482 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

Livewyr, on 02 May 2016 - 06:37 AM, said:

Exactly what variety do we have now?

Laser Spam Heavies
or SRM Spam Heavies.

(The leagues have to ban duplicate mechs because everyone would bring the same damned 2-3 mechs.)

I watched Emp vs. HoL MRBC last night.

Some examples of what they brought:

Dakka Maulers & Jagers
Laser mechs
SRM fast rush brawlers (including some show stealing by Jenner IIC & Oxide)
SRM + AC 20 Atlas
SPL Lights
We even saw a 4x MG + LPL Spder


The only weapon system not currently in play competitively are LRMs and that's due to their failed design and implementation.

Edited by Ultimax, 02 May 2016 - 08:24 AM.

[FupDup]

Ultimax, on 02 May 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

The only weapon system not currently in play competitively are LRMs and that's due to their failed design and implementation.

LB-X?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 02 May 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

LB-X?

SHD-2D2 can get away with LBX actually, I kinda prefer it over the solid slug AC10 sometimes because of it being lighter and the fact you are a splat build anyway.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 02 May 2016 - 08:28 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

FupDup, on 02 May 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

LB-X?

I'll have to look again but I could have sworn I saw an Atlas with 2 LB10.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Rouken Vordermark, on 02 May 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

I'll have to look again but I could have sworn I saw an Atlas with 2 LB10.

Maybe not last night, but the D-DC can sometimes be seen with it.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 May 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Maybe not last night, but the D-DC can sometimes be seen with it.

Yeah, it was the D-DC. https://youtu.be/lDW...cde0?t=1h13m12s

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 02 May 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

LB-X?

As the other guys brought up, some people are using them.

Are they super competitive? No, but that's due to their design failure which we have been over hundreds of times.

It has little to do with lasers and everything to do with their design being outright inferior to standard ACs.


The funny part? 4x LB 10 Kodiak will likely go over the powder draw limit with it's whopping 40 damage!!


Too much damage for the scrubs to handle, they shouldn't be asked to think about positioning, proper movement, torso twising, learning when to trade and when to hold back.


They don't want to learn those things, please dumb down the game further for them so every match can devolve into a 300m furball where it takes minutes to kill each other with pea shooters.


Pew pew pew!

Edited by Ultimax, 02 May 2016 - 08:45 AM.

[FupDup]

While we're at it...can anybody tell me if the Inner Sphere standard Small Laser gets competitive use? I don't mean the Small PULSE Laser, I mean the actual little 0.5 ton gun.

The only notable person I've heard of using it is a certain LRM Hunchback enthusiast...

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 02 May 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

While we're at it...can anybody tell me if the Inner Sphere standard Small Laser gets competitive use? I don't mean the Small PULSE Laser, I mean the actual little 0.5 ton gun.

The only notable person I've heard of using it is a certain LRM Hunchback enthusiast...

I don't know, probably not, but we're doing pretty good right now.

Practically speaking not every mech and weapon will always be a viable choice for competitive play - the matches and plans are too specific for every single weapon to possibly have a role.

We don't see many small lasers, but we also don't see many medium pulse lasers (they've gone back to being too heavy for their range - better off with MLAS and LPLs instead of MPLs) as some examples.


There are a lot of see saw items that are too close to each other for then to both be equally valuable and generally improving or reducing one of them, will have power/usage tip in favor of one or the other.

Edited by Ultimax, 02 May 2016 - 08:51 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 02 May 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

While we're at it...can anybody tell me if the Inner Sphere standard Small Laser gets competitive use? I don't mean the Small PULSE Laser, I mean the actual little 0.5 ton gun.

The only notable person I've heard of using it is a certain LRM Hunchback enthusiast...

IT'S A LASER SO IT IS OP PLEASE NERF IT TAKES NO SKILL.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 02 May 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

While we're at it...can anybody tell me if the Inner Sphere standard Small Laser gets competitive use? I don't mean the Small PULSE Laser, I mean the actual little 0.5 ton gun.

Not really, the SPL for the IS is really only used on the FS9-A and maybe the WLF-1A that I keep seeing on the euro side (not sure on the build) of MRBC. Outside that first drop though, neither sees much use (maybe the 4SP in the second/third drop?).

FupDup, on 02 May 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

The only notable person I've heard of using it is a certain LRM Hunchback enthusiast...

Jman stopped using the HBK-4J after it got double nerfed in the rebalance afaik.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 02 May 2016 - 08:51 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Ultimax, on 02 May 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

The only weapon system not currently in play competitively are LRMs and that's due to their failed design and implementation.

Do comp players do practice matches where they try LRM's and different weapon types?

[LordKnightFandragon]

I Zeratul I, on 02 May 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Do comp players do practice matches where they try LRM's and different weapon types?

Lolno? Competitive play is meta or bust. The only different weapon they use will be designated "FOTM"

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 May 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Lolno? Competitive play is meta or bust. The only different weapon they use will be designated "FOTM"

You don't seem to understand anything about comp play then. Who do you think "discovers" the meta/fotm? Some meta mechs are not found through just looking at stats, some of them have been found simply through experimentation in opens/practices.

[DrxAbstract]

Saltychipmunk, on 02 May 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

and i would say too complex an answer to what is really a very simple problem, which already has a very simple solution floating around.

again the only issue right now is high alpha game play which is facilitated by the fact that you can fire high alphas multiple times. they just need to make firing high alphas multiple times impossible , no need for ghost heat , no need for nerfing weapons or 9 other little changes.

I asked what would happen if those changes were made, not for your impressions concerning their viability.

You see, the problem isnt 'high alpha' builds, which are alluded to being specifically 'laser vomit' oriented. An AC40 KGC, UAC5/10 Dire will facestomp a Laser Vomit Dire... The former two being comparatively low alpha Ballistic builds. The Atlas S is also not 'laser vomit', but it is a high alpha design while not having remotely close to the heat production of an energy build with similar damage output... Different Mechs can combine different weapons to produce relatively identical results and only the energy based ones will be affected by heat capping, disproportionately at that. So what 'simple fix' that's 'already floating around' that will address this?

The problem has been created by a series of small steps over a long period of time and will likely require several steps/changes to correct... One of which is that high alpha builds currently have too high an alpha, period. You cant lower that without addressing the disproportionate shift in power toward low-alpha DPS builds capable of putting out just as much damage in the long run as high-alpha builds currently do? Again, what solution out there addresses that ontop of everything else?

Multiple changes to multiple features is required, not just a single end-all-be-all change... So it's pretty simple: What would happen if the changes I outlined were implemented? Not your opinion of their viability, but what do you think would actually happen?

[Gas Guzzler]

I Zeratul I, on 02 May 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Do comp players do practice matches where they try LRM's and different weapon types?

NS hasn't considered LRMS yet but we have experimented with pretty much everything else.

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 May 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Lolno? Competitive play is meta or bust. The only different weapon they use will be designated "FOTM"

Wow. Ignorance is real.

[Deathlike]

I Zeratul I, on 02 May 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Do comp players do practice matches where they try LRM's and different weapon types?

You know how easy it is to mitigate and neutralize the LRM boat?

Despite being able to be rained upon by LRMs, they are the least efficient in dealing damage (cover being #1, followed by mitigation and LRM spread) and are generally considered -1 player on the opfor (they can't enough direct damage in any immediacy, so it's not a threat once pushed).

You can talk about UAVs, TAGs, and NARCs all you want, but at the end of the day, they are not entirely helpful unless the opfor eats LRMs all day... and those are usually not good teams.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 May 2016 - 11:27 AM.

[H I A S]

Ultimax, on 02 May 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

The only weapon system not currently in play competitively are LRMs and that's due to their failed design and implementation.

Our Team tryed it in the heaviest drop on caustic against HoL. Nearly worked

[Gas Guzzler]

arivio, on 02 May 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

Our Team tryed it in the heaviest drop on caustic against HoL. Nearly worked

Nice.

It is just so obvious that so many people on this forum have no idea what competitive play looks like, but think they know how the game is balanced because they see people in Black Knights in the solo queue.

[VorpalAnvil]

Ultimax, on 02 May 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

I watched Emp vs. HoL MRBC last night.

Some examples of what they brought:

Dakka Maulers & Jagers
Laser mechs
SRM fast rush brawlers (including some show stealing by Jenner IIC & Oxide)
SRM + AC 20 Atlas
SPL Lights
We even saw a 4x MG + LPL Spder


The only weapon system not currently in play competitively are LRMs and that's due to their failed design and implementation.

You missed the splatcat HoL brought to Bog. They had it in their MRBC match last week as well.