829 replies to this topic

[Cryzak]

BANE

[Gas Guzzler]

IronClaws, on 11 January 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

The problem with the Night Gyr is that the Hellbringer already fills the same role (more guns > speed). The Linebacker would be the fastest Clan heavy in the game, even faster than the Summoner.

The Hellbringer has a completely different role than the Night Gyr would have, it is the same speed as the Timber/Ebon Jag but has less tons for guns. Its saving grace is good hardpoints and ECM.

[pbiggz]

IronClaws, on 11 January 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

The problem with the Night Gyr is that the Hellbringer already fills the same role (more guns > speed). The Linebacker would be the fastest Clan heavy in the game, even faster than the Summoner.

The Hellbringer has 23 tons of podspace and it focuses on electronics. The Cauldron Born is your gunboat 65 tonner, not the hellbringer. But again, you're wrong, because the Night Gyr is a 75 tonner with 38 tons of podspace. That would be the most podspace of any mech in game short of the direwolf. Its also slower, with a top speed of 65 kph rather than the standard clan top speed for heavies (about 86).

Also, the linebacker, even being that fast would be next to useless. Its an over tonned medium that carries barely more weapons than a light. The Stormcrow has more podspace.

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 January 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

Wait wat?

Yep, it's a very Crit limited mech.

Gauss only goes in either arm. You can do 15 heatsinks, TC1, Dual Gauss and 6 tons of ammo, with 100% Crit usage.
Though, not sure you'd want to strip that ALL from the legs (JJs and poptarting and all that).

Tri UAC10 (6 tons, 1200 damage), 4 ERSLs? Leaves you with moderately poor ammo allocation (2 tons in the arm, 3 ERSLs in a shield arm, head ammo used last).

Edited by Mcgral18, 11 January 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[ColdPsyker1]

Urbanmech IIC

"But coldpsyker, that's not an omnimech" you say!

My response? "F*** you. Urbanmech power!"

[Wintersdark]

martian, on 11 January 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Before quirks are known, I think that it's difficult to judge 'Mechs. I considered unquirked TDR-9S to be a pretty mediocre 'Mech. On the other hand, TDR-9S with those (in)famous ER PPC quirks was the default IS Heavy 'Mech, especially for CW.

Except for Clan mechs have essentially no quirks, and definitely none of note on release.

Unlike IS mechs that can get fairly substantial quirks, that's just not something that happens for clans.

Quote

Ditto for hitboxes.

Generally speaking, we can anticipate hitboxed pretty well. It's rare that hitboxed on release substantially alter a mechs projected performance, unless it has objectively broken ones that need to be fixed (see: Hellbringer on release, for example)

Quote

Ditto for exact position of hardpoints.

These can definitely be predicted well enough.

Quote

There are some Inner Sphere Assault 'Mechs that run standard 360 engine. The Cyclops, for example. Or the Ymir. The Pulverizer had it.

I think that I will simply wait for what PGI comes with.

This couldn't be less relevant. Stock IS mech builds in Tabletop have zero impact in performance in MWO, and such an argument is completely absurd.

All the above pale in comparison to hard numbers, that really matter. PGI have released a lot of Clan mechs now, and we know how the pipeline works. While hardpoints inflation can be a bit hard to predict, general hardpoints and placement are known. The new Clan mechs will have no or very minimal quirks. Pod space is absolutely known, and is a critical factor for Clan mechs as, unlike IS mechs, you cannot adjust it via changing es/ff, jump jets, or engines.

This leads to a very important point: the locked nature of engines, and upgrades make it very easy to predict which Clan mechs will be good and which won't. We've been pretty much completely successful with such prediction to date. That's why these locked factors are less a balance tool and more just a "mark mechs as garbage before they even get into the game" measure.

It's all about hardpoints, speed, and pod space in the end for Clan mechs. This makes them way easier to predict than is mechs, because there's no quirk wildcards.

Wait and see all you like, its trivially easy to predict Clan mechs.

[pbiggz]

ColdPsyker1, on 11 January 2016 - 05:10 PM, said:

Urbanmech IIC

"But coldpsyker, that's not an omnimech" you say!

My response? "F*** you. Urbanmech power!"

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[Cancer Warrior]

Why don't fix what we got before adding more stuff that affects balance? Even if it's 1 mech per 1 new mech release... There are way too many mech's in the game that don't compete well.....

Edited by Cancer Warrior, 11 January 2016 - 05:26 PM.

[Kael Posavatz]

Pick the mechs for the next Clan Pack?

Decisions…

Decisions…

Okay, let us start with the timeline. Russ asks for 3053-produced mechs or earlier. That eliminates a lot of choices.

A lot.

Tech we have, so no Naga (not that, as dirty clanners, that we have a lot of use for such a mech but still).

Bipeds only—say goodbye Thunder Stallion, and no Fire Scorpion this wave.

OmniMechs—so no Grizzly, or Bane, or Stone Rhino, or…. (Sigh). I am almost tempted to ask for the Stooping Hawk but I do not hate the Clans enough to do that to them. (Or hate Russ enough to provoke the outcry that would ensue if the Clans got that Omni after the lack of support [re: quirks] for using standard engines in the Origins.)

So, for argument’s sake let us see if we can find one mech in each weight class.

We will start with the Mediums since that class has a lot of choices. The Clans lack a 40-tonner so we will dismiss the Black Lanner, Huntsman, and Lobo. That leave us the Battle Cobra, Coyotl, Phantom, Pouncer, and Viper. The Battle Cobra was initially a prototype for omni-pods and I do not want to see what PGI would do with that, the Coyotl lacks more than two configurations, and the Pouncer is an overweight Adder. That leaves the Phantom or the Viper. The Phantom would be the Clans’ answer to the Cicada, but potentially suffers the same defect as the Ice Ferret, namely the lack of weight for a useful weapons load.

Viper (IS callsign ‘Dragonfly’) it is.


Light. There are only really two choices available, the Fire Moth and the Fire Falcon. The Fire Moth would give the Clans a 20 ton mech. Unfortunately the last we have heard from PGI is that the Fire Moth is so fast it breaks the laws of physics (or at least as they exist in the game engine).

Looks like we have to take the Fire Falcon

Heavy Mech. There are four entries for a heavy, the Lupus, Crossbow, Night Gyr, and Woodsman. The Lupus has the same faults as the Stooping Hawk, and the Crossbow has those and the problems of the Battle Cobra, so those two get axed off the list first. The Woodsman is slow and the MASC only somewhat covers for it, plus only two cannon configurations so the testbed that gave us the Timber Wolf, Naga, and Gargoyle is on its way out. That leaves not-quite Whale-slow Night Gyr.

But wait! There is the Linebacker! This 65-ton heavy can break 100kph running flat out (with speed tweak). Watch out Grid Iron, the Clans have take the field.

Assault Mechs. There are not a whole lot of choices left to us for this class. The Supernova would give the Clans an answer to laser-vomit Stalkers, but it is a BattleMech (and only two variants do not need tech not yet in the game). There is the Kingfisher, but it has a standard engine, and standard-engine Clan mechs cannot carry sufficient weaponry to get through the quirkium-plate armor found on IS mechs (note: this same logic had me bid adieu to the Stooping Hawk and Lupus, and part of the reason for the Crossbow getting taken off the list).

We have to go with the slightly-faster-than-an-arthritic-snail Turkina (all the green pigeons will now caw ‘mine’.)




Note: That is not to say that I would drop money for this set of mechs. There is only one on it that I want to any great degree. I just think that this is the best combination of bipedal OmniMechs manufactured before 3053 that has sufficient configurations and allowable technology currently available and recognizing the limits available to the game engine.

Edited by Kael 17, 11 January 2016 - 05:40 PM.

[shameless]

if we're talking omni then fire falcon, black lanner, night gyr, Turkina
clan battlemechs- Piranha, Warhammer IIC , Shadow Hawk IIC, Hellhound

[Revis Volek]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 January 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

Can't dispute the time, but it definitely has a couple variants with weapons that we have.

I dont get why all these clanners want a mech that Dezgras pilot...


As a clanner at heart, IS can keep that mech. It was sold to Kurita and Steiner Factions and only used by a handfull of clans it can just stay with them as far as im concerned.

[Cancer Warrior]

I'll pass til the Victor "A" is released AND the Victors get some ST armor or structure buffs....

[Revis Volek]

Mcgral18, on 11 January 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

16.5 and 37.5, actually

So either the Firepower of a Medium or a true Heavy...

What a hard decision. lol

Cancer Warrior, on 11 January 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

I'll pass til the Victor "A" is released AND the Victors get some ST armor or structure buffs....

This thread isnt about IS mechs, and ONE new varaint wont save the other VTR's.


They need much more then ST quirks but it would certainly be a great start.

Kael 17, on 11 January 2016 - 05:26 PM, said:

Bipeds only—say goodbye Thunder Stallion, and no Fire Scorpion this wave.

I dont think we will ever get quads, just not something PGI can do IMO and not worth it. The handful of quads there is to sell wouldnt cover the cost or time put in.

IronClaws, on 11 January 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

The problem with the Night Gyr is that the Hellbringer already fills the same role (more guns > speed). The Linebacker would be the fastest Clan heavy in the game, even faster than the Summoner.

ITs just another mech with an oversized engine and no room for weapons, we dont need anymore of that honestly.

Edited by DarthRevis, 11 January 2016 - 05:50 PM.

[reign]

Let's face it the linebacker is the best choice 104kph 2x lol and 4 med lasers..or 4x6 srm6 and 4 med lasers. Or 2 uac 10 and 3x ermeds. And it's small profile.

[Dagorlad13]

pbiggz, on 11 January 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

The Hellbringer has 23 tons of podspace and it focuses on electronics. The Cauldron Born is your gunboat 65 tonner, not the hellbringer. But again, you're wrong, because the Night Gyr is a 75 tonner with 38 tons of podspace. That would be the most podspace of any mech in game short of the direwolf. Its also slower, with a top speed of 65 kph rather than the standard clan top speed for heavies (about 86).

Also, the linebacker, even being that fast would be next to useless. Its an over tonned medium that carries barely more weapons than a light. The Stormcrow has more podspace.

Alright, but don't we already have a very versatile 75 ton Omni with generous pod space and good survivability that makes IS pilots cry for more Clan nerfs everytime they get killed by one?

reign, on 11 January 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Let's face it the linebacker is the best choice 104kph 2x lol and 4 med lasers..or 4x6 srm6 and 4 med lasers. Or 2 uac 10 and 3x ermeds. And it's small profile.

Speed = Life more often than not in MWO.

Edited by IronClaws, 11 January 2016 - 05:54 PM.

[Dagorlad13]

Definitely the Black Lanner for the medium though, it is like a buffed up ShadowCat.

[BD RAIDR]

I would love to see the Fire Moth make it into the game, but if the engine can't handle its speed, then I think it would pay to think outside the box a little. How about two mediums, a heavy and an assault?

Why? Because clans could do with more mediums and there are a lot of medium options. A few of the 40 tonners are more or less heavy lights anyway...

Here's my list:

Kingfisher (90t)

Night Gyr (75t)

Black Lanner (55t)

Phantom (40t) (Fire Moth (20t) if possible)

Edited by F6Pete, 11 January 2016 - 06:48 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 11 January 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

Yep, it's a very Crit limited mech.

Gauss only goes in either arm. You can do 15 heatsinks, TC1, Dual Gauss and 6 tons of ammo, with 100% Crit usage.
Though, not sure you'd want to strip that ALL from the legs (JJs and poptarting and all that).

Tri UAC10 (6 tons, 1200 damage), 4 ERSLs? Leaves you with moderately poor ammo allocation (2 tons in the arm, 3 ERSLs in a shield arm, head ammo used last).

You could also do 4 UAC5s with decent ammo placement and a couple of backup lasers, but it still doesn't feel that impressive of a mech despite the free tonnage.

Where as with the Linebacker you could have up to 6 missiles with up to 7 energy which makes for a decent brawler.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 11 January 2016 - 06:31 PM.

[Dagorlad13]

Khobai, on 11 January 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Then why use a ShadowCat?

For the same reason that people use the Shadowcat instead of the Ice Ferret.

Seriously though, the ever-increasing CW dropdeck weight limit is killing the niche for "filler" mechs.

Edited by IronClaws, 11 January 2016 - 06:26 PM.

[Anjian]

Can't decide on the light yet.

Medium - Black Lanner
Heavy - Night Gyr
Assault - Kodiak or Turkina