138 replies to this topic

[x Barghest x]

Louis Brofist, on 19 January 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

Critical, its a thinking man's map. Expect a lot of hate for it because of precisely this !

Quite the opposite. This is a brain-dead newb map. MOAR LRMs! Yay!!!1!!1

Expect this map to make all PUGs even worse. Every match will be filled with LRM-heavy PUGs because every newb will be wanting to play this map with their LRM-boat, and there is no way to select your mech based on what map you are playing. This map is practically unplayable due to LRM spam, unless you too like to sit back and lob LRMs because you lack the skill to hit anything with a direct fire weapon.

Maybe this is knee-jerk over-reaction on my part, but I can't stand this map. I have only played about 6 matches on it so far, but it seems apparent that random PUGs will display even less tactical aptitude than ever before now that their easy LRM build has been validated with this map.

When the enemy team has lots of LRMs you have only two choices: you can survive long enough to be the last one killed if you hide, or you can get targeted and focus-fired to death by LRM spam in less than 3 seconds when you try to close. And since Clan LRMs have no minimum range, closing on clan mechs with LRMs does no good anyways.

Maybe I will just take a break from MWO until my Archer comes out and I can load up my ARC-5W with nine LRMs.

[Tripzter]

The map is garbage and should be removed and until it does, i'll spam LRMs because... well why not? Who would rather run around and duck and hide when they can just spam lrms from 700 meters away and get 1200 dmg games?

Edited by Tripzter, 19 January 2016 - 11:04 PM.

[Aethon]

x Barghest x, on 19 January 2016 - 11:02 PM, said:

Quite the opposite. This is a brain-dead newb map. MOAR LRMs! Yay!!!1!!1

Expect this map to make all PUGs even worse. Every match will be filled with LRM-heavy PUGs because every newb will be wanting to play this map with their LRM-boat, and there is no way to select your mech based on what map you are playing. This map is practically unplayable due to LRM spam, unless you too like to sit back and lob LRMs because you lack the skill to hit anything with a direct fire weapon.

Maybe this is knee-jerk over-reaction on my part, but I can't stand this map. I have only played about 6 matches on it so far, but it seems apparent that random PUGs will display even less tactical aptitude than ever before now that their easy LRM build has been validated with this map.

When the enemy team has lots of LRMs you have only two choices: you can survive long enough to be the last one killed if you hide, or you can get targeted and focus-fired to death by LRM spam in less than 3 seconds when you try to close. And since Clan LRMs have no minimum range, closing on clan mechs with LRMs does no good anyways.

Maybe I will just take a break from MWO until my Archer comes out and I can load up my ARC-5W with nine LRMs.

Tripzter, on 19 January 2016 - 11:03 PM, said:

The map is garbage and should be removed and until it does, i'll spam LRMs because... well why not? Who would rather run around and duck and hide when they can just spam lrms from 700 meters away and get 1200 dmg games?

Cover, ECM, AMS, and Radar Deprivation are wonderful things. Give them a try sometime.

And before you tell me there is no cover...there is cover plenty tall enough to break locks, especially when you run Radar Deprivation.

[Wrathful Scythe]

Maybe people learn to use AMS now. 3-4 mechs with AMS and LRMs aren't a big problem anymore. But who am I kidding, people and learning?

LRMs are OP! - What? AMS/ECM/Radar Derp is a thing....? - F*ck you, LRMs are OP you noob! PGI ruined my life!

[Aethon]

Wrathful Scythe, on 19 January 2016 - 11:26 PM, said:

Maybe people learn to use AMS now. 3-4 mechs with AMS and LRMs aren't a big problem anymore. But who am I kidding, people and learning?

LRMs are OP! - What? AMS/ECM/Radar Derp is a thing....? - F*ck you, LRMs are OP you noob! PGI ruined my life!

Or, if they get particularly thick, you can hop in a Kit Fox with triple AMS, AMS Overload, and AMS Range Boost. Just find a hole to sit in somewhere in front of your main group, and enjoy the rage as even a 60-missile salvo will not get through.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Aethon, on 19 January 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

Or, if they get particularly thick, you can hop in a Kit Fox with triple AMS, AMS Overload, and AMS Range Boost. Just find a hole to sit in somewhere in front of your main group, and enjoy the rage as even a 60-missile salvo will not get through.

Saw one of those yesterday actually. We had to play hunt the Kit fox... Never has a Kit Fox been so problematic!

Edited by DV McKenna, 19 January 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[Wrathful Scythe]

Aethon, on 19 January 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

Or, if they get particularly thick, you can hop in a Kit Fox with triple AMS, AMS Overload, and AMS Range Boost. Just find a hole to sit in somewhere in front of your main group, and enjoy the rage as even a 60-missile salvo will not get through.

Honestly, I have a support kitfox fitted with 3 AMS; ECM and Narc. Weaponwise its a bit lacking, though LPL with ERML still hurt. If my Warhammers are mastered, I might drop with it again for some fun.

[Aethon]

DV McKenna, on 19 January 2016 - 11:42 PM, said:

Saw one of those yesterday actually. We had to play hunt the Kit fox... Never has a Kit Fox been so problematic!

The Troll Fox is pretty amusing. Every electronic doodad known to man (at this point in the timeline). Unfortunately, it is pretty slow, and oversized at the moment (look at one next to a Jenner sometime, lol).

[patataman]

If LRM's are the problem... equip or use one of the many counters to LRM.

AMS, dual AMS, triple AMS.
ECM.
COVER (the map is FULL of trenches).
SCOUTING.
SHOOT UAV's.
HARASS THE LURM BOATS.
(edit, i forgot the:) RADAR DERP MODULE.

For me, this map is a 10/10. I didn't play yet with any assault because i had so muuuuuuch fun with lights, i guess the distance can be a bit problematic for the slowest (atlas, dire, king crab)... but that's countered with good scouts that tell you where the red team is, right?

Edited by patataman, 19 January 2016 - 11:50 PM.

[ChapeL]

I played it once so far ( I work when PGI releases their patches ) and I loved the fact that two minutes in, our team still had not made contact with the enemy main force. So much so that out little ninja mechs started remembering that their speed made them pretty good scouts and spotters. Not all of them mind you, some looked desperately for the nearest assault to gank and were preobably considering our own big guys when contact was called!

Kidding aside, I was impressed at how many avenues of approach there was on such a nominally flat map. Seems oddly frendly to brawlers as long as they are fast and patient. Standing in the open is death as an enemy Warhammer soon learned. I saw plenty of cover as long as you kept your situational awareness high and even more means of flanking... Battle started around I8 and moved towards J8 where it turned into a brawl. I wonder how interesting it would be to fight in the small refinery type installation that was nearby.

Come to think of it, I'm looking forward to this one on conquest...

[jss78]

Aethon, on 19 January 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

Or, if they get particularly thick, you can hop in a Kit Fox with triple AMS, AMS Overload, and AMS Range Boost. Just find a hole to sit in somewhere in front of your main group, and enjoy the rage as even a 60-missile salvo will not get through.

My main account is T2, and there LRM's still didn't appear to get that much done on this map. First, people were fairly systematic at shooting down UAV's. Second, people tend to run Radar Derp more: while there isn't enough cover to block LRM's, it's actually easy to duck enough to break LRM locks, the way the terrain undulates pretty much everywhere.

My clanner alt is T4, and there LRM's definitely appeared to be more of a thing. People are bad at spotting UAV's and don't run modules as much. I had a fun couple of hours rolling around in my ECM+3xAMS Kit Fox .

[Cellinor]

Unless I am bringing my LRM boat I will be avoiding this map like the plague. Beautiful but no fun for me.

[Peter Overheater]

Perfect Map for my Hellbringer with Gauss and 2ERLL Did free the way up to my brawler Team with supressing the enemy from long range (Just keep em down in the channels) and taking down their UAV's. Then my team came close enough and we won.

Despite PGI should bring up more quirks for Clan Mechs and reduce the insane Quirks for IS (at least the uber ones) i have to say

"Well done"

[Karl Streiger]

Tripzter, on 19 January 2016 - 11:03 PM, said:

The map is garbage and should be removed and until it does, i'll spam LRMs because... well why not? Who would rather run around and duck and hide when they can just spam lrms from 700 meters away and get 1200 dmg games?

Because most of my need need what? 14sec to cross this distance to put you out of your misery

Its not a long range map .... as long as you are so stupid to cross the hill on its upper side.... there are deep trenches that can hide a company - then there are bases ... between trenches and open plains.... move you shite map in those bases if you are affraid of LRM.... LRM depends heavy on the failure of the other team

yes bring more LRM boats, moar easy kills

Edited by Karl Streiger, 20 January 2016 - 12:31 AM.

[William Mountbank]

Mcgral18, on 19 January 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

Wonderful for poptarts

I know what you mean, but I think it's not actually that great of a map for sniping. It's too easy for a scout to flank and spot the enemy, while the rest of the team close to brawling range completely unscathed, just by following the ruts.

But who wants to do that when you can run straight for the centre, and then all stand exposed on the tallest hill around in AC10 heavies while whining about lurms and snipers.

TLDR, it's creepy how much my all white Raven 3L loves this map! And yet it still makes the Huginn a beast....

[stoogah]

There is no need for any advanced tattics. Equip ams and thats it. Whole team with ams (some mechs with dual and I will even bring my triple ams nova) and lrm problem solved. It's really stupid to bash the map and lrms when you can counter it so easy.

The thing is you won't do it on your own BUT people will learn to bring ams to battle after 10th death by lrm boat. Give it time. Just in case, just for this map. OR.. no one will vote for it which will be stupid since as far as I remember people want mechwarrior, not arenawarrior.

[Averen]

x Barghest x, on 19 January 2016 - 11:02 PM, said:

Quite the opposite. This is a brain-dead newb map. MOAR LRMs! Yay!!!1!!1

Expect this map to make all PUGs even worse. Every match will be filled with LRM-heavy PUGs because every newb will be wanting to play this map with their LRM-boat, and there is no way to select your mech based on what map you are playing. This map is practically unplayable due to LRM spam, unless you too like to sit back and lob LRMs because you lack the skill to hit anything with a direct fire weapon.

Maybe this is knee-jerk over-reaction on my part, but I can't stand this map. I have only played about 6 matches on it so far, but it seems apparent that random PUGs will display even less tactical aptitude than ever before now that their easy LRM build has been validated with this map.

When the enemy team has lots of LRMs you have only two choices: you can survive long enough to be the last one killed if you hide, or you can get targeted and focus-fired to death by LRM spam in less than 3 seconds when you try to close. And since Clan LRMs have no minimum range, closing on clan mechs with LRMs does no good anyways.

Maybe I will just take a break from MWO until my Archer comes out and I can load up my ARC-5W with nine LRMs.

Tbh, I don't think so at all. There is so much cover, you can easily pop in and out of the countless small ravines, firing a few shots at lrm boats and hiding in no time when receiving fire. As much as this is an open map, you'll actually have cover absolutely everywhere. Nothing kills an lrm boat faster than some hillhumping long/mid-range sniper, and this is the perfect map for that style.

A map like canyon network is much worse, because there you'll be most of the time either in open field OR behind an insurmountable canyon, with no additional cover and no way to escape. At the same time an lrm-boat behind another canyon is nearly untouchable, while on polar highlands you'll never have anything blocking your way.

I think it's a bit overreaction. Lets wait how the meta developes, all new maps tend to be played in certain ways after some time. I

Edited by Averen, 20 January 2016 - 01:14 AM.

[a Cat piloting a BattleMech]

I really like the new map.
Sure, at first i thought "OMG LRM hell/snipers!!1!" like many others, but after playing the map several times it was always the team with the better flanking manuver which cleaned out the snipers behind their little snowforts, mostly at knifefight range, because of all the ditches and ravines this map has.
I like scouting, i like my close range raven and this map makes it work (made it work on alpine, too). I only wish I had the XP for radar deprivation on my heavier mechs.

[Kilo 40]

x Barghest x, on 19 January 2016 - 11:02 PM, said:

Maybe this is knee-jerk over-reaction on my part,

ya think?

[Averen]

Bird of Paradise, on 20 January 2016 - 01:10 AM, said:

I really like the new map.
Sure, at first i thought "OMG LRM hell/snipers!!1!" like many others, but after playing the map several times it was always the team with the better flanking manuver which cleaned out the snipers behind their little snowforts, mostly at knifefight range, because of all the ditches and ravines this map has.
I like scouting, i like my close range raven and this map makes it work (made it work on alpine, too). I only wish I had the XP for radar deprivation on my heavier mechs.

Yep, that was my experience as well. First thought seeing the pics on instagramm was indeed along the lines of 'OMGWTFLRMPGIPLSFIXNURFOKTHXBAI', but it played out a lot more dynamic than expected.

That said, most new maps are kinda dynamic before a meta settles. I think this one should be a bit more future proof, tho.