579 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

W E N D I G O, on 04 November 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

Well mister Quicksilver, then quote me where I wrote that the Kodiak 3 should not be nerfed. Or google imaginary illness. Or "It's all in your head."


@Miss ChiefSC

I had the questionable luck/chance to drop way too often alongside and against you in CW and I hereby reveal to you: there are others I don't agree with, also in this thread, but I respect them because they are skilled players who may have another opinion and/or attitude but boiled down ultimately know why they are talking about stuff but... you? You are noit among them.

And I doubt you ever will be.

Know what? I know for a reason you will - again - report this post because you feel offended being just the little Betty you are but you should not take it that personally. It's usually really nice to get some info from "scrub tier" level, as you yourself did put it, because you know ever since the introduction of tiers I never had even the chance to experience it myself. being Tier 1, full bar from day one. Oh, and I only mention this because you can't have it, scrub,not because I would think any of it. But please remind me why tiers don't matter, will you? Be a nice little yesman and do what I say, yes, man.

There we go! What a cool rebel you are! I'm flattered you remember playing with me. I don't remeber you. You admittedly must hear that a lot.

Why would I report you? What have you said that's worth reporting?

All you've done is lose a trash talk argument with Deathlike and get shown wrong by Quicksilver and throw some insults arould like that's going to distract people from you busily being being wrong.

Then you go to "just trying to get it back on track". You're ehat took it on the entertaining side bar. Now, having been slapped around until you stopped making funny noises you're trying to play the rebel.

Keep it up! Everyone is very impressed!

[Deathlike]

Dee Eight, on 04 November 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

So essentially what you and others are arguing for (a nerfage of the kdk-3) is because in the modes which represent/attract a minority of the player pool, the mech is OP in the outcome of a match when everyone brings them? 10% of the players dictating what the other 90% should get to do with their mechs. How is that fair to the 90% ? I just took a contract for CSJ to check bucket #s at what should be prime playing time in N.A., and for four worlds where I could be playing a match, there's a total of 75 players between invasion and scouting modes.

lol what?

It's not about "rich vs poor". It's the trickle down effect a major imbalance has where even the 90% wants to get in on. One would argue even half of the 90% is using a lot of the top tier builds (even if failing miserably at it).

If LRMs were OP, wouldn't that be the #1 thing in comp play? You bet it would! However, that's not the case, so it's easier to see the higher you move up in Tiers that less people are using them. Facing the top tier teams in the group queue? Well, there might be one troll using LRMs, but the rest of the team is not touching LRMs from a mile away.

[Deathlike]

W E N D I G O, on 04 November 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

Well, if this actually the case, why do you have to tell everyone and yourself? Wouldn't that be obvious? That reminds me of your arguments for nerfing the KDK3. Basically because you are all for it. Keep going.

I actually did ask you a question, you pointed out I would be wrong about something, but didn't tell "everyone" what about? Care to elaborate/slap me around a tad more? Your self promotion isn't something I want to work with anymore.


PS: Because you wodnered, I usually don't memorise people but when I saw that pilot tag of yours ingame, along with that chat spam and showcase of "ability" I just thought: Isn't that...? No. Seriously? So there's that. You clearly left an impression. Rest assured.

Why are you still talking? What is your point again?

[Deathlike]

W E N D I G O, on 04 November 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Well, if you heard a voice, or several, you may want to consult a psychiatrist. Just saying.

Trolling will get you nowhere, especially when you're being outtrolled.

Paul, is that you?

[Dee Eight]

Deathlike, on 04 November 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

lol what?

It's not about "rich vs poor". It's the trickle down effect a major imbalance has where even the 90% wants to get in on. One would argue even half of the 90% is using a lot of the top tier builds (even if failing miserably at it).

Except trickle down economics don't happen in a small player base game like this the way you seem to fear it does. I ONLY do solo QP. I rarely do FW matches (even though I just took a contract to check player #s, I'm not actually going to bother playing a match at all for the next 7 days) and in fact skipped the last FW event altogether even though I've previously said I only play the mode during events. Now I don't even play it during them. That's how little I care about that mode.

Fine, great...the groups you play with in QP group drops, and in FW when you manage to put a match together, see a LOT of KDK-3 usage. Lovely. But in solo play... its a miracle if even three people end up in KDK-3s total out of 24, and its even more of a miracle if they're all dakka builds. Most often when encountered now they're goose builds because a meta comp player has gotten tired of waiting for a group match and come into the solo queue instead.

[Deathlike]

W E N D I G O, on 04 November 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

As lame as your gameplay.

Now can we get back on topic?

I'm sure personal attacks reinforce your point... which I'm not even sure what it is in the first place.

Dee Eight, on 04 November 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

Except trickle down economics don't happen in a small player base game like this the way you seem to fear it does. I ONLY do solo QP. I rarely do FW matches (even though I just took a contract to check player #s, I'm not actually going to bother playing a match at all for the next 7 days) and in fact skipped the last FW event altogether even though I've previously said I only play the mode during events. Now I don't even play it during them. That's how little I care about that mode.

It's trickle down balance. It has nothing to do with economics (although buying the Kodiak is a pricey proposition).

Solo QP isn't really definitive of anything... as much as you're using it. I could get a ton of garbage losses just as much as a garbage win streak. Solo play is closer to being indicative of nothing.

Quote

Fine, great...the groups you play with in QP group drops, and in FW when you manage to put a match together, see a LOT of KDK-3 usage. Lovely. But in solo play... its a miracle if even three people end up in KDK-3s total out of 24, and its even more of a miracle if they're all dakka builds. Most often when encountered now they're goose builds because a meta comp player has gotten tired of waiting for a group match and come into the solo queue instead.

The purpose of solo play is different. Some people are grinding mechs. Some people are playing casually. You can't actually determine much in the solo queue outside of the general lack of teamwork.


If the Solo Queue was indicative of true balance (because even the worst mechs can look like gods there), then we would be having a different discussion. That's not this discussion at all.


You don't balance the game when the lack of understanding (whether it is mechs, tactics, or just mech driving) is not what anyone considers "competent". You can't start to change things when you don't understand how things work. It's like saying we should balance this game for people who believe LRMs or Lights are OP. It's fine to not be good. Not everyone is of the same skill... and that's fine. It's not OK to tell people something's fine when everyone that's familar with the situation is telling you otherwise.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 November 2016 - 04:53 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Dee Eight, on 04 November 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

Except trickle down economics don't happen in a small player base game like this the way you seem to fear it does. I ONLY do solo QP. I rarely do FW matches (even though I just took a contract to check player #s, I'm not actually going to bother playing a match at all for the next 7 days) and in fact skipped the last FW event altogether even though I've previously said I only play the mode during events. Now I don't even play it during them. That's how little I care about that mode.

Fine, great...the groups you play with in QP group drops, and in FW when you manage to put a match together, see a LOT of KDK-3 usage. Lovely. But in solo play... its a miracle if even three people end up in KDK-3s total out of 24, and its even more of a miracle if they're all dakka builds. Most often when encountered now they're goose builds because a meta comp player has gotten tired of waiting for a group match and come into the solo queue instead.

Balance affects everything. Even solo QP. It skews someones PSR so that in other mechs they are not as worthwhile, gimping their team, etc.

When you have specific mechs or gear that is imbalanced it creates a disruption in the already mediocre system that mskes it all even less accurate.

Beyond which group queue, MRBC and competitive play directly or indirectly impacts a lot of players. When a mech like the KDK 3 comes along it screws the experience for all those peoplw. Think of it like LT - it's impact is significant and the longer its left the more it irritates.

[Mcgral18]

W E N D I G O, on 04 November 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

No, that's why I don't resort to them.

I...what?

Have you been reading what you're typing? On this page alone I see no fewer than 3
Why are Potatos always like this?

[MischiefSC]

Mcgral18, on 04 November 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

I...what?

Have you been reading what you're typing? On this page alone I see no fewer than 3
Why are Potatos always like this?

Because if they were smart and perceptive they wouldn't be so spudly?

Edited by MischiefSC, 04 November 2016 - 05:16 PM.

[Deathlike]

W E N D I G O, on 04 November 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

No, that's why I don't resort to them. But I react to them to reinforce my point.

So if solo QP isn't represent of anything, why is this solo QP the majority of the game? And why do you think the majority of the game isn't represent of anything but your opinion is? We all have seen what became of FP after it was catered to unit players, even with real money (in ingame currency ofc) rewards - abandoned because the comp-scene couldn't club seals anymore. Or because they had to play... well, competitive? But I'm sure it would be more interesting if the ability to buy certain equipment would be tied to planetary ownership restrictions.

Man, you guys really have apoint. *baffled*

Again, you're deflecting.

In FP, the consistent thing I see in matches, particularly from "solo PUGs" is that they aren't willing to work with the team they have. They use all their "solo PUG" tactics in a situation that demands teamwork, and the overwhelming complaint is that the opfor "must be PUGs as well", which is equivalent of the solo queue itself... as disorganized as the people that complain.

If even half the people that solo often worked with the people that are a bit more experienced (whether this results in a win or loss, it matters not), everyone would have a better experience overall. This is where the bulk of problems come from.

Working with people is more of a fundamental problem as seeing some of them "can't work with others" are really the culprits. You can blame whatever units you want, but at the end of the day... when solo players (and some units) don't work with the units (and others) trying to give them a hand, well, those solo players are going to be the "meat shields" that have been described before in solo play... and noone wants to be cannon fodder.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 November 2016 - 05:19 PM.

[Xmith]

Bawbagzz, on 04 November 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

I am a middle of the road player but anybody defending this mech is at it.
It's so much better than any other assault it's laughable.The sheer amount of dakka it can unleash is gamebreaking.Yes you Mr Kodiak 3.
Have I got 1? Yes.Do I like playing it?No.
I prefer heavies.I just wanted to see for myself what all the hoohah was about.My stats aren't very good in it but as I've seen in many games it needs pegged back,not the other Kodiaks just the 3 variant.
There's nothing gg get gud if you so happen to turn a corner and 1 or 2 of these are in front of you.
Press mb 1 and profit.Nah.

The same results with a dakka DWF laying in wait around corner.

Stick together Focus fire...

Edited by Xmith, 04 November 2016 - 05:22 PM.

[MischiefSC]

W E N D I G O, on 04 November 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

When I look at how you guys have each others back, liking posts and stuff, I'm really glad I'm not counted as part of your "scene". I don't want anyone to have my back nor would I share it with anyone. But carry on, it has tradition.

Except we don't know each other. I've seen them once or twice in QP. You're just so wrong, absurd and easy to mock that by us not being wrong and obnoxious we're all automatically unified in opposition to you.

At this point anyone who says you're wrong is going to get an up-vote and you're going to keep coming back to have that pointed out. I'm just curious how long you'll keep coming back.

[Kael Posavatz]

I'm not complaining about the OP Kodiac 3.

Now, if we want to discuss the lack of energy hardpoints on the Assassin-101 legs, I would not be adverse.

[MischiefSC]

W E N D I G O, on 04 November 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

You writing that down as you'd think I'd care. Does that work out for you usually? To get your ways? I asked earlier and you didn't reply, do you even remember what I am supposedly wrong about? Rethorical question. You were that guy I had to tell this, yes?

Pretty much everything you post. You don't really have a point, you make a failed attempt to troll someone, they point out you were wrong. Your try to make a "rhetorical question" as in you make a false assumption, answer it incorrectly and say nobody should answer it... since it was an incorrect assumption to begin with?

Mostly you just seem to be trying troll people for not being as incompetent about the game as you are. Also apparently jealous of, well, everyone? You're largely just flailing and trying (badly) to insult people about... nothing.

You tried to do the rhetorical question thing again. Asking a stupid question that's designed to imply something that's wrong and then saying it's rhetorical so when it gets pointed out as both stupid and wrong may work in whatever environment failed to socialize you or texh you effective communication skills but it's not really going to work here.... and this is a gaming forum. That's a whole other type of sad.

[Dee Eight]

Deathlike, on 04 November 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

Solo QP isn't really definitive of anything... as much as you're using it. I could get a ton of garbage losses just as much as a garbage win streak. Solo play is closer to being indicative of nothing.

Its definitive of where most players actually play. More than 45,000 people do QP Solo each month. They apparently don't count for anything in how the game is to be balanced because in your view their opinions are worthless ? And folks wonder why group/faction play are the least popular modes....

[Mcgral18]

Dee Eight, on 04 November 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

Its definitive of where most players actually play. More than 45,000 people do QP Solo each month. They apparently don't count for anything in how the game is to be balanced because in your view their opinions are worthless ? And folks wonder why group/faction play are the least popular modes....

Remember the rule:

Don't balance by Potato

[TercieI]

Mcgral18, on 04 November 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

Remember the rule:

Don't balance by Potato

Stated positively: Balance for the highest levels of play. Balance can trickle down, but if you balance for any level but the top, the top becomes about nothing more than finding loopholes. Unfortunately, nobody at PGI plays at anywhere near top level, so this is almost impossible.

[Venloe]

Venloe, on 04 November 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

Lets look at the facts. It is easy to do. Go back through the last 2 leaderboards in the assualt events.

In the August 11th assualt event the Kodiak is 1000 points ahead of the next best mech and 1500 ahead of the rest of the pack. That is a huge margin and no fluke.

In the August 19th assault leaderboard the kodiak is over 50% of the entries and only 1 of the top 10 is not a kodiak.

You can spout off all the opinions you want but the facts show it to be OP.

Dee Eight, on 04 November 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

That has been covered in previous threads extensively, threads which are now locked because the explanations for those leaderboards and ridiculous overscored abnormalities, violates the forum rules about discussing cheating/exploit techniques. Go search for the locked threads to educate yourself, or don't and live in the fantasy land where those results were of course 100% valid and legit.



Why though? Why should any assault be crippled to a Tier 2 mech ? Just because YOU... a tier 1 player cannot compete with it ? yeah that's a logical reason to do it.

Do you realise you replied with an entirely anecdotal response to the stats I provided to you. It’s really not helpful in assisting the conversation we are having here. I can see by your snideness that you won’t care but will respond so that other can get a better perspective.

What Dee is saying here is garbage. He is saying that cheating effects the leaderboards so we should just toss the only non-anecdotal stats we all have access to. Let’s say he is right for a minute and the scores are effected by cheaters. Well then all scores would be and we are back to a level playing field skill/cheat wise and the distinguisher is still the mech. Unless he has proof only Kodiak pilots cheat…. Or we can say drop the top 5 guys for each mech. You will see the results are the same, the Kodiak is still 1000 points ahead.

The problem is that for close/med/long range slugfests the AC has always been very powerful, the low heat combined with high dps can’t really be beaten for this style engagement. But these weapons are heavy, ammo dependant and up until recently extremely restricted via hardpoint assignment. The Kodiak does not have to sacrifice speed to get this so it doesn’t fall out of position like the Dire or KC yet has all the armor and tonnage advantages that come with the class.

Let me close with some anecdotal information of my own regarding the game overall and leaderboard events. While I am “aware” all FPS game have cheaters and this one is no exception, at no point have I ever felt cheated against. In the Epic assault event I was able to make it to 5^th place in my KC before I stopped playing and over the last day while offline was knocked back to 11^th. I was able to get there without the use consumables as I feel they are part of the pay-to-win portion of the game. Once I hit around 20^th place and the progression really slowed I noticed that most of the names around me moved up slowly as well. This happened in the small increments you would expect as your good game was replaced with another good one or hopefully great one.

PS. Sorry is the quote portion ends up being gimped, it’s my first time using the feature.

[MischiefSC]

Dee Eight, on 04 November 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

Its definitive of where most players actually play. More than 45,000 people do QP Solo each month. They apparently don't count for anything in how the game is to be balanced because in your view their opinions are worthless ? And folks wonder why group/faction play are the least popular modes....

It's not homogeneous though. It includes everyone, from comp players to underhive under performers. You can't 'balance' for solo QP because it is inherently broken where balance is concerned.

Balancing mechs for QP is like trying to balance forumula 1 race cars based on how 500 random people drive them to church and back on sundays, in random locations (urban, suburban, Australian outback, etc). It's irrelevant to how the vehicles actually perform relative to each other.

The reason balance is best established by comp tier players operating in a comp environment is that skill variance between comp players/teams is about as narrow as you can get - close as you can get to eliminating player skill variance. Same with comp tier matches; they're designed to try and balance out mech performance to weight more on player performance. It's why it's not random maps.

So it's easier to identify mech balance issues in a comp environment and more easily identified by comp tier players because they are literally looking at each mech/loadout to identify where they can pick up even a small advantage, because it's telling in that sort of environment.

In most QP matches the difference between a KDK - 3 Gauss boat and a stock LRM Archer doesn't seem that big. That doesn't mean they are reasonably close to each other in performance.

It's not about QP not mattering - of course it matters. The KDK 3 has skewed the PSR of countless players which, in turn, skews the PSR of everyone they play with. It's a problem that absolutely does impact everyone. That most people are not attentive enough to balance issues to notice doesn't mean the issue is minimal - it just means most people are pretty oblivious

[Mcgral18]

W E N D I G O, on 04 November 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

So you dislike the environment you created? Well that is what I was about. Your fault. All yours. Now let's have a look at one of McGals18 "successful" headshot builds. Gladly nobody took up the torch or we'd drown in threads about KDK3s being OP. Oh, wait...

How about you promote other stuff than the one you want to see not as often ingame instead of gimping single chassis. Atlas rolls over Kodiaks in close range.

The environment PGI created

Never forget that, we have no control over balance.
Pray, do tell about my headshot builds. Not Meta enough for you?



Now, go cry about losing your easy mode.