579 replies to this topic

[VorpalAnvil]

Nathaniel Johns, on 06 November 2016 - 11:19 AM, said:

My Quad AC Night Gyr can bring down a Kodiak with a little effort.

Season 4 stats: W/L 1.05 KDR 0.31

I'm going to refrain from further comments because this is just too easy. Low hanging fruit and all...

[Dee Eight]

W E N D I G O, on 07 November 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

At least everybody knows now why the "non-scrubs", "non-potatoes" in "non-scrub-tier" did cry for a leaderboard. To make the effective use of boring loopholes worth it again! To circumvent name and shame by using a new loophole! Can't wait for Solaris. Not gonna play it (because what would you possibly get?) but my, that forum buzz.

So the KDK3 messes up your leaderboard stats? Better dps tha your fav ECM build? Explanation why you want it nerfed. You know, I'm that curious. But really, those 15 hp (didn't look it up but iirc) in the center torso will solve it for you? Damn. That's like 2-3 medium laser hits. Speak about incremental changes. I'm all for it. Just to notice later the salty threads from the "comps" keep coming.

Pretty much why its pointless to respond to the folks that do it. Why waste time arguing with folks who think leaderboard tables which don't differentiate at all between solo or group play, have any bearing on how good someone actually is. Pretty easy to have high W/L & K/D ratios in group play with your own units compared to in solo play where there's no guarantee that even if you put all comp tier 1s together that they'd actually perform well together. I routinely end up with comptards who bark orders like they're in some unit drop and insult players who don't follow them, and that puts off the entire team who then ignores them. I tend to have my worst games when there's unit tags like Kcom, HHoD, MS, etc because it turns into a team of too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Edited by Dee Eight, 07 November 2016 - 07:24 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Dee Eight, on 07 November 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Pretty much why its pointless to respond to the folks that do it. Why waste time arguing with folks who think leaderboard tables which don't differentiate at all between solo or group play, have any bearing on how good someone actually is. Pretty easy to have high W/L & K/D ratios in group play with your own units compared to in solo play where there's no guarantee that even if you put all comp tier 1s together that they'd actually perform well together. I routinely end up with comptards who bark orders like they're in some unit drop and insult players who don't follow them, and that puts off the entire team who then ignores them. I tend to have my worst games when there's unit tags like Kcom, HHoD, MS, etc because it turns into a team of too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Just curious, but do faction play matches also factor into the leaderboard stats as well?

[Scout Derek]

W E N D I G O, on 07 November 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

Read something like that, yes. PGI updated it to include them as well afaik.

Maybe you guys want a new leaderboard? For a new exclusive comp tier? You don't want "seal clubbing" to mess up your stats, do you now?

Don't make me laugh. I haven't had my caffeine yet, Salt seeking Missiles don't work on me, ask Aphex. :3

Actually I was curious in the fact that I wanted to add to the discussion with video evidence showing the difference between Comp Vs Pugs and Comp Vs Comp in Faction Play. I recorded some last night and saw a clear difference, and just wanted to share.

To Clarify, I consider myself above average; I'm more of a heavy pilot than a Kodiak Pilot. Granted I did play the thing here and there, and refuse to play it sometimes due to it being too easy for me, only used for farming or comp play in the like. I like playing the new summoner (M), I finally found a mech that can actually use PPCs while not being completely one sided or slow.

[Dee Eight]

Scout Derek, on 07 November 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Just curious, but do faction play matches also factor into the leaderboard stats as well?

Faction Warfare got its own leader board with the phase 3 patch in April. The QP leader board started with the July patch. Of course in both cases, grouped unit teams and solo players share the same boards, and while playing solo you're at the mercy of who's in the queue with you as to how well a match might turn out. I've encountered definite farmers in solo QP mode, and likewise seen unit leaders who farm killing blows in FW matches. Again that's another problem with the boards. The results are easily manipulated to benefit a few at the expense of others on teams. That's also why in a lot of "higher" rank/tier players BMW about LRMs being brought to play. They let folks not sharing armor vulture the killing blows that the tryhards are desperate to get.

Edited by Dee Eight, 07 November 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[Scout Derek]

W E N D I G O, on 07 November 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

I just spilled my caffeine. But of course share, everyone wants to know. Everyone who never played this game.

ఠ_ఠ

Just how salty are you right now? I'm not even arguing with you and I can feel you trying to replace my soap with it lol.

Dee Eight, on 07 November 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Faction Warfare got its own leader board with the phase 3 patch in April. The QP leader board started with the July patch.

Didn't even notice it as I've been playing the game and rarely look at leaderboards. Thanks, I guess W E N D I G O is just trying to slap down anyone who in their eyes is remotely disagreeing with them.

[Dee Eight]

If the QP got seperate boards for Solo and Group played games, we'd probably see a lot of folks who brag about their high numbers, suffering in solo format without unit/team/friends there to help them vulture killing blows. I've spectated quite a few losing games where the last guy has armor/weapons but has run off to hide instead of trying to engage the enemy, and is just sitting out the clock or capture bars until the enemy wins. If they stay alive their K/D ratio improves, even if they didn't even manage a killing blow that match.

[Mystere]

Dee Eight, on 07 November 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Why waste time arguing with folks who think leaderboard tables which don't differentiate at all between solo or group play, have any bearing on how good someone actually is. Pretty easy to have high W/L & K/D ratios in group play with your own units compared to in solo play where there's no guarantee that even if you put all comp tier 1s together that they'd actually perform well together.

Which is why Solaris free-for-alls just can't come soon enough. I predict many people are going to be bitched-slapped really hard. <maniacal >

Edited by Mystere, 07 November 2016 - 08:55 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Dee Eight, on 07 November 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

If the QP got seperate boards for Solo and Group played games, we'd probably see a lot of folks who brag about their high numbers, suffering in solo format without unit/team/friends there to help them vulture killing blows. I've spectated quite a few losing games where the last guy has armor/weapons but has run off to hide instead of trying to engage the enemy, and is just sitting out the clock or capture bars until the enemy wins. If they stay alive their K/D ratio improves, even if they didn't even manage a killing blow that match.

For me, I play solo about 90% of the time, and the other 10% is FP.

The reason being is that I find that those in FP are faster at readying up than those in a QP group. maybe because they're leads focused or Lax? I dunno.

W E N D I G O, on 07 November 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

First, Derek, we may have had our differences but believe me, this was and is never intended to be personally at all. Even not other people posting here who may think of this in a similar way, boiled down I've got nothing at all against them because I not only don't know them, but I actually don't care enough. I do however care about certain problems of MWO which are related to certain attitudes which I now and then approach in forum warfare when encountered. That's all there is to it.

(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

Sounds like me, don't care that much anymore.

W E N D I G O, on 07 November 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

The leaderboard thing, I wrote I'm not sure. Or to be specific &quot;afaik&quot;. So there is that.

ಠ╭╮ಠ

Are we going to have to settle this in a trial Star Colonel?

[Zergling]

Dee Eight, on 07 November 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Pretty much why its pointless to respond to the folks that do it. Why waste time arguing with folks who think leaderboard tables which don't differentiate at all between solo or group play, have any bearing on how good someone actually is. Pretty easy to have high W/L & K/D ratios in group play with your own units compared to in solo play where there's no guarantee that even if you put all comp tier 1s together that they'd actually perform well together.

I don't play the group queue at all; I am a 100% a solo player, and so are plenty of great players with far better stats than mine.

All these excuses you come up with to excuse your own bad stats and other players having better stats than you, are proving you are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect; you don't realise you are bad, because the very knowledge needed to assess that you are bad are the very skills you are lacking.

When confronted with hard proof of your potato-ness, you rational mind is unable to say 'yup, you're bad' and is overruled by your ego.
So you make excuses to shield your ego, when none of those excuses stand up to reality; they are a total load of ****.

Edited by Zergling, 07 November 2016 - 10:56 AM.

[Davers]

Unfortunately this game has to be balanced around potatoes because of the bad weapon design of LRMs and streaks. Imagine what buffs LRMs would need to be used competitively, then think what that would do to the normal Ques.

[AphexTwin11]

Davers, on 07 November 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

Unfortunately this game has to be balanced around potatoes because of the bad weapon design of LRMs and streaks. Imagine what buffs LRMs would need to be used competitively, then think what that would do to the normal Ques.

really good point!! LRMS and SSRMS basically control the entire game balance!

Edited by AphexTwin11, 07 November 2016 - 09:50 AM.

[Reza Malin]

Malystryx VoF, on 03 November 2016 - 06:31 AM, said:

They can be "OP" under the right circumstances and with a good pilot in the cockpit.
here is the Dakka version with a nice match:

and here is a good version in the Dual gauss/ER-PPC version:


having said that though. it's also really easy to take them out in fast lights at the beginning of the match if you are a capable light pilot.

I've had matches where i took 2 KDK-3's off the field in my locust with 6 SPL's on grim from behind within 2 mins of the game start. with their hard points being that high, and the locust being so small, it's really easy to sneak up behind them and shoot the **** out of their backs with them being able to do NOTHING about it.

does that make the locust OP cuz you can take out KDK-3's without any problem if you get behind them? no it doesn't. it's all in how you pilot a mech and who pilots said mech.
Put an experienced pilot in any mech, and he can probably take out that KDK-3 with an inexperienced pilot in it.

Here is another example of a mech that is "OP" if ya know how to handle it.. the Warhammer-6D



and yet another OP mech.. this time said locust i took out those OP KDK-3's with.



and another OP mech


Mechs become OP in the hands of good pilots that play a lot and know maps, it's the Pilot that is OP, not the mech.

Mate, any half decent player could unload screenshots of scoreboards (if they are bothered enough to actually take them) where this or that mech did well.

Please do not make out like its all down to the pilot. What most of it boils down to in the QP environment is sheer PUG luck with your team. If you get on a good team against a bad team, then you can get an uber score in most mechs, as you steamroll the split and hesitant team opposing you. It has very little to do with skill other than being able to hit barely moving, smoking and shuddering potato mechs as they absorb half a team worth of fire one at a time because they are too spread to repulse a push that your own team has undoubtedly just done.

Because it was better.

Now as for the KDK3, and lets be clear it is only the KDK3 that anyone has said is OP. It is OP, because it should not be able to boat so much UAC firepower, so well, in such good hardpoints.

You can cut that any way you like, use your lore, use your rehtoric about how clans are supposed to be superior, or whatever crap people like to say when they own a KDK3 and desperately want to defend it from the nerf hammer, whether imagined or real.

The fact is, in a competitive PVP video game, based on mech and weapon selection, having one choice that voids all the other choices, in the largest most powerful category available is quite clearly requiring some balance attention. The only reason PGI have designed the mech this way is to generate sales. The only reason they wont nerf it is because the storm of tears it would unleash would be unimaginable, as people's K/D crashed back to their average levels they were before they got a KDK3.

Take out the battletech part for a second, and then think about why people are complaining about the KDK3

I don't care what anyone says in reply here, but if you can't see why what i said about balancing is true, then you are lying to yourself, or just a complete battletech supernerd that cannot understand basic balance concepts because they actually think they are some awesome mech pilot in real life and talk to other people using ridiculous words that dont actually exist anywhere, like "aff".

Edited by Fade Akira, 07 November 2016 - 09:55 AM.

[AphexTwin11]

Fade Akira, on 07 November 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Mate, any half decent player could unload screenshots of scoreboards (if they are bothered enough to actually take them) where this or that mech did well.

Please do not make out like its all down to the pilot. What most of it boils down to in the QP environment is sheer PUG luck with your team. If you get on a good team against a bad team, then you can get an uber score in most mechs, as you steamroll the split and hesitant team opposing you. It has very little to do with skill other than being able to hit barely moving, smoking and shuddering potato mechs as they absorb half a team worth of fire one at a time because they are too spread to repulse a push that your own team has undoubtedly just done.

Because it was better.

Now as for the KDK3, and lets be clear it is only the KDK3 that anyone has said is OP. It is OP, because it should not be able to boat so much UAC firepower, so well, in such good hardpoints.

You can cut that any way you like, use your lore, use your rehtoric about how clans are supposed to be superior, or whatever crap people like to say when they own a KDK3 and desperately want to defend it from the nerf hammer, whether imagined or real.

The fact is, in a competitive PVP video game, based on mech and weapon selection, having one choice that voids all the other choices, in the largest most powerful categroy is quite clearly requiring some attention. Take out the battletech part for a second, and then think about why people are complaining.

I don't care what anyone says in reply here, but if you can't see why that is true, then you are lying to yourself.

gr8 deb8 m8, 8/8.

You are basically lying to yourself

[Reza Malin]

AphexTwin11, on 07 November 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

gr8 deb8 m8, 8/8.

You are basically lying to yourself

Cheers mate, love you.

[dario03]

Dee Eight, on 07 November 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

If the QP got seperate boards for Solo and Group played games, we'd probably see a lot of folks who brag about their high numbers, suffering in solo format without unit/team/friends there to help them vulture killing blows. I've spectated quite a few losing games where the last guy has armor/weapons but has run off to hide instead of trying to engage the enemy, and is just sitting out the clock or capture bars until the enemy wins. If they stay alive their K/D ratio improves, even if they didn't even manage a killing blow that match.

That really depends on what kind of group they were playing with. Playing in a 2man isn't actually helpful but playing in a 6-12 is. Could also take into account the kind of mech they are using. My average match score actually dropped a decent bit this season when I played in a group. Playing in a 3-5man, while using a light, the matches typically ended faster on win or loss, and getting called out while flanking a lot more all dropped my score. Don't know exactly how much because I don't care much, but it was noticeable since my damage dropped.

[Davers]

W E N D I G O, on 07 November 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

Did you just say balance should not &quot;trickle down&quot; but instead the game should be balance around the majority of the playerbase?

Ideally, it should be balanced from the top. But the current lock on weapon mechanics ensure that they will never be truly viable at high levels of play, and will remain potato farming implements.

[Davers]

AphexTwin11, on 07 November 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

really good point!! LRMS and SSRMS basically control the entire game balance!

No. LRMs are a non issue in game balance discussions. Except, of course, to spot who the bad players are.

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 07 November 2016 - 08:55 AM, said:

Which is why Solaris free-for-alls just can't come soon enough. I predict many people are going to be bitched-slapped really hard. <maniacal >

So when Solaris FFAs show up and the exact same comp players are completely dominant, then what?

Are we going to go back to 'it's TEH HAXX!' accusations?

Because as a couple people in this thread clearly show the reality that some people are better at the game and understand balance better than others isn't going to sit well.

What I love is the idea that being a 'tryhard' and using 'the meta' is somehow supposed to be an insult. It's like trying to mock someone by calling them successful.

[Mcgral18]

Davers, on 07 November 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

No. LRMs are a non issue in game balance discussions. Except, of course, to spot who the bad players are.

They are an issue though, in how terrible one of them is.


In MWLL, I'll use LRMs (...mostly because I'm forced to), because they don't have hard counters.
Lock happens with any LoS mouse-over-target, and while both varieties of Jesus Boxes affect lock duration, neither stop locks.


The Magic Jesus Field is what keeps MWO LRMs from working as direct fire weapons, without sacrificing a ton for tag, facetime (due to not being F&F) and another X tons for Artemis (half lock duration, not Terribad spread).
Angle of fire is also a factor, as cLRMs come out pretty much straight in MWLL (with little to no min range)
Naturally, MWO can't have that part



They deserve a place in the game, but they'll never have one.