334 replies to this topic

[Count Zero 74]

Armando, on 21 May 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:

Worry not my friend, the other foot will fall. Much <3 and o7 for IS Loyalist who are weathering the storm since the Kodiak release....soon you will BE the storm....soon my friends. /wink

Not worried at all but I've heard its my duty as Steiner Loyalist to whine on the Forum and boycott the Falcons.

And noone can say I won't step up when duty calls.

PS: Streak..... well you know the rest

[Xiomburg]

Count Zero 74, on 21 May 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Not worried at all but I've heard its my duty as Steiner Loyalist to whine on the Forum and boycott the Falcons.

And noone can say I won't step up when duty calls.

PS: Streak..... well you know the rest

LOL

[Zolaz]

PGI has gone after the esport crowd and gave us some poorly made socks for FW or CW after 3 years. Our current iteration of FW is what happens when you live on an island and arent the target audience.

[AssaultPig]

tbh it sounds like the larger units at the very least ought to open up some lines of communication and try to prevent this kind of thing from happening. It sucks, but (even inadvertantly) you did it to yourselves.

I wish PGI would limit faction choices to a particular 'front' each season, just to get more population out there. Then let everybody pick one of (say) two IS or clan factions for that season.

[Contrex]

The other oppourtunity would be somekind of choice system to build somekind of party between the factions.

You can vote for an enemy, fine.
Lets vote for a partner as well. You can attack with the partner AND defend with the partner, no mather what. The planet you are attacking goes to the faction which has the right on it (geo reason). So every faction would be able to attack 2 planets.

The factions should vote for a partner the coming week. The votes of both factions together are creating the partnership and so on.... You would halfe the factions AND you would create some new partners to play with. Its even not against lore. Steiner Davion would work great.

The only thing which should be not allowed is IS + Clan partnership.
The vote should only be possible by loyalists.

[Commander A9]

StUffz, on 19 May 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

Wrong. Game franchise is called Mechwarrior Online and the site is just named mwomercs.com. The game is about factions and non aligned players. Mercs are just part of the game giving the option for players to hire either with the greater IS houses or the Clans. Lore based. Mercs should not be able to hire with the clans since it is not honorable.

Actually, all the factions' screens in Community Warfare address the player as a mercenary in some format (this was before the lifestyle choice was added, yet the screens still persist).

And lore was killed on day one, dude. If you had pure lore, then Clan tech would dominate every facet of battle.

[StUffz]

Commander A9, on 23 May 2016 - 07:49 PM, said:

Actually, all the factions' screens in Community Warfare address the player as a mercenary in some format (this was before the lifestyle choice was added, yet the screens still persist).

And lore was killed on day one, dude. If you had pure lore, then Clan tech would dominate every facet of battle.

Yeah. But IS "dominated" Clans by their own tradition and by fights 12 vs. 10. And no. CW is not about mercs. It's about factions. Mercs are just... supporters?

Edited by StUffz, 23 May 2016 - 10:53 PM.

[MischiefSC]

StUffz, on 23 May 2016 - 10:51 PM, said:

Yeah. But IS "dominated" Clans by their own tradition and by fights 12 vs. 10. And no. CW is not about mercs. It's about factions. Mercs are just... supporters?

No, IS didn't 'dominate' Clans. Plot Armor forced the Clans to lose, inexplicably, due to incredibly poor tactical decisions. Comguard and their slight tech edge over 3025 were in no way, shape or form a big enough advantage to win on Tukayyid. Not even close. If you tried to play Tuk out with actual players on each side, one side 25-33% better than the other (skill difference between Clan/IS according to stats) and with dramatically superior tech it would have been a series of 12-0 wipe matches. They made a completely broken system and then just decided via fiat that the IS won cuz reasons. Clan Wolf won their objectives because.... they took LRMs? LOLWUT? Even in TT they were mediocre weapons.

Nobody ever played out Tuk in tabletop and had the IS win. That's why it was broken and in the end why they made Clan/IS balanced mech for mech in the end. It never worked without house rules to keep people from exploiting how broke it was.

[StUffz]

It still dos not change the fact that Mercs had a minor role in BT universe.

[Count Zero 74]

Where is everybofy ?

[Willard Phule]

StUffz, on 24 May 2016 - 01:26 AM, said:

It still dos not change the fact that Mercs had a minor role in BT universe.

Right up until Davion gave Wolf's Dragoons the planet Outreach. Then, Mercs played a MAJOR role in the invasion. Especially after Wolf came out and told everyone their origins and set up anti-clan training.

[StUffz]

Willard Phule, on 25 May 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

Right up until Davion gave Wolf's Dragoons the planet Outreach. Then, Mercs played a MAJOR role in the invasion. Especially after Wolf came out and told everyone their origins and set up anti-clan training.

Even then they had a minor role. The foughts were still between FeCom vs. JF(Steiner Side)/ Kurita vs. Smoke Jag, Steel Viper, Nova Cats/ Rasalhague vs. ... where is Rasalhague actually?

Wolf Dragoon or Mercs still were not the power in the IS. They were only supporters.

Tactics to succesfull fight Clans were given by Victor Steiner-Steiner Davion and Hohiro Kurita. ComStar Precentor Martial only summed up and worked out the ultimate strategy to fight Clans. So based on this, Factions are the driven power not some minor mercs.

[Lolo van Trollinger]

there is a number of problems with current FW:

1. having to create a unit for a solo player to FW as merc. then ego kicks in and some try recruitment, leading to below critical mass units. critical mass -> power to field a 12man.
2. any non-12man ends up with pugs we all know how OP teamplay is and how well pugs fare with executing a perfectly good plan.
3. that stuff alone ends in morale- and incentive killing roflstomps.
4. add clan tech.
5. scout matches lead to long shlong tom. which leads to butthurt. superfast roflstomp.

now dear MS players - go solo, get into such a Queue in unleveled or half leveled mechs and after a month try to find enough spirit to keep dropping in there over and over, just to be roflstomped. you came here for fun, right ? your own roflstomps kill the same opposition you love to crush. why ? we all come here to play for a chance to win. no chance, no play. basic Motivation lore. there is no rule that forces a fight on an insanely overwhelming enemy when you can fight some match you can actually win. if you get forced to fight on a no-win zone, people stop playing FW and go off to QP.

on my main account i do no longer get FW matches with our small unit: People are tired of pug-ridden FW looses. People are tired of Long Tom. two of Eleven stopped playing until fix. 2 more only do QP at the moment.

I wish there was an option for clans to bid away machines/tons, enforce honour rules, fight as ten man, etc. this would allow for dynamic balancing (bid away too much and risk a loss. bid stuff away and increase rewards - but evens out playfield). honour rules would e.g. level playfield between VOIP 12man and pug randoms.

Edited by Lolo van Trollinger, 25 May 2016 - 09:45 AM.

[Willard Phule]

StUffz, on 25 May 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

Even then they had a minor role. The foughts were still between FeCom vs. JF(Steiner Side)/ Kurita vs. Smoke Jag, Steel Viper, Nova Cats/ Rasalhague vs. ... where is Rasalhague actually?

Wolf Dragoon or Mercs still were not the power in the IS. They were only supporters.

Tactics to succesfull fight Clans were given by Victor Steiner-Steiner Davion and Hohiro Kurita. ComStar Precentor Martial only summed up and worked out the ultimate strategy to fight Clans. So based on this, Factions are the driven power not some minor mercs.

After the fall of the Star League, at the beginning of the succession wars, the SLDF units that remained in the Inner Sphere either signed on with the houses or went Merc. Eridani Light Horse is the first unit that comes to mind.

They played a MAJOR role in every succession war.

If you get the technical manual for Operation Bulldog and take a look at the unit rosters sent into clan space, you'll see a significant portion of them were Mercs.

Also, Clan Wolf in Exile can also be lumped in with the Mercs as they worked hand in hand with Wolf's Dragoons along the the same corridor the Kell Hounds were working.

[StUffz]

Willard Phule, on 25 May 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

After the fall of the Star League, at the beginning of the succession wars, the SLDF units that remained in the Inner Sphere either signed on with the houses or went Merc. Eridani Light Horse is the first unit that comes to mind.

They played a MAJOR role in every succession war.

If you get the technical manual for Operation Bulldog and take a look at the unit rosters sent into clan space, you'll see a significant portion of them were Mercs.

Also, Clan Wolf in Exile can also be lumped in with the Mercs as they worked hand in hand with Wolf's Dragoons along the the same corridor the Kell Hounds were working.

There weren't that much mercs involved in Operation Bulldog. Main units are house units. And on Task force Serpent there were only ELH and Northwind Highlanders but only because of their past as former SLDF units.

And no, Clan Wolf in Exile are a clan unit which has been splitted and abandoned however they remain a Warden Clan. Further Commands are separated. Command over the Wolves were with Dan Allard, Christian and Caitlin Kell along with Morgan Kell as advisor.

[slide]

Willard Phule, on 25 May 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

After the fall of the Star League, at the beginning of the succession wars, the SLDF units that remained in the Inner Sphere either signed on with the houses or went Merc. Eridani Light Horse is the first unit that comes to mind.

They played a MAJOR role in every succession war.

If you get the technical manual for Operation Bulldog and take a look at the unit rosters sent into clan space, you'll see a significant portion of them were Mercs.

Also, Clan Wolf in Exile can also be lumped in with the Mercs as they worked hand in hand with Wolf's Dragoons along the the same corridor the Kell Hounds were working.

Yes they played a role. But they did not dictate strategy or decide on where they went. They were always working for somebody.

Wolfs Dragoons were an anomaly in that they were basically clan spies, that switched sides. Even so they still didn't get to decide what they wanted to do. Even though they and the Kell Hounds had a level of autonomy they still did so at the behest of Hanse (and later Victor) Davion. WD and KH did not go to Luthien to defend it, they were SENT by Hanse Davion because he saw it as the best option to stop the Smoke Jaguars.

As big and well equipped as the Dragoons were, they could not prosecute a war, such as the the 3rd or 4th succession wars and certainly not against the clans alone.

Mercs in BT, much like any soldier or mechwarrior, executed policy, the didn't get to make it. As they say politicians propose, the military dispose.

Edited by slide, 25 May 2016 - 05:14 PM.

[Daidachi]

slide, on 25 May 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

Yes they played a role. But they did not dictate strategy or decide on where they went. They were always working for somebody.

Wolfs Dragoons were an anomaly in that they were basically clan spies, that switched sides. Even so they still didn't get to decide what they wanted to do. Even though they and the Kell Hounds had a level of autonomy they still did so at the behest of Hanse (and later Victor) Davion. WD and KH did not go to Luthien to defend it, they were SENT by Hanse Davion because he saw it as the best option to stop the Smoke Jaguars.

As big and well equipped as the Dragoons were, they could not prosecute a war, such as the the 3rd or 4th succession wars and certainly not against the clans alone.

Mercs in BT, much like any soldier or mechwarrior, executed policy, the didn't get to make it. As the say politicians propose, the military dispose.

Small exception - case feral, after the WoB attack on Outreach. They (and allied MRBC units) prosecuted that attack on Terra themselves. Disastrously, true - but they still did it themselves.

There is also the example of the long march of the Big MAC, where they got to dictate what happened as they saw fit.

[slide]

Daidachi, on 25 May 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Small exception - case feral, after the WoB attack on Outreach. They (and allied MRBC units) prosecuted that attack on Terra themselves. Disastrously, true - but they still did it themselves.

There is also the example of the long march of the Big MAC, where they got to dictate what happened as they saw fit.

To be honest I am not that familiar with the period after the FedCom Civil war and the start of the Dark Age era. I do know the Wobbies nuked Outreach and the dragoons and Allies prosecuted a blood feud against the Wobbies. Even so they still wouldn't have been setting policy for how the big houses operated. And if they had tried they would have had to fight the an entire IS faction, something they could not do in any practical long term way. The failure against the Wobbies being proof of that.

Not sure of the story of the Big MAC (Dark Age?). However is Autonomy from an employer the same as setting policy for a faction. I doubt it.

[Daidachi]

slide, on 25 May 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

Not sure of the story of the Big MAC (Dark Age?). However is Autonomy from an employer the same as setting policy for a faction. I doubt it.

Big MAC = McCarron's Armoured Cavalry. It was a campaign designed by McCarron himself, where his unit went a'roving through Davion space enough to make Davion pull back from just attacking Liao non stop in the 3rd succession war.

[slide]

Daidachi, on 25 May 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

Big MAC = McCarron's Armoured Cavalry. It was a campaign designed by McCarron himself, where his unit went a'roving through Davion space enough to make Davion pull back from just attacking Liao non stop in the 3rd succession war.

Thanks needed a memory jog.

Sure McCarron acted autonomously to defeat a known threat but that is very different from him running around carving out his own little fiefdom. Max Liao would have had him executed most gruesomely had McCarron tried that.

Williard Phule was trying to use lore to justify mercs doing their own thing, which is true to a point, but no merc in lore has had the influence on a faction that a few of the bigger name units have on MWO.

The fact is MS have an effect on factions whether they win or even drop. Case in point, even though ARMD is a Merc unit we typically stay with Davion as we have lots of friends here. Last week our contract bonus was 0%. This week now that MS and JGx have come back to Davion our bonus is -20%. Before they have dropped a match they have already had an impact on my whole unit, to the tune of 50K per match (more with PT/heroes). How does that affect the desire of people in Davion to even queue up. Let alone affect the ability to get a match (seeing as 12 mans jump the queue). Does all of Marik and Liao suddenly take a week off like Steiner did last week just because MS is in town. Where ever a unit the size of MS goes it has an effect, whether they play or not. Is that the units fault, not directly but all actions have consequences.

This issue is not the same with large loyalist units as the population will stabilize around (and opposite) them which means you won't have the wild fluctuations in population that we get now.

The solution is not necessarily limiting a units size, as size does not equal activity, but perhaps limiting the number of teams a unit can drop simultaneously. House units can drop 3 teams max whilst mercs can only drop 1 (example only). But what ever they do PGI have got to stop counting people on unit rosters as active in CW, because the numbers are so wildly scewed that I doubt you can even come up with a number that is even close to being right.