387 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

WarHippy, on 03 February 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

This just doesn't seem like a good argument to me. All the big units are/were IS as such the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the Clan side were getting slaughtered, and the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the IS side were having a rough time actually getting matches because of overpopulation on their side. By allowing MS to move without delay the casuals and lore enthusiasts gained the benefit of having population issues decreased on the IS side, and the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the Clan side got some much needed organized reinforcements.

Missed my point. I'm not talking about matches in CW. I'm talking about what Sandpit said above. We casuals and lore enthusiasts constantly provide feedback on ways we believe the game can be improved and fixed only to be ignored and called dirty lore purists while PGI takes its leads from comp players who care very little about what Battletech/Mechwarrior actually is.

[TexAce]

MischiefSC, on 03 February 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

Any time someone gets special treatment it's BS. Come on guys, this isn't rocket science.

"Hey, you do this thing to help us and we'll do you this favor". The implication being you wouldn't have gone Clan at all if not given special treatment?

Do you guys not understand how that looks and the inherent entitlement that carries? What you're doing is helping build a case for big units being a bad thing for the game. It's a bad choice and stupidly (people being what they are) will likely get more attention than the charity event (which is a good thing and very cool).

Don't do this kind of thing. When you try and leverage stuff like this for special treatment all you do is motivate everyone else to degrade the value of your leverage. Waiting three days to go Clans wouldn't have made a big difference. Saying you're too big to play be the same rules or that you need concessions to "do everyone a favor" doesn't make is a "favor". That is PGI doing YOU a favor because of an implied "or else".

Very reasonable and well argumented post. I wish I could express myself in what is a foreign language to me like that, I would have put it in my OP.

[Revis Volek]

WarHippy, on 03 February 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

This just doesn't seem like a good argument to me. All the big units are/were IS as such the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the Clan side were getting slaughtered, and the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the IS side were having a rough time actually getting matches because of overpopulation on their side. By allowing MS to move without delay the casuals and lore enthusiasts gained the benefit of having population issues decreased on the IS side, and the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the Clan side got some much needed organized reinforcements.

So PGI just need to get their stuff together and addres this issue so its isnt one. Place Garrison Limits on the factions so that if more then 12.5% of the total CW pop is in one faction AND you join you get reduced cbill earning due to OVER GARRISON.

Then units will go where they are needed and where they can actually MAKE the proper amount of cbills.

Edited by Revis Volek, 03 February 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Revis Volek, on 03 February 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

So PGI just need to get there stuff together and addres this issue so its isnt one. Place Garrison Limits on the factions so that if more then 12.5% of the total CW pop is in one faction AND you join you get reduced cbill earning due to OVER GARRISON.

Then units will go where they are needed and where they can actually MAKE the proper amount of cbills.

This. Don't restrict people from joining a faction, but you can entice them with more rewards or fewer.

[RussianWolf]

WarHippy, on 03 February 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

I agree a system like that sounds good, but it still doesn't prevent lopsided factions. If everyone is getting better contract offers to balance out the factions what is to stop them from all switching and ending up in the exact same boat only now they are less likely to switch again because they burned their bridges so to speak? Only give certain groups the more lucrative contract offers so only some will switch instead of most/all? That is essentially the same kind of shady backroom kind of deal that people are complaining about now with PGI and MS.

I just don't think PGI has the wherewithal to make a system like that and have it not end up convoluted and frustrating for the players. CW really needs to go back to the drawing board by first determining exactly what they want and what the players want. That is something that needs a lot more discussion and input than twitter or even a town hall discussion can provide.

It would have to be a dynamic system. Contracts would be posted on the "Board" and the first to accept would be the only one to get that contract. So you wouldn't be able to have mass jumps. The game can then issue contracts as need to "balance" itself. It would no longer be shady backroom stuff and instead a part of the game (like real life).

I'll point to the contract system in Elite Dangerous in how they are dynamic, so I know it can be done.... just don't know if PGI can do it.

[TexAce]

RussianWolf, on 03 February 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

It would have to be a dynamic system. Contracts would be posted on the "Board" and the first to accept would be the only one to get that contract. So you wouldn't be able to have mass jumps. The game can then issue contracts as need to "balance" itself. It would no longer be shady backroom stuff and instead a part of the game (like real life).

I'll point to the contract system in Elite Dangerous in how they are dynamic, so I know it can be done.... just don't know if PGI can do it.

They can, its just so damn hard to convince them to do the right thing.

[Revis Volek]

MischiefSC, on 03 February 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

Any time someone gets special treatment it's BS. Come on guys, this isn't rocket science.

"Hey, you do this thing to help us and we'll do you this favor". The implication being you wouldn't have gone Clan at all if not given special treatment?

Do you guys not understand how that looks and the inherent entitlement that carries? What you're doing is helping build a case for big units being a bad thing for the game. It's a bad choice and stupidly (people being what they are) will likely get more attention than the charity event (which is a good thing and very cool).

Don't do this kind of thing. When you try and leverage stuff like this for special treatment all you do is motivate everyone else to degrade the value of your leverage. Waiting three days to go Clans wouldn't have made a big difference. Saying you're too big to play be the same rules or that you need concessions to "do everyone a favor" doesn't make is a "favor". That is PGI doing YOU a favor because of an implied "or else".

This is my issue with it, its just another reason to lump all BIG units together as the bogey man like the community has been for years and now we have PGI giving them more ammunition and more reason to hate us.

Again, bad move.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 03 February 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

No, it's not irrelevant. Call it something else, like this:



but not "favoritism".




It's just a highly temporary fix to a bad situation.




Why care about the "tinfoil brigade"?




Not everything is black and white. I see this as one of those exceptions. YMMV of course.

PGI should care

They (actually Russ) sent a very bad message to their community just now.

Don't like it? Just get a large unit together and dictate to PGI what the rules are going to be and selectively apply them to everyone else.

Not once have I said anything about the switch itself, that's unimportant honestly. It's how this was handled. It's no different than a referee stopping a game and then letting half the team on one side switch sides because the game was "out of hand" and it's more fun this way.

What it really says at its core is "The rules don't mean anything. They're just placeholders and we apply them selectively. It doesn't matter that you spent your hours, money, etc. into something based on a set of rules because we'll only apply them when and where we want arbitrarily"

Is the switch a good thing for CW?
I dunno, I don't see how it changes anything for anyone that isn't on the clan border so I'd like to know exactly how this "improves" CW for
Marik
Liao
Davion

Please explain to me if it's truly for the "betterment" of CW, then why doesn't it change a solitary thing for anyone but a select few players in Russ' ear on Twitter?

Rules were broken
Rules were arbitrarily broken without any discussion or commentary or explanation (I paid money just like they did, I'm sick and tired of not getting the same consideration they do. "They" being anyone, not specifically MS)
The entire landscape of CW, the map, the matches, player numbers, etc. were changed drastically by circumventing the rules.

[StonedVet]

Just have another unit ask on Twitter. See what happens and then draw conclusions. Either way it's win win for clan world's a.d I for one am happy to see more world's go their way

[Metus regem]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

PGI should care

They (actually Russ) sent a very bad message to their community just now.

Don't like it? Just get a large unit together and dictate to PGI what the rules are going to be and selectively apply them to everyone else.

Not once have I said anything about the switch itself, that's unimportant honestly. It's how this was handled. It's no different than a referee stopping a game and then letting half the team on one side switch sides because the game was "out of hand" and it's more fun this way.

What it really says at its core is "The rules don't mean anything. They're just placeholders and we apply them selectively. It doesn't matter that you spent your hours, money, etc. into something based on a set of rules because we'll only apply them when and where we want arbitrarily"

Is the switch a good thing for CW?
I dunno, I don't see how it changes anything for anyone that isn't on the clan border so I'd like to know exactly how this "improves" CW for
Marik
Liao
Davion

Please explain to me if it's truly for the "betterment" of CW, then why doesn't it change a solitary thing for anyone but a select few players in Russ' ear on Twitter?

Rules were broken
Rules were arbitrarily broken without any discussion or commentary or explanation (I paid money just like they did, I'm sick and tired of not getting the same consideration they do. "They" being anyone, not specifically MS)
The entire landscape of CW, the map, the matches, player numbers, etc. were changed drastically by circumventing the rules.

Thank you Sandpit for summing up my problem with what happened.

[nehebkau]

Mead, on 03 February 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

I never did find out exactly how many members a unit needs to not be considered a waste of humanity... :/

31.4579 members exactly. You are welcome.

and really, -MS- moving hasn't changed anything because -MS- 12-mans are attacking. So, ya, I guess they get to seal club but don't really contribute because the planet they took in the wave before gets taken back because only PUGs are defending it.

I know, PUGS never attack so someone has to do it -- just a no win situation. While this is no indictment of -MS- I really think that PGI should hard-cap the size of non-loyalist units. It is just too hard to balance for such large swings in ACTIVE population. It's something that PGI should have considered much earlier.

Edited by nehebkau, 03 February 2016 - 12:29 PM.

[cSand]

TBH all this drama garbage is more of a commentary on how sad the state of the game is in (CW anyways), when the entire game mode is run by handful of too-large units who can basically do what they want, and as has been proven multiple times in the past already, if they see changes they don't like, they f**k the game until it they get what they want

So yea, this just in: the clowns run the circus. Same news as yesterday.

Edited by cSand, 03 February 2016 - 12:31 PM.

[Khereg]

MischiefSC, on 03 February 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

Any time someone gets special treatment it's BS. Come on guys, this isn't rocket science.

But I'd say running a business sometimes requires you to do things that may be somewhat out of the ordinary for the sake of the greater good. I personally like that PGI is willing to assess the situation and make a judgment call that betters the game without suffering from excessive bureaucratic red tape.

You know what you get with red tape? The development progress they made with IGP at the helm...

As long as they use their powers for good, I'm ok with it. I wouldn't have cared if it was 228, KCom, SroT, SWOL or any other group that suggested it. The fact that it was -MS- is irrelevant. If it's -MS- supposedly benefiting from this that has you torqued, then I'd say your issue is your perception of -MS- and not the actual events that transpired.

After all, -MS- only offered. Russ accepted. If Russ had said no, we would have taken our vote as planned, let our contract expire, and moved on to the voted faction last night. We and the larger community would have suffered 3 days of limited matches in CW as a result. I personally think this outcome is better for everyone on the whole.

Edited by Khereg, 03 February 2016 - 12:27 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Lowridah, on 03 February 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

Just have another unit ask on Twitter. See what happens and then draw conclusions. Either way it's win win for clan world's a.d I for one am happy to see more world's go their way

Be an interesting test. Who are the contenders? 228? They were also mentioned in Russ' "disdain" thread.

[Mead]

nehebkau, on 03 February 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

31.4579 members exactly. You are welcome.

Well, #32 won't like having that amputation done, but if it's for a good cause, we should be able to hold him down long enough to get it done.

[StonedVet]

I know our contract is ready for renewal. I'll ask the leaders later about trying. I don't follow Twitter so request wouldn't be from me

[Khereg]

Lowridah, on 03 February 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

Just have another unit ask on Twitter. See what happens and then draw conclusions. Either way it's win win for clan world's a.d I for one am happy to see more world's go their way

You'd have to recreate the situation to have a valid test. So, first, create a substantial population imbalance in CW, THEN offer to correct it.

Edited by Khereg, 03 February 2016 - 12:34 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Khereg, on 03 February 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

You'd have to recreate the situation to have a valid test. So, first, create a substantial population imbalance in CW, THEN offer to correct it.

I think NOT having the imbalance is a necessity. It'll define if this was done "for the game" and if the same will be given to other units without that requirement.

[StonedVet]

Khereg, on 03 February 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

You'd have to recreate the situation to have a valid test. So, first, create a substantial population imbalance in CW, THEN offer to correct it.

This still is an issue. One large clan switching doesn't just up and remedy anything. It's just a step towards a more balanced population. Other clans then smoke jag are hurting for numbers as well

[Sandpit]

cSand, on 03 February 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

TBH all this drama garbage is more of a commentary on how sad the state of the game is in (CW anyways), when the entire game mode is run by handful of too-large units who can basically do what they want, and as has been proven multiple times in the past already, if they see changes they don't like, they f**k the game until it they get what they want

So yea, this just in: the clowns run the circus. Same news as yesterday.

unfortunately

I'll send my money to MS instead. They seem to be the ones running things anyhow.

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

Be an interesting test. Who are the contenders? 228? They were also mentioned in Russ' "disdain" thread.

Which wouldn't show anything we haven't already pointed out.

how about this instead.

Someone in a unit with less than 15 ask Russ to break the rules for them and see what he says.