129 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TercieI, on 21 April 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

Make it super jumpy and add a couple flamers...I keep going back and forth on which I like better, it's an interesting trade off.

It's map/match dependent, pretty much the only reason to take lots of jumps is for matches where someone decides to abuse walls on HPG or the plateaus on Bog, otherwise Flamers are the better choice.



I will just echo what everyone else has said, the advantage of the Oxide is effective DPS (better spread and slight quirks help) while being hard to hit. That said the 6 SRM6 Jenner I have gained more respect for after matches against Lords, where they used them well on a couple of the matches, but the Oxide is something I find to be more reliable though. The Cheetah suffers from heat issues to the point that it isn't reliable for damage, it just can't keep up like the Oxide and either Jenner IIC build (cSPLs or Splat).

Splat Griffins beat Splatcrows for roughly the same reason the Oxide beats the Jenner IIC, the spread is much tighter because of the IS having tighter spread and because of mount locations and that matters A LOT in how much effective damage you are dealing.

Brawling Timbys also run ASRM6s and cSPLs because the heat and long duration of the cERMLs do not play well with brawling. Black Knights also do something a bit differently, while lasers are effective short range push weapons, SRMs are the true brawling weapons and their DPS is unmatched at close enough ranges. After saying that, you want Black Knights because they tend to be more flexible compared to the brawling Timbys, Tourmaline is often an example where their ability to shoot at range helps more than the firepower of the Timby.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 21 April 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

When you say IS have best of the best and call others misinformed it would help your cause to point out those best of the best

Oxide is great, but it's on par with Jenner IIC, while Cheetah is still better than both


Black Knight is good as laser vomit, but it's slower, has no JJ and doesn't have the options to pack SRMs like timber, making it worse in all except for one thing - laser vomit exchange

Oxide is better than the Jenner IIC. This is widely accepted. It is also a better brawler than a Cheetah right now.

Black Knight is actually more useful at the mid range laser vomit role and tankier even with an IS XL, in my opinion. Yeah SRM Timbers are good but I wouldn't compare them to a laser vomit Black Knight, those are different roles.

Jun Watarase, on 21 April 2016 - 01:52 AM, said:

Meta BJs > stormcrows.

Not really at brawling. There are other brawling IS mechs that are quite good, including the HBK-4SP and the GRF-3M. The 10 cSPL Novas/Stormcrows pack a lot of precise DPS, very good in a brawl.

[Lily from animove]

Stefka Kerensky, on 21 April 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

Sorry but you are thinking in the wrong way.
It's not about speed comparison, but timing.
149.3kph seems to be only 7% better...but it's a good dman better speed to cover when needed, to help a teamate when needed, to harass a dmg ememy when needed. And also enemies have much more difficult to aim at a 149.3 target than a 139 one.

this, becasue 7% can mean those projectiles/missiles hit you or a hill. But thats something many people seem to not understand that 7% can alter something to 0% or 100%.
But try to explain that as much as you want, some peope will never understand this.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 April 2016 - 08:16 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 April 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

The 10 cSPL Novas/Stormcrows pack a lot of precise DPS, very good in a brawl.

Though all it takes is one Flamer mech to pretty much ruin these mech's days, which is why some teams try to avoid them.

I don't mind one in an 8v8 or 2 in a 12v12, but any more and you run the risk of not having enough raw DPS especially in the face of flamers.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 21 April 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 21 April 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

Though all it takes is one Flamer mech to pretty much ruin these mech's days, which is why some teams try to avoid them.

That's true I hadn't thought of that..

That would also apply to a lot of mechs though. SRMs aren't exactly cool, and mechs like the GRF-3M with a STD engine don't have that many DHS..

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 April 2016 - 07:42 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 April 2016 - 07:38 AM, said:

That would also apply to a lot of mechs though. SRMs aren't exactly cool, and mechs like the GRF-3M with a STD engine don't have that many DHS..

They aren't cool, but for the damage and the spread, they are a bit more effective than cSPLs, especially the 10-12 variants which don't have near enough DHS for the damage limiting their DPS to begin with. The SPL boats are spectacular in 1v1 or 2v2 brawls, but any more players than that and their lack of sustained DPS starts to show, especially with flamers.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 21 April 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[Death Proof]

When going against Clans in Scouting Mode with an IS mech, I bring long range weapons and try to single out the Scrows (and other bombers) first to soften them up from a distance for as long as I can. Because once they get into melee range it's usually game over if you're in an IS mech unless they are banged up pretty good.

[WarHippy]

Mcgral18, on 21 April 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

You sound very inexperienced, or do not watch any competition matches...because the BK and Oxide are the higher picks (Heavy getting more variety...but always Oxides with some Cheetahs, Oxide taking priority in the majority of cases)

That is because he is inexperienced. His account was created in January. Normally I wouldn't use time joined as an argument, but in this case he really doesn't know what he is talking about having only been around for a little over 3 months.

[Dirty Starfish]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 12:40 AM, said:

Arctic Cheetah will kill any IS Light mech

The cheetah is actually pretty **** in light battles. I kill them in a locust all the time. The rof quirks mean you can just out-dps them while circle strafing each other.

[Johnny Z]

Dirty Starfish, on 21 April 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

The cheetah is actually pretty **** in light battles. I kill them in a locust all the time. The rof quirks mean you can just out-dps them while circle strafing each other.

Ya ya the Arctic Cheddar can be beat. Its still the best light mech in the game. Easily. Its got speed, durability and firepower. All three of those at the top end. Anyone says the Oxide is durable is kidding themselves and no one else. Same goes for any other Inner Spere light packing an XL. They all go down easy.

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 April 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[Deathlike]

I spent double XP weekend trying to grind the Splat Jenner IIC, and damn the thing is soft as tissue paper. If I had access/bought an Oxide, I would be having a much better time since it is literally that much more durable due to the structure quirks. The missile cooldown quirks just happen to be a bonus.

If you actually have to counter why others doing comp players have to say with mechs and you just outright ignore or don't actually pay attention to those comments, then clearly you must have "special" keen eye that noone is able to see.

The comp community does analyze the "cost-benefit ratio" to death, and losing JJs on the Oxide is nothing compared to the benefits of overall durability (kinda similar to the Grasshopper vs Black Knight argument for the purposes of brawling).

Edited by Deathlike, 21 April 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[TercieI]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 21 April 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

It's map/match dependent, pretty much the only reason to take lots of jumps is for matches where someone decides to abuse walls on HPG or the plateaus on Bog, otherwise Flamers are the better choice.

I agree that it's situational (though I find lots of ways to use many JJ in PUGs), but why is that a choice? I have a 3M build with an XL300, ASRM16 (5 tons), two flamers and five JJ. Smurfy says 64% cooling and I've never really run into heat problems with it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Johnny Z, on 21 April 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Anyone says the Oxide is durable is kidding themselves and no one else.

No, its the other way around, anyone who thinks the top lights aren't the Jenny IIC and Oxide are kidding themselves, the Cheetah is a solid scout, but when you need damage and sustainability, the Oxide and Jenny IIC are easily better despite their hit box disadvantage.

[TercieI]

Deathlike, on 21 April 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

I spent double XP weekend trying to grind the Splat Jenner IIC, and damn the thing is soft as tissue paper. If I had access/bought an Oxide, I would be having a much better time since it is literally that much more durable due to the structure quirks. The missile cooldown quirks just happen to be a bonus.

If you actually have to counter why others doing comp players have to say with mechs and you just outright ignore or don't actually pay attention to those comments, then clearly you must have "special" keen eye that noone is able to see.

The comp community does analyze the "cost-benefit ratio" to death, and losing JJs on the Oxide is nothing compared to the benefits of overall durability (kinda similar to the Grasshopper vs Black Knight argument for the purposes of brawling).

QFT. The common hypothesis was that the JR7-IIC would obsolete the Oxide, but that hypothesis has been thoroughly tested and rejected.

Johnny Z, on 21 April 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Ya ya the Arctic Cheddar can be beat. Its still the best light mech in the game. Easily. Its got speed, durability and firepower. All three of those at the top end. Anyone says the Oxide is durable is kidding themselves and no one else. Same goes for any other Inner Spere light packing an XL. They all go down easy.

LOL. Not at all.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TercieI, on 21 April 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

I agree that it's situational (though I find lots of ways to use many JJ in PUGs), but why is that a choice?

Because the 300 XL is a bit slow for the brawling Griffin, whether the speed/agility difference between something like a 325 or 350 XL is worth it, *shrug*, but I prefer the speed over one or the other.

For PUGs I do agree on the JJs, they are nice to have, but that is a different story.

[Lily from animove]

WarHippy, on 21 April 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

That is because he is inexperienced. His account was created in January. Normally I wouldn't use time joined as an argument, but in this case he really doesn't know what he is talking about having only been around for a little over 3 months.

But that totally ok to ask for help instead of rantflaming how stuff is op and such things as others do. The will to improving yourself is the first step on the road of success.

[TercieI]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 21 April 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

Because the 300 XL is a bit slow for the brawling Griffin, whether the speed/agility difference between something like a 325 or 350 XL is worth it, *shrug*, but I prefer the speed over one or the other.

For PUGs I do agree on the JJs, they are nice to have, but that is a different story.

Huh. I haven't really run it with the bigger engine, but I haven't been trying to refine it for comp, since I'd be in an Oxide anyway. I'll have to give it a spin.

[Mcgral18]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 21 April 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

Though all it takes is one Flamer mech to pretty much ruin these mech's days, which is why some teams try to avoid them.

I don't mind one in an 8v8 or 2 in a 12v12, but any more and you run the risk of not having enough raw DPS especially in the face of flamers.

3 cSPLs, that's what Flamers do to the mech.
Not great. Quite bad, but not defenceless. If there's no heat multiplier yet, you can of course use your own Flamers.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 21 April 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

3 cSPLs, that's what Flamers do to the mech.
Not great. Quite bad, but not defenceless. If there's no heat multiplier yet, you can of course use your own Flamers.

That's just one flamer though is it not? Most builds should be running 2 at the very least.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 21 April 2016 - 08:31 AM.

[Hal Greaves]

Funny to see spreadsheet warriors do their thing.

They almost always miss the mark when it comes to the reality of actually playing robutts in actual gameplay.