829 replies to this topic

[LastKhan]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

and this summarizes the difference between Impy's Agenda and the so called agenda of the "Big Bad Three".

I love that he thinks we hold so much sway to a president of a gaming company when all we really did was help come to an understanding. Nope we're these "jokers" and "the real problem".

We're damn dirty communists!

Edited by LastKhan, 13 January 2016 - 12:55 PM.

[Metus regem]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 January 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Viper would be a good 40 tonner as well.

With only 8.5t of pod space, I find it rather starved for free weight, it's got a large 320xl engine, if you ask me, that's one size too large on a 40t mech, a 280xl (found in the Coyotl) is a much better option, Prime to Prime versions, the Coyotl has nearly double the pod space while still packing standard armour, rather than the FF of the Viper.... The art for the Coyotl would have everything in a high mount, save for the Alpha's CT weapon, and even then, it's right below the cockpit.

If I were to make a third version of the Coyotl I'd likely do something like this:

Coyotl Beta

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-D-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 7,228,083 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,650

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
1 Ultra AC/5
3 ER Medium Lasers
1 SRM-4
1 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 280 8.00
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 11(22) 1.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 136 8.50
CASE Locations: RT, RA 0.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 17
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 10 15
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 6 12
L/R Leg 10 20

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Small Laser HD 2 1 0.50
Ultra AC/5 RT 1 3 7.00
2 ER Medium Lasers LT 10 2 2.00
SRM-4 RA 3 1 1.00
ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1.00
@Ultra AC/5 (40) RT - 2 2.00
@SRM-4 (25) RA - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 27

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 13 January 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

With only 8.5t of pod space, I find it rather starved for free weight, it's got a large 320xl engine, if you ask me, that's one size too large on a 40t mech, a 280xl (found in the Coyotl) is a much better option, Prime to Prime versions, the Coyotl has nearly double the pod space while still packing standard armour, rather than the FF of the Viper

The reason it has almost double the free tonnage is the locked JJs eat up 4 tons, and again as I keep saying, it is a 40 tonner so a 320 really isn't that big considering it floats the line between medium and light.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 January 2016 - 01:00 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

Yeah but isn't the Crossbow the exact same speed as the other Clan heavies? Shouldn't that be a slight point for the Night Gyr or Linebacker .

Crossbow wishes it were a Battlemech so bad, its predecessor looks really cool and then you see the Omni version and are just left disappointed (much like the Battle Cobra the other CSV omni). Long story short, CSV did not know how to design omnis but they sure knew how to make battlemechs.

Absolutely true. Like I said, my sole motivation is that I WANT the Crossbow, not that I think it's great. The Linebacker...it's an even uglier, boxier Nova..... speed is nice, but egads it's hideous

Night Gyr is similarly...ugly (though not as), and simply doesn't fill a need either.... like I said, my "justification" is that Heavies don't NEED another "contender" mech atm, and I actually like (because I'm a masochist) the Crossbow. I figure probably me and like 2 other people will vote for it, lol.

I guess I should go and make up an argument and post on every other post why we NEED THE CROSSBOW, eh?

Pariah Devalis, on 13 January 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

At least it looks really, really cool. Aesthetically. Hell, if LRMs were worth taking than the Crossbow might not even be that terrible.

If.

one variant allows for 4 srm racks... could be fun.

But remember...I actualyl LIKE Summoners, Novas; Gargoyles, Vindicators and Orions. I'm like the Patron Saint for Bad Mechs.

0bsidion, on 13 January 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

I will grant you that it doesn't suffer from the severe hard point shortage the Coyotl has, although as I mentioned before, that lack could be fixed by PGIs 2 made up variants. What it does suffer from is the weird tendency to overengine Clan mediums. Might be OK despite that though.

ugh... Summoner needs a made up variant before more than like...anything... even though it will likely only reaffirm laservomit meta... but since what it really needs (endo) simply is never going to happen....

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

Absolutely true. Like I said, my sole motivation is that I WANT the Crossbow, not that I think it's great. The Linebacker...it's an even uglier, boxier Nova..... speed is nice, but egads it's hideous

Night Gyr is similarly...ugly (though not as), and simply doesn't fill a need either.... like I said, my "justification" is that Heavies don't NEED another "contender" mech atm, and I actually like (because I'm a masochist) the Crossbow. I figure probably me and like 2 other people will vote for it, lol.

I guess I should go and make up an argument and post on every other post why we NEED THE CROSSBOW, eh?

one variant allows for 4 srm racks... could be fun.

But remember...I actualyl LIKE Summoners, Novas; Gargoyles, Vindicators and Orions. I'm like the Patron Saint for Bad Mechs.


ugh... Summoner needs a made up variant before more than like...anything... even though it will likely only reaffirm laservomit meta... but since what it really needs (endo) simply is never going to happen....

We should get you pushing for the Urbie IIC. In fact, I am surprised you have not started, so your alt can pilot one too.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

ugh... Summoner needs a made up variant before more than like...anything... even though it will likely only reaffirm laservomit meta... but since what it really needs (endo) simply is never going to happen....

It just needs future variants, 6M between the side torsos would make it the best Clan brawler in the current meta.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

The reason it has almost double the free tonnage is the locked JJs eat up 4 tons, and again as I keep saying, it is a 40 tonner so a 320 really isn't that big considering it floats the line between medium and light.

I know, and I get that, I just think the tonnage jump from a 280 to a 320 is a lot, for not a lot of gain. And that is my perspective, just as yours is that a 320 is just fine, and that's okay we are able to disagree and be amicable about it, it would be nice if some other fourmites could be as amicable about differences.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 January 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

Well everyone has different criteria...

But I will say between all the torso hardpoints and how the arms are designed the hardpoints SHOULD be much higher/better than the hardpoints on the gargles and the gladbag.

http://www.sarna.net.../Kingfisher.jpg
not seeing it... it looks pretty much normal biped arm to me....

LastKhan, on 13 January 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

I love that he thinks we hold so much sway to a president of a gaming company when all we really did was help come to an understanding. Nope we're these "jokers" and "the real problem".

We're damn dirty communists!

irrational people tend to project irrational thoughts.

Metus regem, on 13 January 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

With only 8.5t of pod space, I find it rather starved for free weight, it's got a large 320xl engine, if you ask me, that's one size too large on a 40t mech, a 280xl (found in the Coyotl) is a much better option, Prime to Prime versions, the Coyotl has nearly double the pod space while still packing standard armour, rather than the FF of the Viper.... The art for the Coyotl would have everything in a high mount, save for the Alpha's CT weapon, and even then, it's right below the cockpit.

If I were to make a third version of the Coyotl I'd likely do something like this:

Coyotl Beta

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-D-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 7,228,083 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,650

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
1 Ultra AC/5
3 ER Medium Lasers
1 SRM-4
1 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 280 8.00
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 11(22) 1.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 136 8.50
CASE Locations: RT, RA 0.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 17
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 10 15
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 6 12
L/R Leg 10 20

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Small Laser HD 2 1 0.50
Ultra AC/5 RT 1 3 7.00
2 ER Medium Lasers LT 10 2 2.00
SRM-4 RA 3 1 1.00
ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1.00
@Ultra AC/5 (40) RT - 2 2.00
@SRM-4 (25) RA - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 27

most cicadas don't run huge amounts of weapon tonnage either. As 40 tonners go, I'd take the Coyotl, Viper or Pouncer with equal equanimity .

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

Pouncer with equal equanimity .

I don't know that I want the Pouncer to make the Badder sadder

[Imperius]

LastKhan, on 13 January 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

I love that he thinks we hold so much sway to a president of a gaming company when all we really did was help come to an understanding. Nope we're these "jokers" and "the real problem".

We're damn dirty communists!

Once people bug him enough about a topic he will close up and end it as fast as he can. He said people can stop already so apparently he was bugged a lot. I sure as hell didn't need clarification of timeline is of minor concern, tech is...

Edited by Imperius, 13 January 2016 - 01:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Like I've noted many times, I'm tired of the sole criteria most people use for a mech is "how well will it Meta".

First...there are tons of Battletech Mechs that simply never will meta well, whatever the meta shifts. We shoudl still want them in because "choices".

In some weight classes (like Clan Heavy) we already have so many MetaMech options, that IMO, it's about as boring a criteria as we can ask for, especially if we insist on focusing solely on the current Meta as though set in stone.

At some point, people need to loosen their belts, trade out their too tighty whities for boxers, sit back, do an Al Bundy and relax....

and just let some mechs in for the sake of they look cool, or are fun. Doesn't fit your personal criteria? Don't buy it. Pretty simple. For the Meta Crowd I have a feeling the vast majority of available options are roundly ignored anyhow.

Heck let's make 4 PGI special Mechs (1 per weight class) that are the epitome of everything Meta, let the Tryhards have those, and then the rest of us can go back to playing whatever the heck we find to be fun or cool.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

I don't know that I want the Pouncer to make the Badder sadder

maybe if it made the sadder Badder madder, it would feel compelled to work out, lose some of that spare tire, pick up some speed and compete.....

Though oddly I like my Koopa Troopa just the way it is, lol.

Metus regem, on 13 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

I know, and I get that, I just think the tonnage jump from a 280 to a 320 is a lot, for not a lot of gain. And that is my perspective, just as yours is that a 320 is just fine, and that's okay we are able to disagree and be amicable about it, it would be nice if some other fourmites could be as amicable about differences.

NO!!! YOU ARE ALL AGAINST ME SO YOU DESERVE THE CRAPSTORM OF BAD YOU ARE GOING TO RECEIVE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T INCLUDE MY ONE TRUE UBERMECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imperius, on 13 January 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

Once people bug him enough about a topic he will close up and end it as fast as he can. He said people can stop already so apparently he was bugged a lot. I sure as hell didn't need clarification of timeline is of minor concern, tech is...

and yet, you continue to prove you did. Funny that.

[LastKhan]

Imperius, on 13 January 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

Once people bug him enough about a topic he will close up and end it as fast as he can. He said people can stop already so apparently he was bugged a lot. I sure as hell didn't need clarification of timeline is of minor concern, tech is...

You would be right but all i did was send him 2 posts and a thank you after. Im sure he meant "We're done with the picking process". Im not like you who does barrage him with post after post. Also yea the minor thing was before he actually clarified what he was talking about thus why this time he went into more detail.

Edited by LastKhan, 13 January 2016 - 01:15 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

maybe if it made the sadder Badder madder, it would feel compelled to work out, lose some of that spare tire, pick up some speed and compete.....

Adder (and Urbanmech) best underdog mechs. People ignore them at their peril. Slow, large light or not, 4x A-SRM6 and an ERSLas HURT. And since it's an Adder, 7/10 times people ignore it for practically any other mech near it. They then promptly turn into a cloud of scrap metal vapor. :3

[Navid A1]

How about....

F* the timeline.

Seriously... aside from the beloved urbie, who in their right mind would pay money for doa mechs and then spend a year finding "viable builds" for them to not suck.?
and then after failing that, come on the forums asking for giga-buff quirks... because they suck.

You can prevent that today.... #F*thetimeline

[Bishop Steiner]

Navid A1, on 13 January 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

How about....

F* the timeline.

Seriously... aside from the beloved urbie, who in their right mind would pay money for doa mechs and then spend a year finding "viable builds" for them to not suck.?
and then after failing that, come on the forums asking for giga-buff quirks... because they suck.

You can prevent that today.... #F*thetimeline

Naw, sorry, but it's already been proven a lot of people will still by "bads".

No offense, but it's not like the Tryhard Legions of MetaLandia use or buy 90% of what's out there anyhow......

It's always about finding that "one true chassis" and or drop deck combo, anyhow.

*shrug*

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

At some point, people need to loosen their belts, trade out their too tighty whities for boxers, sit back, do an Al Bundy


NO!!! YOU ARE ALL AGAINST ME SO YOU DESERVE THE CRAPSTORM OF BAD YOU ARE GOING TO RECEIVE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T INCLUDE MY ONE TRUE UBERMECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey now, take your own advice and do an Al Bundy...

besides I shelled out for the collector Urbi, and you know what Bishop, thank for all the hard work on getting that thing in, she's a lot of fun to run around in.

[Pariah Devalis]

Hell. I have an even crazier idea. Ok, ready?

No new mechs.

Instead, with the potential for power creep and number of variables to balance halted entirely, it would be fantastic if what was already in the game was brought more into line with one another. Underperforming mechs on both tech lines really could use some help. I'm not saying a 40 ton mech should be as good as a 55 ton mech, or a 60 ton mech as good as a 75 ton mech. Just that for both Clan and IS, make it such that a mech is worth its tonnage.


Crazy idea, I know. It won't happen. PGI is a business and requires new revenue, and I don't hold that against them, plus personally speaking I do like getting a new toy to play with every now and then. However, leaping forward to bring in insofar untapped variety of new mechs (and eventually weapons) when the foundation - the mechs that are already here - is uneven seems like folly.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

Naw, sorry, but it's already been proven a lot of people will still by "bads".

No offense, but it's not like the Tryhard Legions of MetaLandia use or buy 90% of what's out there anyhow......

It's always about finding that "one true chassis" and or drop deck combo, anyhow.

*shrug*

You'd be surprised how many some of us tryhards own. I am sitting at 200+ 4 of which are Vindicators :3

Just because the tryhards play the best of the best during practice and matches doesn't mean they don't have nostalgic favorites or pet mechs (some of which are bad).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 January 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[Navid A1]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

Naw, sorry, but it's already been proven a lot of people will still by "bads".

No offense, but it's not like the Tryhard Legions of MetaLandia use or buy 90% of what's out there anyhow......

It's always about finding that "one true chassis" and or drop deck combo, anyhow.

*shrug*

Maybe you are right...

Maybe i'm just tired of asking for help/buffs for the summoner. Tired of seeing a bunch of 2% , 2.5% machinegun range quirks on iconic under performing clan mechs, while BJs laugh in your face and you can't do anything!
Also... i nearly have 160 different variants and i rarely pilot meta... hell my timbies have 2 lrm 10s (because ears)... so, its not a meta tryhard who you're talking to. (and i have a collectors urbie).




And bishop... I can still remember your crusade for urbanmechs... so why are you hating on some people asking for their own pet mechs

.

Edited by Navid A1, 13 January 2016 - 01:33 PM.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 13 January 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Hell. I have an even crazier idea. Ok, ready?

No new mechs.

Instead, with the potential for power creep and number of variables to balance halted entirely, it would be fantastic if what was already in the game was brought more into line with one another. Underperforming mechs on both tech lines really could use some help. I'm not saying a 40 ton mech should be as good as a 55 ton mech, or a 60 ton mech as good as a 75 ton mech. Just that for both Clan and IS, make it such that a mech is worth its tonnage.


Crazy idea, I know. It won't happen. PGI is a business and requires new revenue, and I don't hold that against them, plus personally speaking I do like getting a new toy to play with every now and then. However, leaping forward to bring in insofar untapped variety of new mechs (and eventually weapons) when the foundation - the mechs that are already here - is uneven seems like folly.

I'd settle for some actual roles for mechs to fill, a Dragon is not meant to do the same job as a Thunder Bolt or Orion.... A Centurion is not meant to do the same job as a Hunchback or Shadow Hawk.... You all see where I'm going with this...