1094 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

DoctorDetroit, on 11 February 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

Well of course most mechs die from losing their CT... that is obvious. However, if you are trying to say most mechs are brought down by focusing the CT only without damage spread, you are a liar.

Die from losing a CT and getting cored out can be different. "cored out" implies the rest is intact, and it's what I see in my matches, maybe because I can shoot, your milage may vary.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

adamts01, on 11 February 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

"cored out" implies the rest is intact

No, "cored out" or just "cored" means a vital component (torso, head, legs) is down to internals, as it has meant for years. It doesn't take into account anything else other than one of those sections.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 11 February 2016 - 07:31 AM.

[DoctorDetroit]

adamts01, on 11 February 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

Die from losing a CT and getting cored out can be different. "cored out" implies the rest is intact, and it's what I see in my matches, maybe because I can shoot, your milage may vary.

You are so full of it. Not only are you saying you always hit ct, which is not that unreasonable for a good player fighting bad players. You are trying to sell us on the idea that nobody else is spreading damage across these mechs. 11 other players in a drop and they all hit CT only. Really? Is this an SJR vs SWOL match or something? Even then...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

DoctorDetroit, on 11 February 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

You are so full of it. Not only are you saying you always hit ct, which is not that unreasonable for a good player fighting bad players. You are trying to sell us on the idea that nobody else is spreading damage across these mechs. 11 other players in a drop and they all hit CT only. Really? Is this an SJR vs SWOL match or something? Even then...

Well it depends on the style of engagement, ERLL fights tend to spread damage all around. Unless you are playing a mech that is just a CT with legs, most mechs tend to spread a lot of damage to their sides naturally.

Brawls tend to be leg day outside of some special cases (Atlases, Jenners) so you wont see much spread unless it is one of the special cases.

Mid-range engagements are ones that tend to be the most accurate, and you can still spread damage.

[adamts01]

DoctorDetroit, on 11 February 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

You are so full of it. Not only are you saying you always hit ct, which is not that unreasonable for a good player fighting bad players. You are trying to sell us on the idea that nobody else is spreading damage across these mechs. 11 other players in a drop and they all hit CT only. Really? Is this an SJR vs SWOL match or something? Even then...

I'm not great, but all the Steam players filling up their XP bars have made it pretty easy. It wasn't like this even 2 months ago.

[DoctorDetroit]

adamts01, on 11 February 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

I'm not great, but all the Steam players filling up their XP bars have made it pretty easy. It wasn't like this even 2 months ago.

Theoretically new steam players shouldn't even be in your matches.

[Mystere]

IronClaws, on 10 February 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

No, that is entirely what is possible if an RNG COF system is implemented.

You're really clueless about "for illustration purposes only" and "normal distribution", aren't you?

[Dagorlad13]

Mystere, on 11 February 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

You're really clueless about "for illustration purposes only" and "normal distribution", aren't you?

No, any RNG COF is a slippery slope that does not need to be traversed. I have played this game for four years partly because it is NOT like all the other shooters and it irritates me that people keep wanting to change it into just another dumbed-down shooter. We already had 3PV forced upon us after being promised that it would never be in the game, so I do not want to see another mainstream shooter system pushed on us.

Edited by IronClaws, 11 February 2016 - 08:44 AM.

[Mystere]

IronClaws, on 11 February 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

No, any RNG COF is a slippery slope that does not need to be traversed. I have played this game for four years partly because it is NOT like all the other shooters and it irritates me that people keep wanting to change it into just another dumbed-down shooter. We already had 3PV forced upon us after being promised that it would never be in the game, so I do not want to see another mainstream shooter system pushed on us.

As I figured, clueless.

[Mead]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 February 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

No, "cored out" or just "cored" means a vital component (torso, head, legs) is down to internals, as it has meant for years. It doesn't take into account anything else other than one of those sections.

It does indeed mean 'one section blown out when others havent been' to a portion of MW/BT gamers, including me. Been using it that way for 30 years or so. Who's right? Doesn't matter. Just remember that it's no longer a singular definition and move forward.

Edited by Mead, 11 February 2016 - 09:04 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Mystere, on 11 February 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

As I figured, clueless.

If they don't mis-characterizse the argument, they cannot win it.

[wanderer]

Quote

Theoretically new steam players shouldn't even be in your matches.

With some luck on your first series of matches, a new player can end up T3.

That's all it takes to be dropped in the shark tank. Worse, since PSR is almost inevitably climbing upwards, you'll keep getting them.

Quote

to change it into just another dumbed-down shooter.

You do realize perfect convergence was a result of PGI dumbing-down the original targeting system, right?

[LordKnightFandragon]

wanderer, on 11 February 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

You do realize perfect convergence was a result of PGI dumbing-down the original targeting system, right?

Lol, IKR!?

[Dagorlad13]

LordKnightFandragon, on 11 February 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

Lol, IKR!?

Arm-lock was added to "help new players", but was exploited by top-tier players, which is the only issue with convergence as far as I am concerned. But direct fire weapons mounted in the same locations( torsos / head, left arm, right arm), should always converge instantly. Now, I do agree that Clan Mechs with one arm that has lower actuators and one that does not, should not have both arms converge with the torsos / head at the same speed though.

[ComradeHavoc]

Mystere, on 10 February 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

Over seven and a half million American dollars?!!!

Where are the RNG complaints? Where are the investigations on the validity of said complaints? Oh no! They must not want the losing players to discover that RNGJesus screwed them over.

Over seven and a half million American dollars?!!! Bonkers!

RNG is just an excuse for meta masters to keep the current system, they're calling it a roll of the dice ignoring modifiers that guarantees pinpoint accuracy versus run n' gun, which is more like CoD then the cone of fire excuse I keep reading about.

[LordKnightFandragon]

IronClaws, on 11 February 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

Arm-lock was added to "help new players", but was exploited by top-tier players, which is the only issue with convergence as far as I am concerned. But direct fire weapons mounted in the same locations( torsos / head, left arm, right arm), should always converge instantly. Now, I do agree that Clan Mechs with one arm that has lower actuators and one that does not, should not have both arms converge with the torsos / head at the same speed though.

Convergeance should not be instant....battlemechs dont move like Gundams and Anime robots...they are clumsy, lumbering machines that while they dont move slowly, arent exactly instant...

I almost like the way the Mauler moves, feels alot more "battlemech" while the lighter or clan mechs feel very anime and gundam with how fast they traverse around.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 11 February 2016 - 09:40 PM.

[Dagorlad13]

LordKnightFandragon, on 11 February 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

Convergeance should not be instant....battlemechs dont move like Gundams and Anime robots...they are clumsy, lumbering machines that while they dont move slowly, arent exactly instant...

I almost like the way the Mauler moves, feels alot more "battlemech" while the lighter or clan mechs feel very anime and gundam with how fast they traverse around.

Reread my post, I said that weapons mounted in fixed locations like the torsos (which do not move independently) should instantly converge, while weapons mounted in the arms should take a longer to converge with the torso / head mounted weapons since they move independently. Actually the game currently works the way I describe if you do not use arm-lock, therefore remove arm-lock from the game and arms will no longer instantly converge with the torso / head.

Also, Battlemechs are tied into the mechwarrior through the neural helmet which it uses to balance and move more like a human (but not as rediculously fast as an anime mecha).

Edited by IronClaws, 11 February 2016 - 10:32 PM.

[Kuritaclan]

Greyhart, on 11 February 2016 - 05:07 AM, said:

what if instead of a cone of fire or fixed convergence if no lock the convergence became less by fixed amounts with certain factors.

for example if you have no lock the convergence point is calculated as 10m behind your current target. (if locked then convergence is perfect or fixed to current target).

If you are above X heat your convergence point is a further 10m behind the target.

And on and on with what ever factors you like.

This isn't random and would be controllable but would "simulate" the fact that the computer is doing stuff on the fly and is slightly inaccurate, but not so inaccurate.

1.) Computers are 0 and 1 - as long as they are not overheated they calculate correctly or give you a error, if it cannot proceed - if they are to hot they don't calculate at all -they don't calculate partially. Not to say that the engineer who made the cooling for the chip should be fired, if that is the case in combat equipment, in BT maybe he is beheaded.
2.) Binding convergence to heat is a bad idea - it will make mechs with hit points that are near to each other superior to those who don't have this luxury.

adamts01, on 11 February 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

Old MW4 Ranger, on 11 February 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

a human being is not breathing
a human being has no muscle tremble
a mech aims not by having to hold the weapon in front of the cockpit with his arm
a mech is a tank on legs
but brings into play weapon damage (weapon is damage inaccurat)
Pilot damage (worse vision, fainting, or very little disturbance by injury, falls, loss of balance)

I'm sorry, I completey missed what you're trying to say.

Why I am not surprised, that you missed it? Humm. You made me giggle adamts01.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 11 February 2016 - 11:16 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

the Most games , im living to the end ,and fight and Kill with only 50% Torsoweapons and 38% Amor ...Instant Kill ?!only ,when I´m move in a uncovered Enemy Group

[pyrocomp]

Kuritaclan, on 11 February 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

1.) Computers are 0 and 1 - as long as they are not overheated they calculate correctly or give you a error, if it cannot proceed - if they are to hot they don't calculate at all -they don't calculate partially.

Not entirely correct. Google for single precision and double precision variables. Just for fun of finding that 0.1+0.1=0.2 will be computed with 10^(-16) error at best on most platforms and on many platforms... Hell, just go to Excel, put 1 in a cell, set next cell to be equal the previous one plis 0.1 and drag that cell out. About 52 cells later (52 operations of adding 0.1) you'll get 6.19999999999999 instead of 6.20000000000000. And that is only 50 sums, precision of square roots is worse. If the calculation algorithm wasn't specifically designed and coded for better precision in specific cases the precision will degrade rapidly and wildly.
Any calculation (via pen and paper or via abacus or via computer) has it's precision. Numerical solutions are not of the highest precision compared to analythical one (if available). So computers do calculations with estimated precision that strongly relies on input data precision (ultra precise rangefinder or positioning sensor with no noise or jitter? never heard of) are non precise and take time. The real time systems almost always use the simplified low precision but fast calculation algorithms.
So the argument of 'precise' computer is not entirely correct. Plus, having precise knowelegde that you need to move that 4 tons a hair to the right does not male that move (and provide no clue how you know that you have moved those tons all the way or a half hair less).