551 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior3671771]

Quote

Do LRM boats expect direct fire mechs to stand out in the open to hold a lock for the LRM boat to hide and shoot LRMs?

Nope. But alot of people are telepaths who just *know* what LRM boats expect.

And I'm trying to understand the contradiction - on one hand, they go 26 pages unable to comprehend the words "we aren't asking you to risk your mech". On the other, I would have thought telepathy requires a minimum level of intelligence.

But maybe its possible to be smart enough to read someone's mind but too stupid to understand what is read?

[Gas Guzzler]

Fen Tetsudo, on 29 December 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Nope. But alot of people are telepaths who just *know* what LRM boats expect.

And I'm trying to understand the contradiction - on one hand, they go 26 pages unable to comprehend the words "we aren't asking you to risk your mech". On the other, I would have thought telepathy requires a minimum level of intelligence.

But maybe its possible to be smart enough to read someone's mind but too stupid to understand what is read?

Well, when all the LRM people asking for locks respond with "All you have to do is press R its not hard gawsh" and then say "we aren't asking you to risk your mech" its pretty obvious they don't understand the game. Its like, do you think people are just going to turn off their lock for no reason? The lock is lost when they get back into cover. So asking for them to hold locks is asking them to stay outside of cover. Most of the time, you are going to get shot and sacrifice armor to do that.

MischiefSC, on 29 December 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

They problem is that you're an elitist tryhard who hates LRM players for their freedom and doesn't understand real teamwork. Clearly you'll never be that good with LRMS. They're hard mode anyway. Go back to your scrub tier laser vomit and ruin the game for all the real players.

I think I got all the BS spergrage glurge in that. I miss anything?

You got everything.

The funny thing is, I was actually having fun in that Hunchback, which is weird because normally I hate LRMs. Its just a little slow, sometimes my team would NASCAR too fast, but I had no problem getting locks. JJs and TAG go a long way.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 29 December 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

Yep. That's what I mean though. They are trying to win. Putting forward effort. The other types are just showing up. Occupying space. Irrelevant readshirts. They want to win because they showed up, not because they put in the effort.

exactly
Then they wonder why they're not "included" when it comes to forming strategies and such and get indignant when you try to offer them tips and such. Those I just typically mute and move on from, I won't be in their Tier range for too terribly long lol
Those are the ones perpetually stuck in Tier 5 and such. It's got nothing to do with being "casual", it's got to do with that entitlement attitude like you touched on. "
"I clicked launch, I should win"

[MischiefSC]

Fen Tetsudo, on 29 December 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Nope. But alot of people are telepaths who just *know* what LRM boats expect.

And I'm trying to understand the contradiction - on one hand, they go 26 pages unable to comprehend the words "we aren't asking you to risk your mech". On the other, I would have thought telepathy requires a minimum level of intelligence.

But maybe its possible to be smart enough to read someone's mind but too stupid to understand what is read?

Except we shouldn't have to know or care what they're thinking. Your team shouldn't have to change how they play based on a teammates loadout, not by any measurable degree.

They should always be locking every target they can. Without exception. If hitting the lock key is a skill someone hasn't picked up they need to GIT GUD and learn to habitually press 1 button when confronted by an empty dorito.

LRM players need to manage their own deployment of their weapons, just like everyone else. When I'm in a gauss jag I don't say in chat "Gauss sniper here, try to keep them up high, in the open and distracted". I go handle my own bidness. Regardless of what loadout you have you need to expect to handle yourself. Every loadout is better with teamwork - however if you want to expect teamwork play with a group in group queue. If you have a loadout that I'd dependent on your team that's a "you" problem.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 December 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

Well, when all the LRM people asking for locks respond with "All you have to do is press R its not hard gawsh" and then say "we aren't asking you to risk your mech" its pretty obvious they don't understand the game. Its like, do you think people are just going to turn off their lock for no reason?

Of course not. I think LRM people, like most players, spectate after they die and see alot of people brawling and not bothering to lock up the target. And maybe they think "damn I could have killed that guy for you if you had just bothered to let me know, what a waste". I know I often get in fights and forget to lock. So the reminder is appreciated.

Its like when people ask me "group up pls". I don't assume the worst when asked that. I guess I could rage at them for wanting to hide behind my armor, block my firing lanes, steal my kills and leech off my AMS... but that would be as silly as assuming "hold locks pls" means they want me to face-stare a Dire for their LRMs.

Perhaps there is another reason they remind me to hold locks. Alas, I am not a telepath. And I'm very stupid.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 29 December 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 December 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

Well, when all the LRM people asking for locks respond with "All you have to do is press R its not hard gawsh" and then say "we aren't asking you to risk your mech" its pretty obvious they don't understand the game. Its like, do you think people are just going to turn off their lock for no reason? The lock is lost when they get back into cover. So asking for them to hold locks is asking them to stay outside of cover. Most of the time, you are going to get shot and sacrifice armor to do that.




You got everything.

The funny thing is, I was actually having fun in that Hunchback, which is weird because normally I hate LRMs. Its just a little slow, sometimes my team would NASCAR too fast, but I had no problem getting locks. JJs and TAG go a long way.

My best and favorite LRM boat is my only remaining Highlander. 50 tubes, tag + ll and all the ammo. The JJs plus tag for that quick "pop'n lock" works even with hoverjets.

I can see where that would be pretty awesome with the Hunchies high mounts and Clan 1/2 weight LRMs.

[Gas Guzzler]

Fen Tetsudo, on 29 December 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

Of course not. I think LRM people, like most players, spectate after they die and see alot of people brawling and not bothering to lock up the target. I know I often get in fights and forget to lock. So the reminder is appreciated.

Its like when people ask me "please group up". I don't assume the worst when asked that. I guess I could rage at them for wanting to hide behind my armor, block my firing lanes, steal my kills and leech off my AMS... but that would be as silly as assuming "hold locks pls" means they want me to face-stare a Dire for their LRMs.

Perhaps there is another reason they remind me to hold locks. Alas, I am not a telepath. And I'm very stupid.

Yeah, I don't rage when people say hold locks, I just roll my eyes a little and assume they are bad.

Although I have said it before just because it rustles my teammates jimmies and I get to hear them complain on TS. That makes it worth it.


But yeah, those guys who are brawling and won't lock a target aren't going to remember to do that because someone reminded them at the beginning of the match. They are too caught up being super awesome at the game (read: being a scrub) that they don't have the mental capacity to remember to lock a target. They are brawling, engaging someone that close takes a lot of brain power and skills, pressing R is too much to ask, even if it would reveal that a scratch to the RT of that mech would kill it. No, too much, he is showing me his LT a lot more so better keep shooting that. I'm sure its his weaker component, that is why he is putting his left side forward, obviously.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 29 December 2015 - 02:53 PM.

[wolf74]

most Players do not understand you get Paid for Holding a Good Lock that someone else is using to Hit the Target with Missiles.

[MechWarrior3671771]

MischiefSC, on 29 December 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Except we shouldn't have to know or care what they're thinking. Your team shouldn't have to change how they play based on a teammates loadout

That's simply not true. I run light scouts 95% of the time. My role is usually to wolfpack slow assaults and then pick at the flanks, but if I hear "hold locks pls" that tells me we have a significant amount of LRMs and it actually "changes how I play based on a teammates loadout".

I have some free buttons for a macro. I think I'll add "hold locks pls" in there, as it seems to really get inside some people's head. If I can get red team arguing in chat about how "stoopid LRMs" are, maybe I have a better chance of jumping stragglers.

PsyOps

[MischiefSC]

Fen Tetsudo, on 29 December 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

That's simply not true. I run light scouts 95% of the time. My role is usually to wolfpack slow assaults and then pick at the flanks, but if I hear "hold locks pls" that tells me we have a significant amount of LRMs and it actually "changes how I play based on a teammates loadout".

I have some free buttons for a macro. I think I'll add "hold locks pls" in there, as it seems to really get inside some people's head. If I can get red team arguing in chat about how "stoopid LRMs" are, maybe I have a better chance of jumping stragglers.

PsyOps

Okay. I have to admit. Being in a 'serious' drop in CW or group queue when everyone is on point and saying "okay guys, hold locks for me!" would be pretty funny.

If I'm scouting I ask the team and advise them I'm a scout, as that's me playing a role to support them. That's different than playing a role that requires them to support me.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 29 December 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Okay. I have to admit. Being in a 'serious' drop in CW or group queue when everyone is on point and saying "okay guys, hold locks for me!" would be pretty funny.

If I'm scouting I ask the team and advise them I'm a scout, as that's me playing a role to support them. That's different than playing a role that requires them to support me.

Can you imagine if light pilots and scouts started saying "Find your own enemy forces, I'm not poking out to get views on them for you. Stop being a coward and rush out there to find them on your own"

[Wintersdark]

MischiefSC, on 29 December 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Except we shouldn't have to know or care what they're thinking. Your team shouldn't have to change how they play based on a teammates loadout, not by any measurable degree.

They should always be locking every target they can. Without exception. If hitting the lock key is a skill someone hasn't picked up they need to GIT GUD and learn to habitually press 1 button when confronted by an empty dorito.

LRM players need to manage their own deployment of their weapons, just like everyone else. When I'm in a gauss jag I don't say in chat "Gauss sniper here, try to keep them up high, in the open and distracted". I go handle my own bidness. Regardless of what loadout you have you need to expect to handle yourself. Every loadout is better with teamwork - however if you want to expect teamwork play with a group in group queue. If you have a loadout that I'd dependent on your team that's a "you" problem.

Absolutely. This is a team game, but in the solo queue, you have to be self sufficient. It's reasonable to expect people to not deliberately sabotage you (such as some ******* not pressing R just to spite you, despite how that hurts the whole team), but you also should not expect the team to do anything out of the ordinary to help or accommodate you. Not because they're all selfish jerks, but because if everyone started expecting that (and sadly, particularly with less experienced players, they do) then nothing would get done because everyone would expect everyone else to do something different, and we'd have a huge cluster****.

So, each player should be able to contribute 100% assuming normal, solid play from their teammates: That is, people press R whenever confronted with an empty dorito, not to help LRM boats in particular but because it does so very much for your whole team - even for the player in question. Target information is critically valuable.

Responsibility here is shared between everyone. You shouldn't bring a mech that's so slow it needs babysitting to a solo pubqueue match, because it's you're job to be able to keep up. A DWF, thus, is basically the slowest you should ever go (and if at all possible, aim for faster) - people expect to deal with DWF's, but taking an even smaller engine because you want to pack in more guns is breaking this implied contract. You need to be able to take care of yourself first, to not be a burden to your team.

Sandpit, on 29 December 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

Can you imagine if light pilots and scouts started saying "Find your own enemy forces, I'm not poking out to get views on them for you. Stop being a coward and rush out there to find them on your own"

While I get where you're going with this, I can't remember the last time I saw a light pilot actually scouting... Or, for that matter, really needed one to. Our map design and game modes make it less than necessary most of the time. Just saying, is all.

[Lyoto Machida]

There's a reason why some people feel the way they do when they hear "hold locks pls, LRM boat here" or whatever. Experience has shown them that players like that play a certain way (sitting in the back lobbing indirect LRMs)...even if the line of thought isn't completely true all the time.

When people say "world's policeman" and "securing oil resources," they generally don't think of India.
When people refer to "400 years of oppression" in the United States, they generally don't refer to Native Americans.
When people talk about "successful baseball franchises," they generally don't bring up the Cleveland Indians.

I'm out of Indian references here but I think you get the point. There's a reason people think they way they do when people ask for locks in chat. Whether that stereotype is accurate or not doesn't matter...many people already have prejudgement against players that say stuff like because of the history of this game and the people that asked for locks in the past.

Galenit, on 29 December 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Noone should ask for locks, it should be one thing that you do automaticaly.
Knowing where the enemy is, where they move and how many are there helps in winning.
Removing a gauss or legging a lite helps in winning, but you cant do it without locking the enemy and seeing its paperdoll.
If you have an open torso you hope that your allys mark the enemys, it helps you using the moment to fire your weapons without dying, it helps winning.
Even a lazy lrm boat that sits 900m can make that dakkomonster take cover and not firing, but the boat-pilot dont know what he would have done if te has fighted at 300-500m. Dont *****, explain him why staying at the battleline can make him doing much better and winning more. He dont know it better ...

Gas Guzzler, on 29 December 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Its funny, I have been having fun in my LRM 60 Hunchback IIC, and I have never had to ask others for locks. I either get them anyway as is the nature of the game, or I have LoS taking advantage of the tighter grouping when I have TAG on target. If you aren't moving with your team, you are doing it wrong. If you have to rely on your team to get your locks, you aren't moving with your team.


Do LRM boats expect direct fire mechs to stand out in the open to hold a lock for the LRM boat to hide and shoot LRMs? Why on earth would you expect that? And then you have the gall to tell them that they aren't being team players because they aren't putting you on their back and carrying you? Man... some LRM jockeys sure are an entitled folk.

MischiefSC, on 29 December 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Except we shouldn't have to know or care what they're thinking. Your team shouldn't have to change how they play based on a teammates loadout, not by any measurable degree.

They should always be locking every target they can. Without exception. If hitting the lock key is a skill someone hasn't picked up they need to GIT GUD and learn to habitually press 1 button when confronted by an empty dorito.

LRM players need to manage their own deployment of their weapons, just like everyone else. When I'm in a gauss jag I don't say in chat "Gauss sniper here, try to keep them up high, in the open and distracted". I go handle my own bidness. Regardless of what loadout you have you need to expect to handle yourself. Every loadout is better with teamwork - however if you want to expect teamwork play with a group in group queue. If you have a loadout that I'd dependent on your team that's a "you" problem.

People need to listen to these guys. You should be locking targets regardless of what your loadout is. LRM boats shouldn't get any special preference.

Fen Tetsudo, on 29 December 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Nope. But alot of people are telepaths who just *know* what LRM boats expect.

And I'm trying to understand the contradiction - on one hand, they go 26 pages unable to comprehend the words "we aren't asking you to risk your mech". On the other, I would have thought telepathy requires a minimum level of intelligence.

But maybe its possible to be smart enough to read someone's mind but too stupid to understand what is read?

I've shot over 1,500,000 LRMs since I started playing this game...I'm fairly familiar with the playstyle.

Stop being so sensitive and get your own locks if you have to...people aren't always going to serve you up locks on a platter.

[Sandpit]

Wintersdark, on 29 December 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

While I get where you're going with this, I can't remember the last time I saw a light pilot actually scouting... Or, for that matter, really needed one to. Our map design and game modes make it less than necessary most of the time. Just saying, is all.

ok... you don't play with me scouting for you then
regardless
can you then imagine if that attitude applied to every other aspect of the game?
"Screw you, I'm not wasting my heat and ammo on target Kilo, you shoot him instead, I'm going to save my ammo so I make sure I have enough to get a kill"
same principle

Lyoto Machida, on 29 December 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

I've shot over 1,500,000 LRMs since I started playing this game...I'm fairly familiar with the playstyle.

Stop being so sensitive and get your own locks if you have to...people aren't always going to serve you up locks on a platter.

can you please show me ANYwhere this is being asked for, discussed, implied, or otherwise mentioned other than by those trying to "argue" against locks?

[Mycrus]

Sandpit, on 29 December 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

ok... you don't play with me scouting for you then
regardless
can you then imagine if that attitude applied to every other aspect of the game?
"Screw you, I'm not wasting my heat and ammo on target Kilo, you shoot him instead, I'm going to save my ammo so I make sure I have enough to get a kill"
same principle


can you please show me ANYwhere this is being asked for, discussed, implied, or otherwise mentioned other than by those trying to "argue" against locks?

I have penchant for using lurm boats to distract targets... when I'm stalking an enemy mech, i call for lurm support and only backstab when the lurms start hitting... most wont even realize that im at their rear... i think that was how "i died with one salvo, lurms op" threads began...

[Deathlike]

Yay... it's the yearly/semi-yearly/quarterly thread about getting LRM locks.

Happy New Year folks.

[Captain Stiffy]

Deathlike, on 29 December 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

Yay... it's the yearly/semi-yearly/quarterly thread about getting LRM locks.

Happy New Year folks.

fale

[Lyoto Machida]

Sandpit, on 29 December 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

can you please show me ANYwhere this is being asked for, discussed, implied, or otherwise mentioned other than by those trying to "argue" against locks?

That wasn't directed at you. Regardless, this whole thread blows everything out of proportion. Are there guys out there intentionally denying locks to other players? Sure...probably. Are there people out there asking for locks? Most likely as well.

I don't think this top warrants 27 pages but LRMs are always a touchy subject. However, it doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother other LRM pilots because I'll put my mech near the front line and GET MY OWN LOCKS with TAG if nobody else is locking. In the end, it really doesn't matter because if nobody else on my team but the LRM boat is locking, we're most likely doomed anyway. If everyone else is locking like they should, I'll reap the extra benefits of it when I fire LRMs.

This thread should really be about the people who don't intentionally lock their targets, not the LRM boat pilots who ask for locks, because some of you guys make it seem like people out there intentionally not locking targets is such a common thing. I don't see either behavior that much for the most part.

If you feel the need to drive a mech that only carries missile hardpoints and no way to TAG for yourself, maybe you should reconsider if that mech is worth bringing in a public game where you don't have the certain backup of friendly unit/group members around you. I mean...isn't that kind of putting all your eggs in one basket by taking only missiles?

Think about it...this whole thread started when the OP mentioned that people weren't locking and then he later clarified that he was in a HBK IIC. I just looked up the hardpoints on the HBK IICs and guess what? ALL OF THEM HAVE TWO ENERGY HARDPOINTS IN THE CT. You know what fits in an energy hardpoint? TAG...

[Sandpit]

Lyoto Machida, on 29 December 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

This thread should really be about the people who don't intentionally lock their targets,

That's what I thought it was about? lol

[Wintersdark]

As someone running an hbk-iic-b a lot currently (leveling it), you don't run tag. Even in a LRM boat. Still get your own locks, but tag is unnecessary.

A second energy weapon is too important. Having only room for one, single slot E weapon is insufficient for not being useless.

ECM pretty much never cloaks whole teams anymore, and definitely doesn't at t3 and lower levels.

So, yeah, you don't need tag for locks, and honestly these days its more of a disadvantage than anything.