1212 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

It's not a moot point, the whole reason I'm in here is to keep people informed timeline is not the deciding factor if a mech can come into MWO anymore.

It is, if you don't cherry pick what Russ said in the town hall.

[Widowmaker1981]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

My question is any of you saying it should be these. Are you going to buy these packs? Because that is what is important.

If im honest, i wouldn't buy any Omni pack that didnt contain the Blood Asp or the Nova Cat, preferably both given the $30/mech pricetag. (I know thats not going to happen though, wed get the Gyr and the Turkey so Omnis are a no go)

Id buy anything including the Stone Rhino, i guess thats my version of your MKII in terms of nostalgia lol

Id probably buy a IIC pack, unless they went out of their way to choose bad ones. PHX-IIC would be insta buy.

Battlemech pack is unlikely. I think they will do those as singles, but .. maybe. I do want the Bane.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 09 March 2016 - 10:23 AM.

[LastKhan]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

I don't NASCAR (I can't lol I play the Dire Wolf), I'm just saying it would be a more noob friendly mech. As for the tonnage in CW last time I played Clan was at 260, I took 2 Dire Wolfs, and 2 Artic Cheetahs, never touched the cheetahs while we farmed pugs... That's totally another issue though.

I am really good with my assault normally I'll drop lights in 1-2 shots, I rarely miss. Movement wise though the MK II is above the Dire Wolf in all aspects. Plus, looking toward the future Dire Wolf is going to be even more useless when the Energy Drain mechanic gets added. The only + it has was King of Boating weapons.

Cw does fluxuate on tonnage just saying from my experiences unless its all about defense, taking 90-100 unless its like the exe would take to long to move formations.

the energy draw thing, i do like the concept of how much and engine can handle but until we can see it in action then we can only speculate. I hope it doesnt crap on the dire anymore then the reduced speed tweak did.

Edited by LastKhan, 09 March 2016 - 10:28 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 March 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Kingfisher has 4 and 5 slots in its side torsos (no idea where you got 1), not limiting for energy weapons, and only marginally limiting for missiles (no LRM20, big loss). Its not like its preventing you from putting a Gauss or 2 UAC 10s there. Can still do 2LPLs high mounted there.

Which turkina side torso can carry 4 energy weapons? Is it one way out of timeline or something? That would be useful I suppose but.... 53 kph...

Kingfisher torso has endo ferro and some of its stock locked DHS in the RT Leaving it with a single slot free which is occupied by a ER Medium

Turk C carries 2 Meds and 2 Flamers in the LT

Widowmaker1981, on 09 March 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Is that true about the Kingfisher LT?? If so.. lol. all support for any Omni assault withdrawn. Sod that, and sod turkey, they are both worse than what we have. all good, i just wont buy an Omnipack.

Where are you getting specific mech loadout information, like crit locations etc? i used to use a site called solaris 7 that had most mechs, but it seems to be have been down for months.

the TROs have the listings of whats in each location stock before listing the loadouts, what Ive been looking at.

[pbiggz]

The concern with the turkina is that its a strictly worse direwhale.

Worse hardpoints
less podspace

same top speed slow.

Other options, such as the blood asp and the MK II have more potential to be workable assaults. Even the kingfisher brings something the turkina can't, though I don't care for another clone of the executioner.

The reason people in clans dont tie their drop deck tonnage up with assaults is because, as i said before, the biggest commonly fielded mech among the clans in CW is the timberwolf, and only the direwolf and highlander IIC can really surpass the timberwolf in firepower right now. The rest of the assaults can basically match the timberwolf in firepower, so why take them over the timberwolf?

Thats why I advocate for the MK II if its a battlemech, and Blood Asp if its an omni.

PS:

Its safe to assume the kingfisher AND turkina would be underwhelming without significant quirks, which PGI has proven now on multiple occasions that they are not willing to give to the clans. If that changes, then my opinion on the turkina at least changes.

Edited by pbiggz, 09 March 2016 - 10:43 AM.

[LastKhan]

pbiggz, on 09 March 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

The reason people in clans dont tie their drop deck tonnage up with assaults is because, as i said before, the biggest commonly fielded mech among the clans in CW is the timberwolf, and only the direwolf and highlander IIC can really surpass the timberwolf in firepower right now. The rest of the assaults can basically match the timberwolf in firepower, so why take them over the timberwolf?

Thats why I advocate for the MK II if its a battlemech, and Blood Asp if its an omni.

Honestly i would rather take the sexecutioner or garggles over an MK2 anyday. Faster to form up on rushes, nimble and packs a suitable amounts of energys, and does well in skirmishes with hit and run tactics. thats just me.

Edited by LastKhan, 09 March 2016 - 10:46 AM.

[pbiggz]

LastKhan, on 09 March 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

Honestly i would rather take the sexecutioner or garggles over an MK2 anyday. Faster to form up on rushes, nimble and packs a suitable amounts of energys, and does well in skirmishes with hit and run tactics. thats just me.

I disagree? MK II would have a high engine cap so it could go just as fast as the exe if you wanted it to. Even stock it keeps up with IS heavies and some of the slower clan heavies.

Im tired of clan assaults that are objectively worse than the timberwolf, which doesn't even have that much firepower as far as clan heavies are concerned. (see nova cat). Either clan assaults are REALLY slow, way over-engined.

Edited by pbiggz, 09 March 2016 - 10:50 AM.

[Imperius]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 March 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

It is, if you don't cherry pick what Russ said in the town hall.

Same could be said to your side of the argument, he said its all up for grabs that simple, but with his PC's it feels weird to jump ahead a bit, at the same time he understands there are less desirable mechs left at this point (for clans).

[Sniper09121986]

Odanan, on 08 March 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

For an OmniMech pack:

- Fire Moth (most voted light omni in the polls)
- Viper or Black Lanner (the 2 most voted mediums in the polls)
- Night Gyr (undisputed best remaining heavy omnimech for the 50s, also most voted heavy omni in the polls)
- Kingfisher or Turkina (the 2 most voted assault mechs in the polls)

Sadly, Fire Moth is not happening any time soon, because CryEngine. So Fire Falcon is pretty much a lock, which is actually not bad at all.

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

I will concede that the Angry Kitten would be more META than the Turkina but I don't think mech design and choice should ever devolve into whats meta and whats not meta and adding only the meta.

There are plenty of good mechs in MWO that get ragged on because they don't fit the meta to a T and theres a bunch more that with simple tweaks could be made a lot better (Summoner which is already pretty good)

The Turkina would be a very solid assault even if it gets stuck with the same torso twist and turn speed as the Wolf, its got a ton of armor, and a crap load of firepower and a bit more manuverability than the Dire Wolf does (when you factor in tossing 3 JJs on a dire wolf it's avail tonnage for guns is 44.5 vs the turkinas 42)

So yeah I'd pick the Turkina over the Mad Cat. more punch, same aprox jumping ability, more armor and a more flattened torso should give it a better poking profile than the MK II does as theres less mech to expose before you crest your cockpit

Well, that is nice. Now it depends on the quirks and design more than anything, since I imagine everyone even remotely interested in assaults has a DWF already. PGI will have to differentiate this mech somehow, we will see how they do.

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

I hope you realize while you are right on the slots the turkina has 5 free slots per side while the kingfisher has 1 whole slot available on its RT and the same 5 free on it's LT

Gas Guzzler, on 09 March 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Kingfisher has 4 and 5 slots in its side torsos (no idea where you got 1)

My TRO-3058 says Kingfisher has 4 free slots in the right torso and 5 in the left one, so there is that. Also for the love of all the things I cannot understand why, why would anyone even think of releasing it now that we have Executioner and Kodiak already? Kodiak may carry a STD engine (or any engine for that matter) and zombie like a boss with those bellybutton energy hardpoints. Executioner has shoulder level torso hardpoints and all possible mobility for its weight class. Did I mention they both have more armour? If PGI transfer to Unreal engine it will allow new tech, new mechs (and possibly Fire Moth, yes ), then Bloody Arse is all but a lock to appear in the game and tear the meta to bloody tatters. Why then implement a mech it directly descends from? Especially since by the time of Operation Revival it has been obsolete anyway.

Edited by Sniper09121986, 09 March 2016 - 10:53 AM.

[Metus regem]

pbiggz, on 09 March 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

The concern with the turkina is that its a strictly worse direwhale.

Worse hardpoints
less podspace

same top speed slow.

Other options, such as the blood asp and the MK II have more potential to be workable assaults. Even the kingfisher brings something the turkina can't, though I don't care for another clone of the executioner.

The reason people in clans dont tie their drop deck tonnage up with assaults is because, as i said before, the biggest commonly fielded mech among the clans in CW is the timberwolf, and only the direwolf and highlander IIC can really surpass the timberwolf in firepower right now. The rest of the assaults can basically match the timberwolf in firepower, so why take them over the timberwolf?

Thats why I advocate for the MK II if its a battlemech, and Blood Asp if its an omni.

PS:

Its safe to assume the kingfisher AND turkina would be underwhelming without significant quirks, which PGI has proven now on multiple occasions that they are not willing to give to the clans. If that changes, then my opinion on the turkina at least changes.

What do you think about the Warhammer IIC, an 80t assault mech, that when fitted with an cXL engine (320 rated, so same speed as the Mk II), cFF armour and cEndo steel, is pushing 44.5t of pod space? It's less weight to be tied up in a drop deck...

What about the Marauder IIC, an 85t assault mech, that when fitted with a cXL engine to be just as fast as the Mk. II with cFF and cEndo is pushing 46t of pod space?

Both of those mechs would have 31 free crits to work with, and the Marauder IIC is energy vomit giving death given form, it has Marauder hit boxes, with Warhawk level armour and structure....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Same could be said to your side of the argument, he said its all up for grabs that simple

No he didn't, he said as long as the BASE VARIANT is produced prior to 3053, any future variants would be potentially viable for addition into the game provided the equipment not in the game currently could be easily replaced. Thus why you are cherry picking because you ignore that BASE VARIANT requirement.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 March 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[pbiggz]

Metus regem, on 09 March 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

What do you think about the Warhammer IIC, an 80t assault mech, that when fitted with an cXL engine (320 rated, so same speed as the Mk II), cFF armour and cEndo steel, is pushing 44.5t of pod space? It's less weight to be tied up in a drop deck...

What about the Marauder IIC, an 85t assault mech, that when fitted with a cXL engine to be just as fast as the Mk. II with cFF and cEndo is pushing 46t of pod space?

Both of those mechs would have 31 free crits to work with, and the Marauder IIC is energy vomit giving death given form, it has Marauder hit boxes, with Warhawk level armour and structure....

I think we need to give the IS marauder and warhammer time to breath before we bring in their strictly superior clan brothers. I would love a warhammer IIC, its one of my favourite mechs, but not yet.

[LastKhan]

pbiggz, on 09 March 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

I disagree? MK II would have a high engine cap so it could go just as fast as the exe if you wanted it to. Even stock it keeps up with IS heavies and some of the slower clan heavies.

Im tired of clan assaults that are objectively worse than the timberwolf, which doesn't even have that much firepower as far as clan heavies are concerned. (see nova cat). Either clan assaults are REALLY slow, way over-engined.

Then i can concede my earlier statement if it can keep up with a EXE. Still would take heavies more then assaults in a drop deck.


Sadly the timber was build to be the badass of badasses unfortunately. Night gyr can make a good close second. The clans really seemed to be more focused on better heavies then assaults.

[Metus regem]

pbiggz, on 09 March 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

I think we need to give the IS marauder and warhammer time to breath before we bring in their strictly superior clan brothers. I would love a warhammer IIC, its one of my favourite mechs, but not yet.

This is weird... we are finding common ground.....

The WHM-IIC4 is one of my personal favorites as far as mechs go....

[pbiggz]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 March 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

No he didn't, he said as long as the BASE VARIANT is produced prior to 3053, any future variants would be potentially viable for addition into the game provided the equipment not in the game currently could be easily replaced. Thus why you are cherry picking because you ignore that BASE VARIANT requirement.

We discussed this already, russ is partial to pre-3053 but he's not precluding post 3053 mechs from being added, especially if they add something interesting to the game. Im not turning this thread into a flame war again though so lets assume mechs up to 3068 COULD be in provided their main variants use (mostly) current tech, but pre-3053 mechs are more LIKELY.

[Metus regem]

LastKhan, on 09 March 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Then i can concede my earlier statement if it can keep up with a EXE. Still would take heavies more then assaults in a drop deck.


Sadly the timber was build to be the badass of badasses unfortunately. Night gyr can make a good close second. The clans really seemed to be more focused on better heavies then assaults.

There is a lot of truth to the second half of what you are saying, in TT, even the vaunted Mk. IV Mad Cat is a pale imitation of the Timby... Delta Timby and Prime Mk IV are 3701 and 3700 BV respectively, for the same build... but you couldn't pay me to take a Mk IV, XXL engine on that thing? NO THANKS!

[pbiggz]

LastKhan, on 09 March 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Then i can concede my earlier statement if it can keep up with a EXE. Still would take heavies more then assaults in a drop deck.


Sadly the timber was build to be the badass of badasses unfortunately. Night gyr Nova Cat can make a good close second. The clans really seemed to be more focused on better heavies then assaults.

FTFY

I used to want the night gyr, but the nova cat has 38 tons of podspace as well and also its 70 tons and way cooler.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Kingfisher torso has endo ferro and some of its stock locked DHS in the RT Leaving it with a single slot free which is occupied by a ER Medium

Turk C carries 2 Meds and 2 Flamers in the LT



the TROs have the listings of whats in each location stock before listing the loadouts, what Ive been looking at.

You are reading it wrong, the right torso has 1 hardlocked DHS, 3 ES, 3 FF, and FOUR free slots. With only one Energy hardpoint there, that is not a limiting factor.

[pbiggz]

Metus regem, on 09 March 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

There is a lot of truth to the second half of what you are saying, in TT, even the vaunted Mk. IV Mad Cat is a pale imitation of the Timby... Delta Timby and Prime Mk IV are 3701 and 3700 BV respectively, for the same build... but you couldn't pay me to take a Mk IV, XXL engine on that thing? NO THANKS!

XXLs tell me something important about engines. If a mechwarrior game standardized engine nomenclature and stats that would be a vast improvement over the current system. Consider that an XXL weighing 25% of std weight would die to a torso loss, an XL/LFE would survive a torso loss and weigh 50% and the standard would weigh full and be more durable.

Make that the same for both factions and boom you solve a lot of problems though it would break a ton of stock loadouts.

[LastKhan]

pbiggz, on 09 March 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

FTFY

I used to want the night gyr, but the nova cat has 38 tons of podspace as well and also its 70 tons and way cooler.

Aye, im still thinking of the next clan mech/pack they would release (debateable) without having to really sit and consider about it.