1017 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 June 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

Just a curiosity question:

IDK about FW and the tournament, but in QP, for most of the last week? 1-2 KD on avg per drop.
Of those, KDK3 and KDK2 seem the most common with a smattering of 1 and 5s. Virtually no SBs to be seen, and the 5...while I'm sure there has been some, I honestly can't recall seeing one.

Most surprising thing is the number of KDK2. IDK, maybe I'm thinking too linear, but I don't realyl see the appeal. Even with max JJ, it's gets up and jumps SLOOOOOOOW. And it's hardpoints are hands down the weakest.

KDK3 is definitely strong, though I see a Loooooot of bad scores, even with the dread StareBear, and TBH very very little of the 1000 damage matches anymore. But the 3 is a very strong performer overall, on par wit the Wubshees and MALs overall, and maybe a bit stronger.

But I'm definitely not seeing 3s running around as "Win Buttons" on any of the matches I drop in. And as a tier 2, I see plenty of Tier 1 matches. If anything, the most obnoxious mechs I'm seeing are for sure those frikking Oxides, then Jenny IIs... after that, probably a mix of those 3 Assaults and VomitHammers. I hear the DakkaWidow is stronk, too, and again, maybe in team settings it really is, but PUGlandia, can't say they put the fear in me. Respect, yes, fear, no.

So what is everyone else encountering? Am I just in the Twilight Zone or has KDK bloat prety much passed? I know the Heavy Queue is back to it's usual 10%+ higher than assault, with assault and medium running neck and neck in MM when I drop.

I think people ran 100 matches solid in them, got sick of them and put them away.

I still find it stupidly powerful. 2x5, 2x 10 or even 1x5 3x10. Ghost heat on 3x10s isn't that bad and it keeps your burst at 70, which is a sweet spot for popping STS.

I'm seeing an increase is bad KDKS too. LURM KDKs and such.

[Corrado]

MischiefSC, on 16 June 2016 - 11:23 PM, said:

I think people ran 100 matches solid in them, got sick of them and put them away.

I still find it stupidly powerful. 2x5, 2x 10 or even 1x5 3x10. Ghost heat on 3x10s isn't that bad and it keeps your burst at 70, which is a sweet spot for popping STS.

I'm seeing an increase is bad KDKS too. LURM KDKs and such.

i keep having fun in it, 4UAC10, TC4, 10 tons, XL350, 14DHS, UAC modules, seismic, derp, UAV, coolshot.
a bad game floats around 500 damage. an average one is about 900 3kills / 5 kmdd. a good one is 1200 5kills / 7 kmdd.

218 matches in it, 200ish with 4uac10. 900 average damage, 4.23 kdr, 2,76 w/l. 100% pug matches.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 16 June 2016 - 11:23 PM, said:

I think people ran 100 matches solid in them, got sick of them and put them away.

I still find it stupidly powerful. 2x5, 2x 10 or even 1x5 3x10. Ghost heat on 3x10s isn't that bad and it keeps your burst at 70, which is a sweet spot for popping STS.

I'm seeing an increase is bad KDKS too. LURM KDKs and such.

Past Meta play here shows that ain't how people play. If something is OP as heck and works, people run it, not stop, unrepentantly. People didn't just stop running UAC5 Ilyas, BoomJagers, PPCStalkers, Poptarts, TBRs/SCRs and MetaWhales, not the Vomit of the Month Club.

If it were 100% broken, people would still be pretty much all in playing it. Most people can't resist EZMode.

[Corrado]

lets just sum it up.

direwolf released, king of the battlefield. IS got quirks, clan got energy range nerf. Atlas got good deserved buffs, heavies too. dire been more and more obsolete. then kodiak came out and replaced the weakness of the dire. lack of speed and shielding arms.

TLDR, dire from pimp to gimp, kodiak to even it.

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 June 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

So what is everyone else encountering? Am I just in the Twilight Zone or has KDK bloat prety much passed? I know the Heavy Queue is back to it's usual 10%+ higher than assault, with assault and medium running neck and neck in MM when I drop.

As predicted, the KDK-3 was only "OP" because of the perfect set of circumstances and superior players taking advantage of those circumstances. It's now just another strong assault in line with the Atlas, Wubshee, MX90, etc.

I see ~2-3 total Kodiaks across all variants per match between the two teams. No one KDK is always the best assault, though the 3 and SB seem to do that the most regularly. The 2 and 5 are unicorns. I see 1s, but likely only because they're 1(S)s and get the 30% c-bill bonus.

Basically, things are back to normal. I've finally mastered all of mine and have switched back to my Black Widow because I perform consistently better in it than in any of the Kodiaks.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadkill, on 17 June 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

As predicted, the KDK-3 was only "OP" because of the perfect set of circumstances and superior players taking advantage of those circumstances. It's now just another strong assault in line with the Atlas, Wubshee, MX90, etc.

I see ~2-3 total Kodiaks across all variants per match between the two teams. No one KDK is always the best assault, though the 3 and SB seem to do that the most regularly. The 2 and 5 are unicorns. I see 1s, but likely only because they're 1(S)s and get the 30% c-bill bonus.

Basically, things are back to normal. I've finally mastered all of mine and have switched back to my Black Widow because I perform consistently better in it than in any of the Kodiaks.

I believe this to be at least mostly true. If KDK3s were still everywhere, posting uberscores, I'm pretty sure certain people would be spamming those details on this thread, ya know?

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

If it were 100% broken, people would still be pretty much all in playing it. Most people can't resist EZMode.

True, but MischiefSC never said it was 100% broken, just that he thought it was a little OP and probably didn't need the quirks it got. And in the KDK weekend tournament environment, it clearly was. But I think the trailing off simply proves that the tournament environment was a perfect storm, and now that the storm is over it really isn't "OP" but simply "really good" like other top-tier Assaults.

At "really good" people will still play other things as the mood suits them.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadkill, on 17 June 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

True, but MischiefSC never said it was 100% broken, just that he thought it was a little OP and probably didn't need the quirks it got. And in the KDK weekend tournament environment, it clearly was. But I think the trailing off simply proves that the tournament environment was a perfect storm, and now that the storm is over it really isn't "OP" but simply "really good" like other top-tier Assaults.

At "really good" people will still play other things as the mood suits them.

Agreed. Which my particularly concern being the "nerf everything" approach being tossed out. The KDK3 is probably too strong. But it's not the P2W Ezbutton some claim, or it WOULD BE the Meta, with as many as possible in every drop...because that is literally how every single meta has played out.

So like I said, I would like to see some well planned out ideas that we can then test to see if it matters. I have stated my concern with dropping the mobility on the KDK3. It MIGHT work. Certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings. But I don't see it "fixing the issue" in the eyes of the masses, and thus the QQ (if there were any) would simply be for more nerfs. *shrugs*

Obviously UAC Jam doesn't affect any other build.

But my real concern is just to ensure they don't go full Highlander on it, and then the other KDKs get caught in the crossfire, particularly when Mischief has already made it clear he has an agenda to kill the SB, despite it not even being a Meta Mech, per se, and bu his own word, not demonstrably OP. And I admit, if it came down to fixing the hitboxes at the expense of it's agility, or keeping the bad CT and the Mobility, I very much prefer the latter as it gives the SB a unique character and playstyle among Assault Mechs.

Unique. Not better, not OP, just different. Which is supposed to be the point of Heroes, yes?

[cazidin]

Excuse me, Bishop. Do you think we'll get a sneak peek at the rescale or other hints of what's in the patch to come during tonight's Town Hall and if PGI doesn't drastically nerf the Kodiak how many bets will you lose?

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 17 June 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

Excuse me, Bishop. Do you think we'll get a sneak peek at the rescale or other hints of what's in the patch to come during tonight's Town Hall and if PGI doesn't drastically nerf the Kodiak how many bets will you lose?

never made any bets, but I am hoping very much that the TH features a display of rescales. But since I have no say, it's jsut my hope base don what I think would be a good idea.

Also, no nerfs this patch doesn't mean they still won't kill them.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 17 June 2016 - 10:25 AM.

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

never made any bets, but I am hoping very much that the TH features a display of rescales. But since I have no say, it's jsut my hope base don what I think would be a good idea.

Also, no nerfs this patch doesn't mean they still won't kill them.

I didn't make any bets either, and I thusly I totally won't win or lose $5.

True. The hitbox change could be for the worse or they could get nerfed in a later patch or hotfix. I honestly don't see a reason to nerf any of them except the KDK-3, which at worst should only get a reduction in quirks. In fact, I'd argue the KDK 1 and KDK 5 should get some agility or structure quirks to keep them even - especially with the new Power Draw a.k.a. Ghost Heat MK II which will be discussed tonight.

Got a favorite Kodiak?

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 17 June 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

I didn't make any bets either, and I thusly I totally won't win or lose $5.

True. The hitbox change could be for the worse or they could get nerfed in a later patch or hotfix. I honestly don't see a reason to nerf any of them except the KDK-3, which at worst should only get a reduction in quirks. In fact, I'd argue the KDK 1 and KDK 5 should get some agility or structure quirks to keep them even - especially with the new Power Draw a.k.a. Ghost Heat MK II which will be discussed tonight.

Got a favorite Kodiak?

KDK4. Stinkbear. Build posted various places on this thread. KDK-SB SplatBear is my second favorite.

Past that...I find them pretty meh.

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

KDK4. Stinkbear. Build posted various places on this thread. KDK-SB SplatBear is my second favorite.

Past that...I find them pretty meh.

KDK-1 is my personal favorite. I don't need quirks on a 100 ton Clan Assault Mech.

Anyone else want to share their favorites and/or builds? Might as well enjoy them before the assumed nerf.

[Corrado]

Roadkill, on 17 June 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

As predicted, the KDK-3 was only "OP" because of the perfect set of circumstances and superior players taking advantage of those circumstances. It's now just another strong assault in line with the Atlas, Wubshee, MX90, etc.

I see ~2-3 total Kodiaks across all variants per match between the two teams. No one KDK is always the best assault, though the 3 and SB seem to do that the most regularly. The 2 and 5 are unicorns. I see 1s, but likely only because they're 1(S)s and get the 30% c-bill bonus.

Basically, things are back to normal. I've finally mastered all of mine and have switched back to my Black Widow because I perform consistently better in it than in any of the Kodiaks.

im also alternating kodiak games and BW games. the BW is really really powerful... geometry is good, mobility is good, ballistic quirks on top of that. PPFLD makes it a good killer against lights and mediums, dps is enough and does never overheat.

could be a good platform for headshot practice. only drawback, with a STD300 is pretty much ammo limited. can't waste ammo since i run with 1100ish potential damage.

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 17 June 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

KDK-1 is my personal favorite. I don't need quirks on a 100 ton Clan Assault Mech.

Anyone else want to share their favorites and/or builds? Might as well enjoy them before the assumed nerf.

KDK-4 Bishop's "StinkBear"
my favorite build. Not my most potent, but has the most character an TT feel. And I do hurt my fair share of people with it. I even adapted it to TT, just with less DHS and MPLs in place of the SPLs to take advantage of TTs gentler heat phase, and harsher range penalties.
Bishop's TT Bear
LT DHS instead of in the Engine for crit padding, though if I mix tech it ever, I might slide them into the Engine for TSM and hand actuators.

Mind you I don't mean "Bishop Steiner" the TT character uses a Kodiak. That's just my TT build. "Bishop Steiner" actually pilots Marthe Pryde's Summoner (or has since the Battle of Conventry, long story) with this build:
SMN-Bishop but with an ER Small Laser in the RT next to the canopy. (same build I have used since before there was a Nicolai Malthus)

SPLAT BEAR
tried LB-20X just doesn't suit me. Plus this has decent heat control, until I run the flamers too long. But heatlock the other guy, while splatting away with SRMs, and it's gonna win a lot of brawls. MASC plus Mobility Quirks gives it a chance to break off and escape if focus fire occurs, which with it's hitboxes and lack of any real structure quirks, it doesn't last long against (and that's OK). Biggest issue is I just don't leverage the MASC well enough. I need to get better, and map a more natural to use hotkey.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 17 June 2016 - 12:44 PM.

[1453 R]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 June 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

...
Most surprising thing is the number of KDK2. IDK, maybe I'm thinking too linear, but I don't realyl see the appeal. Even with max JJ, it's gets up and jumps SLOOOOOOOW. And it's hardpoints are hands down the weakest.
...

As a note on this point specifically: I went with KDK-3, KDK-SB, and KDK-2 for mastery first, and ignored the -1. Specifically because 6E is sufficient E to do things like quad cLPL, and jets or not, the KDK-2 is also the only energy-centric Kodiak to get those agility quirks everybody wants off the chassis. That might explain the 2 - it's most of the effective energy firepower of a 1 or 5 but with quirks to help out instead of four or five energy hardpoints nobody can really properly use.

Edited by 1453 R, 17 June 2016 - 12:51 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

Past Meta play here shows that ain't how people play. If something is OP as heck and works, people run it, not stop, unrepentantly. People didn't just stop running UAC5 Ilyas, BoomJagers, PPCStalkers, Poptarts, TBRs/SCRs and MetaWhales, not the Vomit of the Month Club.

If it were 100% broken, people would still be pretty much all in playing it. Most people can't resist EZMode.

No people quit playing TBRs not long after they came out. I know because I didn't and dropped over 1k consecutive matches in TBRs while they were OP as **** and actively hunted the few other TBRs in matches since they were often the only real threat to me. I farmed enough cbills that way to buy and master about 70 mechs.

People burn out on good mechs pretty quick. How many meta Maulers, Banshees, BKS do you see? What you see are people leveling new mechs. Often bad ones.

It's miserable ******* like me that tend to ruthlessly exploit op mechs for months on end, farming bads in bad mechs for space ducats.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 17 June 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

No people quit playing TBRs not long after they came out. I know because I didn't and dropped over 1k consecutive matches in TBRs while they were OP as **** and actively hunted the few other TBRs in matches since they were often the only real threat to me. I farmed enough cbills that way to buy and master about 70 mechs.

People burn out on good mechs pretty quick. How many meta Maulers, Banshees, BKS do you see? What you see are people leveling new mechs. Often bad ones.

It's miserable ******* like me that tend to ruthlessly exploit op mechs for months on end, farming bads in bad mechs for space ducats.

dude, you couldn't get in a match without 6 TBRs in it until the HBR and then EBJ came and diluted the pool. (not counting momentary bumps like the TDR PPC menace) and until the last bump, what, 6 months ago that popped IS Laser Vomit to the forefront, those 3 C-Hvys were the majority of every single drop.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

dude, you couldn't get in a match without 6 TBRs in it until the HBR and then EBJ came and diluted the pool. (not counting momentary bumps like the TDR PPC menace) and until the last bump, what, 6 months ago that popped IS Laser Vomit to the forefront, those 3 C-Hvys were the majority of every single drop.

Calling shens on that. 2 or so per side. This was 2 years ago (more now? Are we almost to 3?) When it first came out before.


Currently amused that all the meta IS mechs got nerfs across the board, most down to nearly quirkless states. A 5% cooldown is about as close to irrelevant as you can get. The KDK? Nothing. So the Assaults listed as close to comparable to the KDK3 lost 50-75% of their relevant quirk values.

So where does that leave the discussion? Not that I think the KDK won't get nerfed - just unlikely to happen until after its out for cbills.

[Steve Pryde]

I'm crazy then I only enjoy the Spirit Bear Kodiak? Had so many awesome games with it in a big brawl with two/threeshotting mechs with it.