1017 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

OK. So it's just blah blah blah. Gotcha.

You see, if it was so super OP, you'd be parading your stats to bolster your claim.

Good to know. You used to be better than this, and actually would try to frame your arguments with facts, proof, etc. A shame. All I can assume is that it's just another extension of your anger at PGI, looking for anything to rip into them about.

I'd actually be delighted if you proved me wrong. I used to enjoy dropping with you, and respect your input. The last several months though? It's been like reading a Reddit thread. Pretty much everything you've thrown up has been refuted by sources a hell of a lot more reputable than me.

Nothing to see here, moving on.

Pity.

So basically:

If you're not doing well in KDK3 your opinion is invalid

If you're top scoring KDK3 player you're biased and your opinion is invalid too

Grats Bishop, with that reasoning you're absolutely right in all of your judgements, there's just no way to prove you're wrong, only that you fall somewhere in-between those two categories and your opinion is equally unimportant.

Whether you or anyone else is capable of undertanding the issue with KDK3 or not matters little, it WILL be nerfed and for objective reasons.

You know, you used to be better than this. Nothing to see here, moving on.

Edited by kapusta11, 28 May 2016 - 12:03 AM.

[Belacose]

kapusta11, on 27 May 2016 - 11:56 PM, said:

it WILL be nerfed and for objective reasons.

You're absolutely 100% certain it will be nerfed? The track record in this game is that the devs always listen to the vocal majority of forum posters and follow their lead?

I've just been playing this game a little over a month now so I really don't know how much the mob rules 'round these parts.

If Kodiak 3 does indeed get striped of its quirks then I guess I'll go back to my meta Banshee 3M with 5 X high mounted LPL and maybe pick up the Atlas Boar's Head and/or the Mauler as those seem to have even better quirks than the Kodiak. Should I pick up a Black Knight too? They're IS mechs so pretty safe from any nerf threat to their quirks, right?

[Hit the Deck]

Belacose, on 28 May 2016 - 12:40 AM, said:

...They're IS mechs so pretty safe from any nerf threat to their quirks, right?

You could think that way as IS is IMO still weaker on the base level (without quirks) but exactly because of that reason, they have far more quirked 'Mechs compared to the Clan and therefore the quirk-swings happen more frequently on the IS side.

It's kinda sad that quirks are now an integral part of a 'Mech and even the playerbase has embraced it but that's just the way it is.

[Nightshade24]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

yes, because I'm sure that's all you are carrying and the REST of your armament has NOTHING to do with it.

*drinks coffee, like a man*

4 ER medium lasers that I do not fire half the time due to the heat build up of that vs the cooler dual LBX 20's (which also have fire rate module to go with it).
I wish I get on any other map that isn't above 70 degrees celsius with my kodiak 3 just once. =l

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Personally, I get 2x Grim/Alpine/Polar/Frozen than any other map. Are you really getting Caustic/Tourmaline/Terra repeatedly? I just find it hard to believe.

All subjective reasoning, of course.

[Nightshade24]

Keshav Murali, on 28 May 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

Personally, I get 2x Grim/Alpine/Polar/Frozen than any other map. Are you really getting Caustic/Tourmaline/Terra repeatedly? I just find it hard to believe.

All subjective reasoning, of course.

Tourmaline spam with caustic happening once because (according to the all chat) so many people wanted to get a higher modifier and voted for the map that was least likely to be voted.
I do not know why but everyone seems to love Tourmaline in my time zone more then crimson strait or polar highlands.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Yeah, well, I love Tourmaline too.

[Karamarka]

KD3 deserves a nerf.

Speed, armor, twist, agility. 80 damage with double tap on high mounts. Arms as shields. What doesn't it have?

yeah

not OP at all. There is almost zero point to playing a heavy or lower, because the Kodiak is basically a heavy on steroids with none of the downsides of an assault.

Edited by Karamarka, 28 May 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[Steve Pryde]

Karamarka, on 28 May 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

KD3 deserves a nerf.

Speed, armor, twist, agility. 80 damage with double tap on high mounts. Arms as shields. What doesn't it have?

yeah

not OP at all. There is almost zero point to playing a heavy or lower, because the Kodiak is basically a heavy on steroids with none of the downsides of an assault.

Just remove its agility and structure quirks and it will be fine. And shrink/adjust the ct hitbox, it's way too big and yeah, I know how to twist.

[Mystere]

kapusta11, on 27 May 2016 - 11:56 PM, said:

Whether you or anyone else is capable of undertanding the issue with KDK3 or not matters little, it WILL be nerfed and for objective reasons.

We've both been here long enough to know that "objectivity" is not what gets things changed around here.

Edited by Mystere, 28 May 2016 - 10:33 AM.

[cazidin]

Can the KDK-1 and KDK-5 get agility quirks, please? The inconsistency is just... weird.

[Weeny Machine]

Karamarka, on 28 May 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

KD3 deserves a nerf.

Speed, armor, twist, agility. 80 damage with double tap on high mounts. Arms as shields. What doesn't it have?

yeah

not OP at all. There is almost zero point to playing a heavy or lower, because the Kodiak is basically a heavy on steroids with none of the downsides of an assault.

Exactly this.

However, this is how PGI makes money. People want a mech with the firepower of an assault but without its drawbacks:

This trend is not new, though. When the speed was nerfed light mechs suffered most. The agility which was lost for heavies and assaults was mostly regained through quirks. So much for balance. Ah yeah, it is totally acceptable that a light mech can be one-shotted or crippled by a lucky salve and mostly needs to get close to use his weapons.

However, the same people throw a fit when a light kills their precious heavy or assault mech.

[Gyrok]

Karamarka, on 28 May 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

KD3 deserves a nerf.

Speed, armor, twist, agility. 80 damage with double tap on high mounts. Arms as shields. What doesn't it have?

yeah

not OP at all. There is almost zero point to playing a heavy or lower, because the Kodiak is basically a heavy on steroids with none of the downsides of an assault.

Except the KDK is much slower, has worse turning and hill climb, and for a 100 tonner it has a glass jaw.

[Roadkill]

MischiefSC, on 27 May 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

If you're saying the KDK3 is "equal" to the others then why not set up some 1 v1 duels? Or are they not that sort of "equal"? So they're the sort of "equal" where the KDK3 is going to win more than 50% of the time?

They are absolutely that sort of equal. In fact my guess is that the MX90 will own the Kodiak more often than not unless you manipulate the engagements by allowing the Kodiak to start close to its ideal engagement range.

Fatlass is also likely to own the KDK-3 more often than not, though in this case range favors the Kodiak. Will that range advantage be enough to make up for the Fatlass's insane structure quirks? Hard to say.

Wubshee's quirks should put it on par with the KDK-3 for effective range, though the KDK-3 still owns theoretical range. Wubshee's also dealing with an Inner Sphere XL, though the KDK-3 likely can't take advantage of that until the Wubshee's within its optimal range. My guess is that the KDK-3 will win more often than not due to a slight range advantage and the Wubshee's XL.

I still call all three pairings roughly equal because the advantage either way is situational. Whoever gets the drop and is most strategically sound is going to win the duel.

So yeah, they're equal equal. No quotes needed. If you want to nerf the KDK-3, you need to nerf the Fatlass, Wubshee, and MX90 as well.

[Roadkill]

MischiefSC, on 27 May 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

No, I'm terrible in the KDK3 but still inexplicably say that it's OP, along with a swath of other people.

Was waiting for this to come up. I'm absolutely not going to get into anyones individual stats - that's anecdotal and my stats are no more individually reliable an indicator than yours or any other single persons.

The point is that based on the mechanics of it and the cumulative results of the most skill-consistent players (generally your top performers) it shows as needing the quirks removed.

Wrong.

Individually our stats are anecdotal. But in aggregate, they're very relevant. And except for a handful of truly elite players, everyone's stats are showing that the KDK-3 isn't OP.

Theorycrafting is fun, but reality rules. On paper, it does indeed look like the KDK-3 is OP. In practice it clearly is not, except in the hands of a very few, very elite pilots who built up those stats in an ideal PUG-farming environment.

Why are you afraid to wait a few weeks? Worried that a non-ideal environment for the KDK-3 will show that it isn't OP?

[SkyHammyr]

Tears over how KDK3s are touching people in bad places...

Heavy Queue still 40+%

[IQcreditscore]

Gyrok, on 28 May 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Except the KDK is much slower, has worse turning and hill climb, and for a 100 tonner it has a glass jaw.

I will say the glass jaw is CRAP. The uac10 build has a slightly subpar alpha (eww only 80 pts loooool) but with the ability to spam that alpha extremely fast until whatever poor mech in front of it is dead. So the ct is so huge it generally turns yellow while killing the poor heavy or med you turned the corner on. boo hoo. How many assaults can stand up to one from 20-500m? Someone bring out the atlas build that does no damage beyond 300m...... Yeah that's not a handicap build at all.

How many volleys can a kodiak fire in a short time before a heat warning even occurs is just plain silly. They can put out how much damage per second? That's where it is op.

[Weeny Machine]

Belacose, on 28 May 2016 - 12:40 AM, said:

You're absolutely 100% certain it will be nerfed?

Not before it is available for CBs

SkyHammyr, on 28 May 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

Tears over how KDK3s are touching people in bad places...

Heavy Queue still 40+%

After a weekend where people most certainly have played exclusively KDKs to level them and/or participate in said tournament this comes TOTALLY unexpected.

However, if you see a KDK it is usually a KDK-3... must be a coincidence, too.



In general:

When I read some of the posts here I like to listen to this song.
https://youtu.be/MWUJvTyl-m4

Edited by Bush Hopper, 28 May 2016 - 01:18 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Roadkill, on 28 May 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

Wrong.

Individually our stats are anecdotal. But in aggregate, they're very relevant. And except for a handful of truly elite players, everyone's stats are showing that the KDK-3 isn't OP.

Theorycrafting is fun, but reality rules. On paper, it does indeed look like the KDK-3 is OP. In practice it clearly is not, except in the hands of a very few, very elite pilots who built up those stats in an ideal PUG-farming environment.

The Kodiak has been the most popular mech since the TBR. Once the people who can't play assault stop playing it and go back to heavies we will be left with those who are actually proficient playing assault. The Kodiak then will be much more of a game changer and less of a score inflater for everyone else farming damage.

Right now turning a corner on a k3 is only slightly better than on the current ac20 arm6 Atlas and the Atlas has half the range of a K3. All maps favor engagement under 400 meters which is in itself a buff to the Kodiak because you are always in its effective range. When the Atlas push its a monster but he can only take close targets and cant assist well passed it's nose. The K3 will have better options when leading a charge. Once people stop using the K3 as a poker, they will be a lot more painful to deal with.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

OK. So it's just blah blah blah. Gotcha.

You see, if it was so super OP, you'd be parading your stats to bolster your claim.

Good to know. You used to be better than this, and actually would try to frame your arguments with facts, proof, etc. A shame. All I can assume is that it's just another extension of your anger at PGI, looking for anything to rip into them about.

I'd actually be delighted if you proved me wrong. I used to enjoy dropping with you, and respect your input. The last several months though? It's been like reading a Reddit thread. Pretty much everything you've thrown up has been refuted by sources a hell of a lot more reputable than me.

Nothing to see here, moving on.

Pity.

So if I put up my stats as anecdotal evidence and they're OP as ****, you'll change your tune? Because I don't believe you. More to the point I don't agree that anyones individual stats are adequate to identify a ally balanced mech. That takes an aggregate of stats to identify a trend.

So instead of debating the actual mechs independent stats you're trying to tie it to my specific stats, so then we can say "You're just having a good run in it" or "if you were in T1 it would be different" or other series of excuses.

It lets you shift the discussion away from the kdk3 being op to my personal stats with it - which are stellar, however it's not about my play in the KDK3.

If you get top tier comp players playing 1v1 and the KDK3 only goes 50/50 vs a Mauler, Wubshee and Atlas, great. Show me videos. Show me the aggregate data of as statistically comparable players as possible reflecting comparable performance in the mech.

Which won't happen as all the data to that regard shows the opposite and pretty much every comp player has said the KDK3 needs the quirks dialed back.

This isn't about my stats or yours in QP but mech balance. You should know better.