 December 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

This...don't be lazy. Plus, LRMs are really a misnomer in this game. You really shouldn't be using them from 900m out.

and that's BS! They have a range of 1000 meters for a reason lol. And with my range module I can launch them from 1100 meters out. Nothing wrong with that at all.
The problem is most don't understand how or when to use LRMs properly.

I have no problems using them and hitting with hem at 900 to 1100 meters out and helping out my TEAM. And once I'm out or low on LRMs and know I can't be any more help from that range, I close in with my lasers and continue to help my TEAM.

It's not asking much for my team to hold locks with whatever they are battling so I can aid them from distance with a LRM mech. I mean isn't that the main job of a LRM mech... Support? LRM mechs can't support unless we have targets to hit. Sure we can get our own targets and we do when we can. But LRM mechs should also be able to sit back and support from he shadows too. Nothing wrong with that at all.


In fact... I had a game two nights ago and maybe some of my team from that game are reading this now. I was in my Mauler with 4 LRM 10 packs and 2 LLs. I had over 1200 LRMs. Guess what I did? I supported my team with them and got 4 kills with those LRMs and effectively kept the enemy off my guys on the front. And it ended up being me last standing against a Catapult that had no weapons and a raven who both ran and went to cap our base. I had used all my LRMs and jumped Into the fight. I made my way to the base and stopped the cap, killed the Catapult that was on our base and played cat and mouse with the remaining enemy Raven for what felt like forever (great piloting on his end) my back was cored from him and I made sure to keep my back against a wall or my base and ended up killing him after chasing each other around trying to get the killing blow. But my point is as an LRM mech, I know better to rely just in my LRMs and that my role may need to change from support to attacker at any time.

Not very many LRM users comprehend this.

Navid A1, on 26 December 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

If you want to be considered an LRM boat, you need TAG (and optional BAP) and you need to be closer than 500m to your targets. You should be able to maintain locks with your TAG in strafing runs by the enemy and use Target decay module to its best, when you get behind cover again.

First thing wannabe LRM boats should understand is that holding locks means that your team should leave cover and constantly face the target. It is NEVER gonna happen. If your team possess half a brain they should not do what you ask... otherwise they will be killed.
Instead of that, ask your team to provide UAVs if they have them. it has more advantage, it is safe and everyone benefits from those.

a real team would get you locks if you need them. A real team understands that we all have roles and those that would be out on the front line battling anyway, will understand that they should lock up their targets if they expect to have quality LRM support.

[Lyoto Machida]

Fen Tetsudo, on 26 December 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

[/font]

I get my own locks. My LRM boat carries BAP, Tag, Adv Target Decay and 4 med lasers as backup.

I get in close because LRMs are more effective at short range. And I tank damage for my team.

And I have never asked for locks.

Still had to deal with an LRM-hater telling my team to deliberately drop locks to grief me.

The LRM hate has gotten really stupid.

Well, if you've never asked for locks, why are you so concerned about this whole thing? Seems like a waste of time to get bothered about what some people are saying about the way other people who aren't you are playing.

One guy trolls you in a game and and it's a huge deal, it seems. Just forget about it and move on.

[sneeking]

If launching from longer ranges expect target to find cover or find yourself breaking los due to been targeted by someone.

Don't send a crap tonn of missiles from max range just send one volley for the assist points and some psychological value on the target.

[Sorbic]

You have to understand that the combative people who strike out at you for such things also have a limited ability to think beyond what they read. Sure it should be pretty obvious that you will also be getting your own locks but they get stuck on the asking bit and CHOOSE to assume you will just sit back and let everyone else do the work.

Then you get the other silly folks who think you're expecting them to stand there and take a beating to maintain a lock...

[sperkins]

A simple reminder to target is never a bad thing.

[Griffinhawk]

I only have 3 technically LRM boats. Mad Dog, Timberwolf, and a Catapult. I rarely play them but I do mount LRMs on a bunch of my heavier builds to toss something at an enemy while I'm moving into position at the beginning or I'm not in a good position for direct fire. What I have said in team chat in the past that applies to everything, not just LRMs is: "Lock targets for support." The implication for this statement is, yes, LRMs can get locks, but nearby team mates can use the info to back you up or reposition to support.

In most cases you need to be with your team/lance to be an effective LRM support mech. The air time of missiles fired at long range means a lot of wasted missiles. Almost forgot one more tip, get good at maneuvering while hold your lock and firing. A lot of the hate for boats is from those that sit static at extreme range. Think of it this way, would you rather be by yourself at 1k meters when a light pack descends on you because your missile trails led them right to you, or would you rather be shoulder to shoulder with your teammates that can take those lights out.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Hotthedd, on 26 December 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

Try not to confuse that guy with the people giving you good advice here.

But I haven't gotten any good advice that I didn't already know.

My point was that you can do everything people here are saying (as I already do), and you will still get griefed for bringing LRMs. So its not about getting your own locks or firing at close range or tanking damage or bringing tag and bap. People just don't like having to deal with LRMs. There is even a new thread by a T2 guy complaining that now he has to equip AMS because of LRMs making a comeback in the upper tier.

[Lyoto Machida]

Yoseful Mallad, on 26 December 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

and that's BS! They have a range of 1000 meters for a reason lol. And with my range module I can launch them from 1100 meters out. Nothing wrong with that at all.
The problem is most don't understand how or when to use LRMs properly.

I have no problems using them and hitting with hem at 900 to 1100 meters out and helping out my TEAM. And once I'm out or low on LRMs and know I can't be any more help from that range, I close in with my lasers and continue to help my TEAM.

It's not asking much for my team to hold locks with whatever they are battling so I can aid them from distance with a LRM mech. I mean isn't that the main job of a LRM mech... Support? LRM mechs can't support unless we have targets to hit. Sure we can get our own targets and we do when we can. But LRM mechs should also be able to sit back and support from he shadows too. Nothing wrong with that at all.


In fact... I had a game two nights ago and maybe some of my team from that game are reading this now. I was in my Mauler with 4 LRM 10 packs and 2 LLs. I had over 1200 LRMs. Guess what I did? I supported my team with them and got 4 kills with those LRMs and effectively kept the enemy off my guys on the front. And it ended up being me last standing against a Catapult that had no weapons and a raven who both ran and went to cap our base. I had used all my LRMs and jumped Into the fight. I made my way to the base and stopped the cap, killed the Catapult that was on our base and played cat and mouse with the remaining enemy Raven for what felt like forever (great piloting on his end) my back was cored from him and I made sure to keep my back against a wall or my base and ended up killing him after chasing each other around trying to get the killing blow. But my point is as an LRM mech, I know better to rely just in my LRMs and that my role may need to change from support to attacker at any time.

Not very many LRM users comprehend this.

a real team would get you locks if you need them. A real team understands that we all have roles and those that would be out on the front line battling anyway, will understand that they should lock up their targets if they expect to have quality LRM support.

Hey, it's your game. You can use LRMs however you want...even ineffectively if you choose to. I'm hitting at 40% and up on my LRMs and I pug quite a bit...I highly doubt you're doing that from 900m away. If you can't understand why shorter travel times from closer range help with LRM efficiency, that's on you.

People should be locking when they can, regardless of friendly weapon loadouts...don't expect them to risk their lives for you to lock, regardless if you're carrying LRMs, flamers or gauss rifles. Knock it off with the "real team" nonsense.

[Kraftwerkedup]

By taking LRMs instead of a better mech and build, youre hurting the team. Im not going to reward you for that behavior by making it easier on you to hurt the team.


Some of us actually play the game, get kills, win games, you know, the stuff youre supposed to do.

If LRMs werent terribad, id be with you. Id help you get locks. But im not going to in any way encourage you being a bad player. THATS helping my team.

Trust me. I can carry your LRM Awesome. You just stand there and look pretty. I got this.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Griffinhawk, on 26 December 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

The air time of missiles fired at long range means a lot of wasted missiles.

Not always. Many pilots tend to panic when they get a missile warning, so I sometimes fire off one bank just to get them to scamper for cover. From a light scout perspective I've been on the other end and seen it work well - I'm losing a 1v1 dogfight but then the other light gives up the initiative and runs for cover because he thinks 1000 LRMs are about to fall on him.

But its just an LRM5 that never lands because I shot him in the back while he was freaking out

[Wintersdark]

Fen Tetsudo, on 26 December 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

[/font]

I get my own locks. My LRM boat carries BAP, Tag, Adv Target Decay and 4 med lasers as backup.

I get in close because LRMs are more effective at short range. And I tank damage for my team.

And I have never asked for locks.

Still had to deal with an LRM-hater telling my team to deliberately drop locks to grief me.

The LRM hate has gotten really stupid.

So you ran into an ******. That happens, deal with it.

The posts in this thread are correct, and they are not just "LRM hate".

The reality is asking people to hold locks is really irritating. The reality is for someone to HOLD a lock, they have to stay in line of sight of their target. This means they're likely constantly taking fire, and have to be more or less looking at the target at the time as well.

The following is not direct at you, Fen.

"Please hold locks". STFU. I target who I'm fighting, because I'm not terribad. But I'm not holding that lock for you unless he's not looking at me, because I'm not taking damage for you while you hide in the back. Get your own god damned locks.

I run mechs with LRM's very frequently. Typically they are a secondary weapon system mind you, ~30 tubes along with other weapons, but I always, ALWAYS get my own locks whenever possible. This because if you can't see your target, you don't know if you can hit your target. Also, without line of sight, Artemis bonuses are lost.

[Griffinhawk]

Fen: True, I didn't go into the psychological warfare aspect of tossing a single LRM salvo at someone to get them to move. I was referring more to the guy chain firing 4x LRM 15s.

[Wintersdark]

Fen Tetsudo, on 26 December 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

But I haven't gotten any good advice that I didn't already know.

My point was that you can do everything people here are saying (as I already do), and you will still get griefed for bringing LRMs. So its not about getting your own locks or firing at close range or tanking damage or bringing tag and bap. People just don't like having to deal with LRMs. There is even a new thread by a T2 guy complaining that now he has to equip AMS because of LRMs making a comeback in the upper tier.

Yeah, you're always going to get griefed for something. You'll get grief for running a meta build too. Or for NOT running a meta build. The world is full of a*****es.

Edited by Wintersdark, 26 December 2015 - 05:18 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Kraftwerkedup, on 26 December 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

If LRMs werent terribad, id be with you. Id help you get locks. But im not going to in any way encourage you being a bad player. THATS helping my team.

That's an incredibly stupid attitude, even by your own logic.

I had a newbie bring an LRM boat into CW last week. I could have just written him off and lost an entire 85 ton mech. Instead, I found a way to make him partially effective, so he wasn't a total waste. THATS helping your team.

BTW, why aren't you bringing BAP, ECM, Adv Sensor range and UAVs? I would help you, I would let you know you are about to get flanked and blindsided by 4 heavies "but im not going to in any way encourage you being a bad player."

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 26 December 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[Mystere]

[Wintersdark]

Yoseful Mallad, on 26 December 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

a real team would get you locks if you need them. A real team understands that we all have roles and those that would be out on the front line battling anyway, will understand that they should lock up their targets if they expect to have quality LRM support.

No. Because getting you locks is bad play, because it requires the person holding a lock for you reveal himself and keep himself revealed, hoping that you'll be firing at his target in particular. Holding locks will usually get you killed.

People should be - and do, at non-underhive levels of play - getting locks when they can. But you need to understand that they are constantly moving, twisting, evading, seeking cover, firing, etc. They CAN'T hold locks without sacrificing themselves so you can fire from safety.

[LastKhan]

Extremist Pain, on 26 December 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

MechWarrior is a team game. Im not sure where this belief that supporting your team is too much. For example, i was just asking for locks in a game and i was told to get my own locks. Im sorry if asking for a contribution is too much, but if you dont feel like being a member of the team, dont play a team based game. You think you can win this game without my help, go ahead and try. Ill enjoy watching you fail.

Sorry, *dramatic pause* Your missile fu is too weak.

Also kinda a rule for me is to never go full boat, or at least dedicate a spot for tag or narc. Oh how i love my 4 LRM 10, ppc, and med laser Mad Doge. A 1, 2, punch mech. But when im not LRMin i try to get some eyes but i never promise anything. Always expect to do things alone jim jim.

Edited by LastKhan, 26 December 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Wintersdark, on 26 December 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

So you ran into an ******. That happens, deal with it.The posts in this thread are correct, and they are not just "LRM hate".

We disagree. I think he represents much of the mentality here and just said what most are really thinking.

Quote

The reality is asking people to hold locks is really irritating. The reality is for someone to HOLD a lock, they have to stay in line of sight of their target. This means they're likely constantly taking fire, and have to be more or less looking at the target at the time as well.

I've never found it irritating. In fact, I appreciate the reminder and the heads up that you have LRMs. Sure, I agree that saying "LRM 40 here" is a smarter way to do it. But when people ask me to try to "hold locks pls" I have never taken it to mean I should risk myself to get a lock.

I run ecm scouts with an effective wpn range of 300 meters, but a sensor range of 1000. So I routinely find myself in situations where I can lock up a target for rain without exposing myself.

And when I run assaults and heavies that need to poke to be effective (ie no locks) I just assume the LRM boat is not talking to me when he reminds us to hold locks. <shrug> I certainly don't get offended by the request.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 26 December 2015 - 05:23 PM.