1212 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 February 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

To me, the Huntsman really doesn't do much the HBK-IIC can't already do in a pinch outside of mixing laser and ballistics more effectively, which isn't a big deal imo. If it were a medium wave? Yes, I would take it in a heart beat, but if it we are only allowed one? Naw, the HBK-IIC already does most of its notable roles.

Better hitboxes?

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 February 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, the SCrow is a great mech, but I wouldn't say it obsoletes other mediums. The SCat is better at ERLL and LPL poking, the Nova is better at PPFLD with PPCs, the Nova also has a slight edge with SPL/ERSL boats, the HBK-IIC can run dakka and ballistics. That leaves around 3 roles left for it, and 2 of them involve missiles, the last one involves mid-range laser vomit of some combination.

As I said. "Almost".

About the only thing the SCR cannot do better than or equal to the other medium options if pushed into the job would be ballistics, which the Hunchback obviously excels at. It can still mount three cockpit level lasers to ... acceptably ridge peek like the SHC, though without the ECM. It can mount plenty of MPlas or ERMLas and enough heat sinks to equate to the NVA (ex: 6 MPlas w/ 20 DHS and a TC1 vs NVA with 6 MPLas 18 DHS and 10% cooler MPLas quirks), except it is faster. Plus it has the SRMageddon loadout options that are just plain nasty.

Ballistics and ECM are its two missing points, and in the latter case ECM isn't all it used to be. Now it is more of a selfish device than a powerful team support tool due to that 90m radius bubble.

FupDup, on 29 February 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

Better hitboxes?

This. HNT (HTM? HUN?) probably will come with superior hitboxes over the IIC because of no gigantic side torso cannons, making the mech more durable.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 29 February 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[1453 R]

Now see Pariah, I was following along until you said the Pouncer was good...

On a more serious note, yeah. I don't play CW and despise the very concept of the drop deck game modes, so I don't tend to think of that when making arguments for or against certain 'Mech introductions. It just doesn't occur to me, and that's my bad. Nevertheless, though - the Nova's going to become a much more solid choice in a few months once it's no longer a medium King Kong, and that hits the 50-ton bracket. So does the HBK-IIC, if not perhaps as effectively as the Stormcrow dominates the 55-ton bracket. The Huntsman is the wrong call there, too. Like you said, we don't have any 40-tonners at all, and as much as I've desperately tried to like them both, neither 45-ton option is fantastic.

Really, what it comes down to is a need for a Clan 40-tonner, and of that particular category the overall strongest options, methinks, are the Viper or Phantom. Preferably the Viper; while the Phantom makes me giggle and would, I feel, be quite potent in its one good configuration, it's not nearly as universally useful as a Viper. And as established by 'Mechs like the Adder (i.e. the Pouncer on a diet), machines which fall below a certain footspeed value/tonnage ratio are generally shredded by the community just as hard as machines perceived as having too high a footspeed/tonnage ratio, which would make the Pouncer...questionable. Yeah, I know, it has a 7E configuration the Adder doesn't, but both the Viper and Phantom can beamspam too, and they don't drop down to a sub-250 engine and Stormcrow speeds to do it. They're hot, but part of being fast is the whole hit-and-hide routine, eh?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Elemental

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 29 February 2016 - 08:10 AM.

[Metus regem]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 February 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

Elemental

I would so pilot it. Can you imaging the hit reg issues it would cause with such tiny hit boxes?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Metus regem, on 29 February 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

I would so pilot it. Can you imaging the hit reg issues it would cause with such tiny hit boxes?

It would need it. One hit from a large laser would smear you across the landscape lol.

I'm with you though, I'd pilot it...or at least try to

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 29 February 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

Better hitboxes?

Well, it will be like a bigger Hankyu, so probably, but it also won't have the higher mounts the HBK-IIC has (and won't be able to afford stripping the arms) so there is a slight trade-off (Huntsman still benefits I guess).

Pariah Devalis, on 29 February 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

It can still mount three cockpit level lasers to ... acceptably ridge peek like the SHC, though without the ECM.

Unfortunately for the SCrow, the cockpit is the lowest part of the torso, which forces it to expose almost the entire torso for vertical poke fights, which is partly why the SHC wins out every time. Now for side poking, the SCrow comes out more favorably.

Pariah Devalis, on 29 February 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

It can mount plenty of MPlas or ERMLas and enough heat sinks to equate to the NVA (ex: 6 MPlas w/ 20 DHS and a TC1 vs NVA with 6 MPLas 18 DHS and 10% cooler MPLas quirks), except it is faster.

The quirks changed for the Nova to where you can get more than 10% (13-18%), but boating ERMLs or MPLs aren't really the Nova's strong suit anyway. Which is why I said the SCrow is still one of the stronger mid range laser vomit mechs.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 February 2016 - 08:16 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 February 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

Well, it will be like a bigger Hankyu, so probably, but it also won't have the higher mounts the HBK-IIC has (and won't be able to afford stripping the arms) so there is a slight trade-off (Huntsman still benefits I guess).


Unfortunately for the SCrow, the cockpit is the lowest part of the torso, which forces it to expose almost the entire torso for vertical poke fights, which is partly why the SHC wins out every time. Now for side poking, the SCrow comes out more favorably.


The quirks changed for the Nova to where you can get more than 10% (13-18%), but boating ERMLs or MPLs aren't really the Nova's strong suit anyway. Which is why I said the SCrow is still one of the stronger mid range laser vomit mechs.

Na. 10%. Got one tooled up specifically for MPlas. Each arm is a 2.5 heat 2.5 pulse laser quirk. The rest of the mech is loaded down with structure and armor quirks that, honestly, make the mech feel so much better.

[Pariah Devalis]

1453 R, on 29 February 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

Now see Pariah, I was following along until you said the Pouncer was good...

(snip)

Actually, the Pouncer would be pretty good. 97 before tweak, 15 tons of pod space, "free" jump jets. Up to 8 energy hardpoints, so it has the tonnage and hardpoints available in equal quantities, there, to be a solid option. Has a wide variety of hardpoint types, as well, among its range of omnipods. The Viper isn't terrible but is just a lighter Ice Ferret with less survivability. All that free space is sucked up by twice the jump jets it actually needs to have to jump well. Phantom would be a blast to have, but it is pigeonholed into an ERSLas boat.

[Metus regem]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 February 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

It would need it. One hit from a large laser would smear you across the landscape lol.

I'm with you though, I'd pilot it...or at least try to

Well you'd have that damage all over the Elemental, and you just might survive due to hit box gaps, and well don't be stupid and face tank an ERLL... use your tiny size to trip Dire Wolves, and hide behind pebbles to block all the damage as you close, get between there legs, and crotch shot core them out from below.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 February 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

Na. 10%. Got one tooled up specifically for MPlas. Each arm is a 2.5 heat 2.5 pulse laser quirk. The rest of the mech is loaded down with structure and armor quirks that, honestly, make the mech feel so much better.

They gave the Prime side torsos heat gen quirks . So now you have to choose either extra armor on the sides, heat gen, or energy hardpoints. I prefer heat gen because it allows you to sustain larger alphas making trades more beneficial for you.

Pariah Devalis, on 29 February 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

The Viper isn't terrible but is just a lighter Ice Ferret with less survivability. All that free space is sucked up by twice the jump jets it actually needs to have to jump well.

I wouldn't go that far, it is better than the Ice Ferret in flexibility as far as hardpoints go (run asym builds, MGs if they are ever buffed, Flamers and SPLs), that said it would still need quirks, but even the Cheetah has quirks, so that doesn't seem like too much to ask for on it.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 February 2016 - 08:32 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 February 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

Actually, the Pouncer would be pretty good. 97 before tweak, 15 tons of pod space, "free" jump jets. Up to 8 energy hardpoints, so it has the tonnage and hardpoints available in equal quantities, there, to be a solid option. Has a wide variety of hardpoint types, as well, among its range of omnipods. The Viper isn't terrible but is just a lighter Ice Ferret with less survivability. All that free space is sucked up by twice the jump jets it actually needs to have to jump well. Phantom would be a blast to have, but it is pigeonholed into an ERSLas boat.

hey hey Pa-roo-roo... Viper while less survivable than the Fridge on paper could become MORE survivable due to hitboxes (it is more squat afterall) It also gains the ability to jump and carry more weapons than the Fridge.

Phantom, Pouncer or Viper would all end up as energy builds really..

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 29 February 2016 - 08:34 AM.

[1453 R]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 February 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

Actually, the Pouncer would be pretty good. 97 before tweak, 15 tons of pod space, "free" jump jets. Up to 8 energy hardpoints, so it has the tonnage and hardpoints available in equal quantities, there, to be a solid option. Has a wide variety of hardpoint types, as well, among its range of omnipods. The Viper isn't terrible but is just a lighter Ice Ferret with less survivability. All that free space is sucked up by twice the jump jets it actually needs to have to jump well. Phantom would be a blast to have, but it is pigeonholed into an ERSLas boat.

Being fair, the Ferret also some some of the worst hitboxes in MWO, at least in my experience. Ninety percent of the 'Mech's punch are mounted in arms that come off easier than a stationary Lynx's, and I can always count on my Ferrets, whenever I run them, to get shot exactly where I don't want them to. Can't shield the CT, and whenever I decide "to hell with it" and stop trying, I get shoulders sawn off in one salvo from something.

Stupid frickin' Ferrets.

But yeah. I can't really see how the Viper could have more disastrous hitboxes/geo than the Ferret, especially with the new volumetric scaling math Piranha will be doing for new releases. If the Viper does have a fat nose issue, the entire 'Mech will be smaller to compensate, Crab-style. There's worse things to do than be Crab-style freaking tiny, eh?

[Pariah Devalis]

Lucian Nostra, on 29 February 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

hey hey Pa-roo-roo... Viper while less survivable than the Fridge on paper could become MORE survivable due to hitboxes (it is more squat afterall) It also gains the ability to jump and carry more weapons than the Fridge.

Phantom, Pouncer or Viper would all end up as energy builds really..

Eh. Can slap a UAC10 on the Pouncer or make a Splatbuild. Add the lasers, and that is literally three times the variety of the Viper, realistically. Also, no. It might be squatter, but it's width that makes things harder to hit, not height, and the IFR has such paper thin hitboxes for each torso that it armor rolls accidentally. Plus it is way, way faster.

1453 R, on 29 February 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

Being fair, the Ferret also some some of the worst hitboxes in MWO, at least in my experience. Ninety percent of the 'Mech's punch are mounted in arms that come off easier than a stationary Lynx's, and I can always count on my Ferrets, whenever I run them, to get shot exactly where I don't want them to. Can't shield the CT, and whenever I decide "to hell with it" and stop trying, I get shoulders sawn off in one salvo from something.

Stupid frickin' Ferrets.

But yeah. I can't really see how the Viper could have more disastrous hitboxes/geo than the Ferret, especially with the new volumetric scaling math Piranha will be doing for new releases. If the Viper does have a fat nose issue, the entire 'Mech will be smaller to compensate, Crab-style. There's worse things to do than be Crab-style freaking tiny, eh?

I have the exact opposite experience. The arms catch fire, yeah, but it spreads it like hot butter. I'm usually the last mech standing if things go south, and usually with both side torsos blown out, maybe a leg if they were smart.

[martian]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 February 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

Elemental

I liked piloting one in MW4.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 February 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

It might be squatter, but it's width that makes things harder to hit, not height

It isn't quite as wide as the Nova, I imagine it to be akin to the Crab as far as shape (for torsos and arms) because it is generally is depicted as a nose for a torso.

Though the Ice Ferret will still probably have better hitboxes, with the arms buffed it doesn't lose its arms near as much as it used too which is its main *hitbox* flaw. The torso always spread damage really well, and with the structure buffs it can spread a lot.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 February 2016 - 08:58 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

KINGFISHER W/ECM

[pbiggz]

You know there are 40 ton options ahead of us that aren't one trick horses, or complete ****.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lobo

weird art. tech 2 weapons. Battlemech as well so it has engine flexibility, and a solid mix of missile and energy hardpoints that would be inflated.


Mind you, you still all know what mechs I think should be next.

Gas Guzzler, on 29 February 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

KINGFISHER W/ECM

don't do that to yourself.

[martian]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 February 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

KINGFISHER W/ECM

Two Jihad configurations have ECM. The problem is that both variants have weapons and equipment that is not in MWO.

[Gas Guzzler]

martian, on 29 February 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Two Jihad configurations have ECM. The problem is that both variants have weapons and equipment that is not in MWO.

Russ already said in the townhall, as long as the base variant is in timeline, future variants with weapons that can easily be subbed for current weapons are fair game. Pretty easy to sub in a Gauss rifle for the HAG30 that the Kingfisher F has. In fact, Russ confirmed that EXACT substitution would be possible. Your argument is invalid.

https://twitter.com/...813574571053056

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 29 February 2016 - 09:16 AM.