1017 replies to this topic

[Belacose]

Gyrok, on 29 May 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

You keep saying this hyperbole as if it will change anything...so, I will ask again...

Since when does a KDK3 move at 80-90 kph?

Can I please get a cXL500 that does not exist for my KDK also? That is not to mention that you cannot even run the max engine on the UAC10s dakka bear...it only travels at 65 kph.

My own fully mastered Kodiak 3 is a good bit slower than my mastered meta Banshee 3M - Banshee with XL 375 ( 68.7 KPH ) Vs Kodiak 3 with XL 365 ( 63.6 KPH ). Everyone has to downgrade the KDK-3's engine if they want ANY ammo for the quad UAC 10. ( My own KDK-3 has a Targeting Comp I and 2 X flamers so had to downgrade the engine a little further than most )

Those high torso weapon mounts make it's really tough handling light mechs when getting jumped up close. Strip the Kodiak 3's quirks and you may as well just sit there and die when a Cheetah or Jenner jump you. At least the KDK-1 and Spirit Bear can equip STREAK missiles to quickly dispatch those pests. Clan Active Probe on both mine.

Also have to often jump down into the fray when being attack from bellow at close range as you can't aim down much at all. Same with aiming up at close range.

Not really sure if the Kodiak 3 is much better than the Banshee 3M? With the Banshee I can alpha all five LPL then instantly torso twist with big ape arms pointed up in the air protecting my torsos. Double tapping the KDK-3 quad UAC 10's normally nets 70 damage as odds are a weapon will jam. 70 damage is of course better than 56, but it's a lot easier hitting moving targets with lasers. Lasers as well are a lot better than AC's when defending yourself from being jumped by light mechs too.

But, like I said earlier, I'll continue to enjoy my KDK-3 in the meantime. If it indeed does get stripped of its quirks because of all the moaning, I'll just go back to my Banshee and maybe pick up an Atlas.

Edited by Belacose, 29 May 2016 - 01:52 PM.

[Simbacca]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

Actually I wish they'd just cave in and do exactly what the forums ask. Then when the game ends up a million times worse than now, I can laugh at them.

Certain things that have been added/not added to the game have already done that.

[1453 R]

MischiefSC, on 29 May 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

You need to balance things everywhere as much as possible. Having a broken mechanic in one place isn't okay and it's absurd to say that it is. Saying 'well, yeah. It's OP in the public queue where most actual gameplay takes place but it's only a little bit OP, as in all but required, in comp tier so that's just like balanced' is another example of absurdity.

As a community we're a big part of why MW:O largely sucks. We say we want balance but what we mean is 'I want an advantage that makes me play better but everything else needs to be balanced'.

I enjoy the 5 LPL Banshee. I still say IS LPLs need burn time increased. I have 100 mechs in my mechbay, most bought with money farmed with the 2 years of OP as **** TBR. Still called for nerfing TBR until it was balanced. I supported dialing back the quirks on the BLK too. The Oxide needs dialed back. The GHR needs hitboxes tweaked to be better but could stand, in turn, some weapon quirks dialed back on the H - unless the LPL gets burntime fixed, then it's probably alright.

I own the KDK. In fact I'm still kicking myself for buying it because I supported PGI even though they have essentially done **** all nothing to make FW good and are abandoning it. The KDK3 is as good or better than the Banshee and Mauler, both, at what they respectively do in almost every way and it does it in 1 mech. I'm not alone in identifying that it's OP and needs dialed back. It also needs hitboxes fixed because they're bad.

Because a balanced game is better for everyone. Quit trying to preserve bad balance decisions. PGI does that enough already.

Thought experiment here, Mischief.

Let's say they do exactly what everyone 'claims' to want for the KDK-3 - strip its quirks, fix its hitboxes. No redquirks, no idiotic "We're relocating the torso ballistics to lovehandles hanging below the 'Mech's waist" lunacy - just exactly what you're saying. Strip the quirks. Assume the hitboxes get fixed even though we're all fairly certain that Piranha will keep the wonky weird hitboxes as a 'balance measure' because people are screaming all day erry day about the KDK-3, but for the purposes of this experiment: fixed hitboxes, no quirks.

What would you say if, after doing this, it is discovered that a naked, quirkless 100-tonner handles like a one-legged barn dragging a cement foundation behind it and has the durability of a well-piloted Rifleman because it happens to be about the same physical size as the Leopard-class dropship it comes in on and is almost literally impossible to miss. What if it's found out that the KDK-3 without quirks is, in fact, not good? Because it's not actually much more maneuverable than a Dire Whale, with no real options for arm-mounted weapons to alleviate its miserable torso pitch and what would, in a quirkless world, also be its equally miserable yaw rate?

If it's discovered, after the KDK-3 is stripped of its quirks, that it did in fact need quirks to compete...well, would you support the reintroduction of quirks for the KDK-3? Do you believe it would be possible for the KDK-3 to receive new quirks, once its current ones are removed, when it's discovered that being a gigantic 100-ton war pig with the mobility of a crashed zeppelin is not, in fact, beneficial?

When they strip the Spirit Bear of all of its quirks, as well as ripping them off of the KDK-2 and KDK-4 in order to alleviate The Kodiak Problem™, would that make for a more balanced, more enjoyable MechWarrior Online?

Have you piloted a Victor - with the intent of doing well in it - in the last year or two?

I used to love my Victors. I bought the full-up 385XL for it because I get a kick out of the idea of all that weight of metal moving much more quickly and nimbly than anyone expects it to. I pay a premium in armament weight and durability for that speed, but because of god damned ******** like this KDK-3 thing, I can never get any 'Mech bigger than 40 tons that's allowed to be faster/more agile than its size would suggest, because every single stinking frickin' time something that can pull the Lightning Bruiser combat style comes out, PEOPLE DEMAND PIRANHA KILL IT!

They killed Victors. Awesomes have been dead since before I started playing MWO. Gargoyles came out dead. Executioners came out on life support and have yet to recover. The Highlander IIC sucks at everything. Now we have Kodiaks, they can do the Lightning Bruiser style, but everyone wants them ultradeathmurderbuttnerfed because apparently anything and everything in the assault class needs to have all the combat mobility of a beached cargo tanker.

Everyone says "You can have any two: firepower, mobility, durability." They are clearly lying, because anything that has both Firepower and Mobility is ruined by this forum as fast as they can possibly manage it.

Why is that, Mischief? You're a Good Player, you've been around longer than I have. Maybe you can tell me?

[Hit the Deck]

Gyrok, on 29 May 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

So, IS mechs can come pre-quirked, but not clan mechs, even though clans are indisputably at the poor end of the spectrum in terms of tech tree balance?

That sounds a bit...biased.

Because the tech can't be made balanced at the base level, the seemingly superior Clan 'Mechs are used as a base for IS 'Mechs to be quirked. For this to work, those Clan 'Mechs themselves obviously can't be quirked. IS 'Mechs are released with quirks.

Then time passes and more and more Clan underperformers are released. This too got quirked to bring them up to par with the Tier Zeros (those everything is based on). As more quirks came along, it became more unclear what PGI is doing about the balancing and the playerbase accepted that quirks is an integral part of a 'Mech (for both IS Clan) because we are so used to it and almost every 'Mech is quirked. Now everything is a mess and the quirk pile can only gets higher.

As the quirk pile gets higher and higher, some players forgot that the quirks have already influenced the game highly and asked for weapon balancing at the base level. This can only get bad.

Ultimax, on 29 May 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

They're selling mechs dude, you think the Warhammer quirks are an accident?

Take a look at those mechs, then take a look at Cataphracts.

Then look at the quirk differences between them.

Well, I could wear my tinfoil hat and Russ stated before release that Whammy is his favorite 'Mech. But when I see the IICs, they came out without quirks, so what's up with that? PGI don't want to sell IICs although they made them?

[Ultimax]

Hit the Deck, on 29 May 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

Well, I could wear my tinfoil hat and Russ stated before release that Whammy is his favorite 'Mech. But when I see the IICs, they came out without quirks, so what's up with that? PGI don't want to sell IICs although they made them?

PGI's entire team is about 6 to 8 months behind the meta, and even then they don't completely understand what is actually going to be good.

Fear of a clan planet with Battlemechs that could harness the raw power of clan tech + the amazing flexibility of Batlemech options (yes, this is sarcasm) meant the quirk train passed IICs.



These guys still probably think the Timber Wolf is top dog.

[Hit the Deck]

Ultimax, on 29 May 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

PGI's entire team is about 6 to 8 months behind the meta, and even then they don't completely understand what is actually going to be good.

Fear of a clan planet with Battlemechs that could harness the raw power of clan tech + the amazing flexibility of Batlemech options (yes, this is sarcasm) meant the quirk train passed IICs.

These guys still probably think the Timber Wolf is top dog.

Yes, that's more probable than "they release 'Mechs with quirks because they want to sell them".

[Ultimax]

Hit the Deck, on 29 May 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

Yes, that's more probable than "they release 'Mechs with quirks because they want to sell them".

I'm guessing some bad play testers told them the face staring Kodiak would need some quirks for its enormous hitboxes, and that the laser vomit versions could possibly be OP.


Also, not being consistent doesn't mean they aren't actively buffing/nerfing mechs to sell them - in fact, as a strategy not being consistent means they can reasonably deny it and people will defend them.

Edited by Ultimax, 29 May 2016 - 06:28 PM.

[IQcreditscore]

Mystere, on 28 May 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

I will ask you the same question I asked before. Do you even know what "alpha strike" means?

If you would like to enter semantics into the discussion to refute one minor point of a multipoint argument ok. The "effective" alpha then if that suits you.

[Gyrok]

MischiefSC, on 29 May 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

You keep listing people who are saying 'remove the quirks' and saying they support no changes.

What speed do fast heavies travel at? What is their twist rate? You know, that thing that controls how effectively you can put crosshairs on a target? Especially for torso mounted weapons? Fastest clan Heavies go about 80, fastest IS heavies go about 70. Your KDK should be going about 65. It turns 25% faster than the Banshee and twists faster than a TBR. Accelerates and decelerates 35% faster.

It does not turn faster than a banshee.

Also, fast IS heavies go ~80-82, fast clan heavies go 87.

65 is considerably slower than both of those...by at least 25%.

Also, the BK, Banshee, Atlas, and many other mechs turn much faster than the KDK, only clan mechs without quirks twist same speed or slower...

Quote

It's far closer to the fastest heavies than any Assault and it's more maneuverable (turn, twist, accel/decel) than most mid-range heavy mechs for the IS.

No, actually...it is not even remotely close.

Compare a BK with XL350. Even without quirks it puts the KDK to shame.

Quote

Again, really simple. Play it 1 v 1 vs any other assault. Any of them. 1 v 1. If it can beat any assault more than 50% of the time 1 v 1 it's a balance issue.

It cannot though.

Quote

Also, again, because you keep glossing over this -

It carries the best loadout the Dire Wolf can carry, which was justified as reasonable on the Dire because the Dire handles like a pig and has bad hitboxes.... but it does it with the best maneuverability of any assault and over the shoulder mounts.

The best DW loadout is 2 UAC10 + 3 UAC5. You keep glossing over that. Once you can fit that on a KDK, call me.

Quote

I know you want to strawman back to 'but the Executioner is bad', that doesn't matter. Irrelevant to the balance of the Kodiak.

Every single hyperbole you put out is irrelevant, too. Look at the real numbers.

Quote

Most assaults, most mechs in general, need fixed. That has nothing to do with the KDK3 being imbalanced. For the balance we have and the current performance expectations for top tier mechs the KDK3, specifically, is out of balance. I know that makes you happy but bad balance is bad balance.

No, it is not.

[Gyrok]

Hit the Deck, on 29 May 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

Because the tech can't be made balanced at the base level, the seemingly superior Clan 'Mechs are used as a base for IS 'Mechs to be quirked. For this to work, those Clan 'Mechs themselves obviously can't be quirked. IS 'Mechs are released with quirks.

Except IS tech is now stronger. So if all the strongest IS mechs are above the baseline, what is the baseline good for?

Quote

Then time passes and more and more Clan underperformers are released. This too got quirked to bring them up to par with the Tier Zeros (those everything is based on). As more quirks came along, it became more unclear what PGI is doing about the balancing and the playerbase accepted that quirks is an integral part of a 'Mech (for both IS Clan) because we are so used to it and almost every 'Mech is quirked. Now everything is a mess and the quirk pile can only gets higher.

As the quirk pile gets higher and higher, some players forgot that the quirks have already influenced the game highly and asked for weapon balancing at the base level. This can only get bad.


Well, I could wear my tinfoil hat and Russ stated before release that Whammy is his favorite 'Mech. But when I see the IICs, they came out without quirks, so what's up with that? PGI don't want to sell IICs although they made them?

As time has worn on...all clan mechs are now under performing. If the baseline underperforms, then it needs to be adjusted upward. That is the point of balance.

Either that, or nerf IS tech into the stone age again by removing all quirks so the baseline is now actually a baseline again.

Which do you prefer?

[Mystere]

FLINTCOIN, on 29 May 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

If you would like to enter semantics into the discussion to refute one minor point of a multipoint argument ok. The "effective" alpha then if that suits you.

Considering you're exaggerating by 100% the potential firepower of the KDK3, yes, the precise definition of terms becomes very important in disputing your so-called "argument".

[Mcgral18]

Gyrok, on 29 May 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

It does not turn faster than a banshee.

Care to check those numbers? Because my 375 Kodiak (42.9) turns faster than my 400 (38.5) Banshee

The Lighter robot with the larger engine (without any agility or durability quirks)

Edited by Mcgral18, 29 May 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[Hit Mech]

PGI just reminded me why I'm going to wait for the c-bill F2P nerfed versions of the care bears. I just got a 2 minute little pu$$y penalty for reasons unknown. No team kills, no disco, no team damage, just a F-YOU! PGI is lucky no one else has a MW game, or they would have gone under long ago. If PGI made a game that didn't always piss players off then there would be no need for a poot-butt little penalty. But that's ok, because PGI will NEVER see another penny from this whale again. Care bears had me feeling weak, but I can always count on PGI to remind me why I hate them. GG!

Edited by Hit Mech, 29 May 2016 - 08:31 PM.

[Hit Mech]

Antares102, on 23 May 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

Oh bishop dont call for it. Have there already been twitters and a response from Russ?
No? So there is still some hope. Unless they give the KDK3 -20% ballistic quirks its gonna be fine without any quirks.

Don't worry, PGI is a long ways from giving the care bears the nerf hammer. Still too many suckers out there who will pay too much for the OP versions. PGI has this down to a science on how to get the most P2W dollars out of there loyal customers.

[MischiefSC]

1453 R, on 29 May 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

Thought experiment here, Mischief.

Let's say they do exactly what everyone 'claims' to want for the KDK-3 - strip its quirks, fix its hitboxes. No redquirks, no idiotic "We're relocating the torso ballistics to lovehandles hanging below the 'Mech's waist" lunacy - just exactly what you're saying. Strip the quirks. Assume the hitboxes get fixed even though we're all fairly certain that Piranha will keep the wonky weird hitboxes as a 'balance measure' because people are screaming all day erry day about the KDK-3, but for the purposes of this experiment: fixed hitboxes, no quirks.

What would you say if, after doing this, it is discovered that a naked, quirkless 100-tonner handles like a one-legged barn dragging a cement foundation behind it and has the durability of a well-piloted Rifleman because it happens to be about the same physical size as the Leopard-class dropship it comes in on and is almost literally impossible to miss. What if it's found out that the KDK-3 without quirks is, in fact, not good? Because it's not actually much more maneuverable than a Dire Whale, with no real options for arm-mounted weapons to alleviate its miserable torso pitch and what would, in a quirkless world, also be its equally miserable yaw rate?

If it's discovered, after the KDK-3 is stripped of its quirks, that it did in fact need quirks to compete...well, would you support the reintroduction of quirks for the KDK-3? Do you believe it would be possible for the KDK-3 to receive new quirks, once its current ones are removed, when it's discovered that being a gigantic 100-ton war pig with the mobility of a crashed zeppelin is not, in fact, beneficial?

When they strip the Spirit Bear of all of its quirks, as well as ripping them off of the KDK-2 and KDK-4 in order to alleviate The Kodiak Problem™, would that make for a more balanced, more enjoyable MechWarrior Online?

Have you piloted a Victor - with the intent of doing well in it - in the last year or two?

I used to love my Victors. I bought the full-up 385XL for it because I get a kick out of the idea of all that weight of metal moving much more quickly and nimbly than anyone expects it to. I pay a premium in armament weight and durability for that speed, but because of god damned ******** like this KDK-3 thing, I can never get any 'Mech bigger than 40 tons that's allowed to be faster/more agile than its size would suggest, because every single stinking frickin' time something that can pull the Lightning Bruiser combat style comes out, PEOPLE DEMAND PIRANHA KILL IT!

They killed Victors. Awesomes have been dead since before I started playing MWO. Gargoyles came out dead. Executioners came out on life support and have yet to recover. The Highlander IIC sucks at everything. Now we have Kodiaks, they can do the Lightning Bruiser style, but everyone wants them ultradeathmurderbuttnerfed because apparently anything and everything in the assault class needs to have all the combat mobility of a beached cargo tanker.

Everyone says "You can have any two: firepower, mobility, durability." They are clearly lying, because anything that has both Firepower and Mobility is ruined by this forum as fast as they can possibly manage it.

Why is that, Mischief? You're a Good Player, you've been around longer than I have. Maybe you can tell me?

Mobility controls your ability to apply firepower. It's why the Dire isn't an issue with 4xUAC10s and the KDK3 is and it's why the Oxide and Jenner 2 are a problem and the ACH is almost one if it wasn't so weak on Durability. It's why the Atlas is powerful but not crazy OP even with flat out stupid levels of structure quirks and an 80 pt (spread) alpha.

With its quirks stripped it's as maneuverable as the fastest Banshee builds and has both more sustained DPS and higher burst DPS, even with the 3Ms weapon quirks. It's also got more armor and with hitboxes fixed has the advantage of XCL vs ISXL for superior durability. So it's got better firepower (40% more), better heat management overall, comparable or better range, same maneuverability and as good or better durability. While both have high mounts the KDK3s are a bit better for getting over stuff.

If however there is some inexplicable problem with all this and it not having the ability to maneuver better than the best heavies (as in twist, the ability to keep weapons on target) results in it suddenly collapsing to trash tier, even with what is generally considered the best face-melting loadout in the game on over the shoulder mounts, then give it structure quirks. Absolutely. I'm 100% in favor of the KDK family line being 'T1', competitive tier assault mechs. At least 2 out of the set.

Currently though it's the best assault in the game by a significant margin. While you can argue that in comp play the value of 10 tons somewhere else in a deck might make downgrading to the Mauler a worthwhile decision or a specific player just being flat out better with the Banshees energy build taking that instead, all other things being equal I don't see anyone arguing that the KDK3 isn't pretty much OP.

Especially with the 'OP in QP' bit. That's bad balance. I get that QP isn't a good place to make balance decisions from however it's the bulk of the play in the game and **** needs to be balanced there. That's not rocket science.

So to answer your somewhat contrived question, yes. Absolutely. If the KDK3 ends up somehow magically worthless if it's only as maneuverable as a Banshee while having more firepower and better durability then it'll need quirks.

Just like the whole Clan assault line other than the KDK needs rescaled, possibly rebuilt from scratch, animation fixes and balance improvements that go beyond quirks. We need to accept the overall power creep and give the Dire Wolf 90 degree rotation for example and in addition to a rescale/remodel give it some hardcore structure buffs and twist rate buffs. While Clan weapon loadouts are flat out superior in general on a ton-ton basis the goal should be that if an Atlas and a Daishi walk around the corner in the tunnel in Crimson Strait it's even odds on who comes out.

[Hit the Deck]

Gyrok, on 29 May 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

Except IS tech is now stronger. So if all the strongest IS mechs are above the baseline, what is the baseline good for?

As time has worn on...all clan mechs are now under performing. If the baseline underperforms, then it needs to be adjusted upward. That is the point of balance.

Either that, or nerf IS tech into the stone age again by removing all quirks so the baseline is now actually a baseline again.

Which do you prefer?

Without assessing your claim and the minutiae of the state of balance, if one feels that the IS quirks are becoming too much, the correct course of action is to nerf those overperforming quirked IS 'Mechs. Obviously they are to be nerfed until they match the baseline and not to "stone age" like you said because that would be dumb.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 29 May 2016 - 09:11 PM.

[IQcreditscore]

Mystere, on 29 May 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Considering you're exaggerating by 100% the potential firepower of the KDK3, yes, the precise definition of terms becomes very important in disputing your so-called "argument".

You cannot be that dense. If you continue I might think you were a wannabe goon or something.

I guess you would consider the second click on the uac to be some undefinable bonus damage, although it is so close that it leaves the barrel the same time that a clan laser must be held on target (give or take a small bit). "Effective" alpha not good enough for you?


That damage over time that is excessive in how fast it builds before heat challenges/decently high mounts/optimal ranges it can work in/ with very nice maneuverability for it size is only lacking in tankiness for super op status. But yeah lets fix that ct hitbox. While we are at it make clan ac10/uac10's have a single projectile doing 10 damage.

How much damage can a kdk3 put out in what time increments from 0-6/7 seconds? Please enlighten us.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

just my 2 cents on this issue.

- Warhawk goes the same speed as an xl400 Kodiak, 69.7 kph, so no its speed is not unusual for clans which tend to emphasize speed across all weight classes. the warhawk also gets some really good quirks despite the fact its only losing out on about 3 tons by having ferro instead of endo (the locked equipment hurts it worse IMO)

- most viable Kodiak builds use something in the xl350-xl375 range. so no most kodiaks are not packing quad ultra 10's and an XL400.

- only spirit bear goes faster and tops out at 90 but it also has to devote 4 tons and 4 slots to masc and tends to be built to brawl anyway.

- Kodiak's have an oversized ct that sometimes makes them the sum of that 120 armor, Russ has confirmed that they will look into adjusting it. If it is adjusted correctly Kodiak's will roll damage a little better and overall, gain some on the durability scale. We will have to see how that plays out to make final conclusions.

- only the Kodiak 3 really stands out as a top performer. it can pack the firepower to be deadly at the most common combat ranges and can still move fast enough to not be left in the dust in the nascar race. that makes it about the only "good" clan assault by most measures of the pug que.

- the Kodiak 3, spirit bear, and to a lesser extent the other variants hit like an assault should, for far to long mediums and heavies have looked at most assaults as little more than a chew toy to milk damage from. this is very inappropriate, most assaults should terrify the vast majority of heavies and mediums in a straight up head on fight. and sadly it is still true for some Kodiak variants, they are chew toys.

- many of the Kodiak's suffer from the inability to hit a light that is hugging their legs because of very high torso mounts, they can be a blessing and a curse and are not always a straight "upgrade" compared to knuckle draggers.

- the Kodiak is literally the broad side of a barn being beaten out only by the actual barn yard door formerly known as the awesome.

- the IS has many good assaults for any role, from brawler, to snipers, skirmishers, alpha blasters, lurmers etc. and they often have more than one "good" assault for each of those roles. some of those mechs are the undisputed "top dog" of their role like the atlas 7s or the wubshee (for example).

- at this moment the clans have 2 maybe 3 "good" assaults that are worth their weight out of their whole line up. maybe half a dozen total "usable" assaults that are at least competitive enough that a good pilot can make them pull their weight.

- I think spirit bear actually needs a small buff, something like LBX spread or a small jam chance reduction (think 10-15% tops), nothing major but just a small bump to bring it up to the atlas 7S.

- i think the Kodiak 3 is fine, because even tho quad ultra 10's are really nasty, they still have to face tank you to use them and that leaves them very open to return fire from you and your team mates. its only 120 armor gents, its not that hard to drop any of them under focused fire.

- also im not seeing anyone cry about them being able to run quad gauss with those "evil" shoulder mounts, while packing 9 tons of ammo and going the same speed as a dire whale (which if you run on the whale you get about 4 tons of ammo before you have to start stripping massive amounts of armor). so without any debate the kodiak 3 is THE best quad gauss mech in the game and it doesnt suffer from gauss-XL death either, yet im not seeing anyone QQ about that. In a word, if your gonna call something OP at least SHOW a direct example of how that mech is CLEARLY an example of power creep vs the old champion. yes the whale can quad ultra 10 to, but the Kodiak cannot run dual ultra 10s with quad ultra 5's for the best of both worlds (ammo limitations aside).

- i think the quirk-less Kodiak's could use a little love but just in the agility/durability department, none of the Kodiak's really "need" any kind of weapon quirk, most are solid as they are.

- idk but im gonna go make a tinfoil hat and tell my dog that the clans are just a cruel inside joke at PGI headquarters. at least he will beleive me.

disclaimer, i own almost all clan mechs (missing only gargoyles and ice fridges), i also own almost every IS mech worth having (including a plethora of heros). i play on both sides here, i have brawled with atlas's in my spirit bear and brawled spirit bears in my atlas's. i have fought dakka Kodiak's in my maulers and banshees, and vice versa. and have found that like always. the better/smarter pilot tends to win most of the time regardless of the mech used.

i try to not have a horse in the race of clan vs IS but it does appear to me that the clans often get the short end of the stick anytime they have a mech that is even close to being truly worthy of carrying the moniker of a "clan" battle/omni mech. just look at the HGN-IIC, Kodiak straight up obsoletes them out the gate and yet PGI still refuses to admit that they (and IS highlanders too) need some serious help, something groundbreaking like letting them bend the engine rating rules.

plx note almost every clan 100 tonner in battletech/mechwarrior was a beast that was rightfully feared/respected, it really should be no different here.

[Mystere]

FLINTCOIN, on 29 May 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

You cannot be that dense. If you continue I might think you were a wannabe goon or something.

Goon? If they were only that lucky.

FLINTCOIN, on 29 May 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

I guess you would consider the second click on the uac to be some undefinable bonus damage, although it is so close that it leaves the barrel the same time that a clan laser must be held on target (give or take a small bit). "Effective" alpha not good enough for you?

That damage over time that is excessive in how fast it builds before heat challenges/decently high mounts/optimal ranges it can work in/ with very nice maneuverability for it size is only lacking in tankiness for super op status. But yeah lets fix that ct hitbox. While we are at it make clan ac10/uac10's have a single projectile doing 10 damage.

How much damage can a kdk3 put out in what time increments from 0-6/7 seconds? Please enlighten us.

I'll just throw what I said on another thread:

Mystere, on 29 May 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

CUAC-10 jam probability suggests that your assertion of 160 damage in 3-4 seconds is possible but not probable.

while letting you figure out the applicable numbers.

[MoonGlum Ebon]

If this demonstrates anything at all, its that laser and jj nerfs should be scaled back.
You got your balistic brawling and have had it according to your preference for quite a while.

Game should be designed as per intent, the intent of each chassis defined by its loadout, this happens in the real world all the time, god forbid some cruiser dude tells kawasaki how to make a freaking Ninja.

The personal remarks of especially the so-called elites players should be dealt with fly paper, they have the most to gain by taking advantage of there renown. Happened in MW4 mektek all the time, some of that mektek crap literally ruined the game.