819 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Rampage, on 10 August 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

I look forward to breaking the new system.

XD my feels

The far more important question is "does pgi care what we want?"

Because historically its been no

[Tordin]

Fart Huffer, on 10 August 2016 - 07:44 PM, said:

Based on this entier 32 page thread I still have not seen a SINGLE good reason for why the big alphas are even a problem. The only thing people have had to say is "WHHAAA" and thats not a very good argument. This kind of crap is why I would NEVER spend any real money on this crap. If the problem is laser vomit the solution is to introduce reflective armor and its that simple. Then the piss wads who complain about it can shut up about it....and them subsequently cry because they are now more vulnerable to other kinds of weps thus prove what a bunch of stupid pusys they are.

My Mad Dog has a 101 points of damage and it only has 3 lasers. I can PROMISE you that it would melt the face of all the pansy *** cry babies faster than any laser alpha in the game. This is such a moronic debate.

Big alphas should only be used in dire situations, last resort and possible for the select mechs that are meant to alpha more than others, even then they shouldnt go overboard with it and possible have some negative agianst more alphas. Even MWO this could be the rule, with some tweaking surely.

Since chainfire/ generalist/ stock builds might become alot more useful, Im so gonna lurm more, alot of lurm, prepare to suffer! *mad laughter*

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tordin, on 11 August 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Since chainfire/ generalist/ stock builds might become alot more useful, Im so gonna lurm more, alot of lurm, prepare to suffer! *mad laughter*

I'm gonna spoil this for you, but power draw won't make any of those better.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 11 August 2016 - 07:42 AM.

[Davers]

Instead of talking about pie in the sky solutions ("reticle bloom! Proper heat penalties!") we should work the problem at hand. Energy Draw is coming. If AC5 (and maybe AC10) are going to break the system, how do we deal with it? Should they have Ghost Damage and a really high heat penalty?

[Y E O N N E]

Davers, on 11 August 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

Instead of talking about pie in the sky solutions ("reticle bloom! Proper heat penalties!") we should work the problem at hand. Energy Draw is coming. If AC5 (and maybe AC10) are going to break the system, how do we deal with it? Should they have Ghost Damage and a really high heat penalty?

No, it is preferable and simpler to just not implement the "power draw" system.

[Hotthedd]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 August 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

I said "accurate use" for a reason.

Your definitition of "accurate use" is extremely narrow. Accurate does not have to mean hitting a single pixel, generally it means hitting within the scope.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 August 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

In misrepresenting what the meta is even about which is related to this:

Either way, you do not attack the argument, you attempt to invalidate the premise, which is based solely on your opinion and interpretation.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 August 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

Ima stop you right there because you don't seem to get what exactly I'm even stating when I suggest this, the reason I say that is because you say that alpha the meta currently is about alphas, which is bogus, that's the statement I'm addressing, nothing else. You are arguing that there is a problem when there isn't actually a problem.

No, I said the meta is, and has always been, about group fire. This is because, as I have stated and you have never refuted: group fire is more effective than chain fire in almost every situation. And this is against the BT universe, in which this game is supposedly set.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 August 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

I don't care what the rest of the "alpha" crowd has said, that doesn't excuse you from anything especially since I have not said anything about this.

Then you should be more careful in your posted assertions. You said you have not seen any of those things. You did NOT say that you personally have not done so. You can move the goalposts all you like, but my point still stands.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 August 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

Now this is the funny one, does it matter whether it's multiple small weapons or one large weapon? The effect is going to be the same, people are going to try and build mechs around this idea, that's what specialization is all about.

Yes, it DOES matter. Being able to use the crutch of multiple small weapons having the same advantage as one big weapon, with NONE of the drawbacks removes a fundamental balancing tool. A very skilled player would have a better chance of landing 4 AC/5 shots on one component using chain fire than a less skilled player, but if every shot is guaranteed to hit the same component with a single shot in group fire, then that skill barrier is removed.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 August 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

Let's say we doubled damage and heat on all weapons to make them as effective as their TT counterparts, the effect is exactly the same, it is still going to be about building a super weapon, the only difference is that it can be done with fewer weapons (which makes it harder to balance mind you), so why is the number of weapons it takes to have that effect so problematic? Why is an AC40 build so problematic when it has the same punch as a single AC20 in TT?

You DO realize that damage and heat on all weapons is already TRIPLE their TT values, right? A single AC/20 does 20 pts. of damage over 10 seconds. In MW:O, it can fire almost three times in that span.
The reason that it is problematic, is that 20 damage from 4 AC/5s would almost NEVER all hit the same component. Smaller weapons spread damage as opposed to bigger weapons that don't, for the same amount of damage. THAT is the trade-off (balance). In MW:O, that balancing tool is thrown out of the window.

[Hotthedd]

Davers, on 11 August 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

Instead of talking about pie in the sky solutions ("reticle bloom! Proper heat penalties!") we should work the problem at hand. Energy Draw is coming. If AC5 (and maybe AC10) are going to break the system, how do we deal with it? Should they have Ghost Damage and a really high heat penalty?

Just curious, but how are those solutions "pie in the sky"?
Or are you saying that PGI lacks those programming capabilities?

[Gas Guzzler]

Hotthedd, on 11 August 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

I can show you dozens that the alpha first crowd likes to employ. The best example is attacking the "random shots", which is not an argument I have made.

Maybe that was in response to you wanting multiple shots fired at once to not be accurate? That's what I remember you saying but I could have been skimming I suppose.

[Davers]

Yeonne Greene, on 11 August 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

No, it is preferable and simpler to just not implement the "power draw" system.

Well it's going on the test server and may end up in game. Many people are obviously still hung up on the laser meta, and will see the reduced laser builds as a good thing and not realize the side effects. It may get voted in.

This isn't infowar where everyone noticed they couldn't lock on their LRMs and got pissed. People may actually support this.

[Jerry Beard]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 August 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

If you think this game is all about twitch skills then I don't think you have any real say on the matter because you are misinformed on what makes good players actually good (hint: it's positioning). Also keep in mind some of the more recent meta mechs have alphas lower than 35 (Dakkahammer, Dakka Mauler, PPC/AC5 Hammer, 2 ERPPC Hunchie IIC, ERPPC/Gauss Timby).

Positioning is the use of the terrain to your advantage which takes thinking there [Redacted]. Tactics and the use of them require a certain amount of thought that is then applied in a practical use to whatever you tend to be doing at the time. The ability to acquire the tactics that a lot of people have come up with in this game takes at least half a brain and some of these folks here are pretty darn smart. Just because you use a tactic goes to show that SOMEONE put some THOUGHT into it. Ergo....WAIT FOR IT......Thinking. [Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 11 August 2016 - 08:50 AM.
insults

[Davers]

Hotthedd, on 11 August 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Just curious, but how are those solutions "pie in the sky"?
Or are you saying that PGI lacks those programming capabilities?

Because these ideas have been suggested a thousand times, even before there was a playable version of the game, and PGI has shown zero interest in it. Instead they have decided on Energy Draw.

[Y E O N N E]

Davers, on 11 August 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

Well it's going on the test server and may end up in game. Many people are obviously still hung up on the laser meta, and will see the reduced laser builds as a good thing and not realize the side effects. It may get voted in.

This isn't infowar where everyone noticed they couldn't lock on their LRMs and got pissed. People may actually support this.

The operative phrase in all of this is "may get voted in," which means that we shouldn't assume it is a given. Russell even said on Twitter that he would be, and I quote, "all ears" on feedback and suggestions to improve it once it is on PTS.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 11 August 2016 - 08:07 AM.

[Davers]

Yeonne Greene, on 11 August 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

The operative phrase in all of this is "may get voted in," which means that as much as we shouldn't assume it is a given. Russell even said on Twitter that he would be, and I quote, "all ears" on feedback and suggestions to improve it once it is on PTS.

He was all ears on UI2.0 too, but it was still implemented exactly as it was on the test server despite the feedback.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jerry Beard, on 11 August 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

Positioning is the use of the terrain to your advantage which takes thinking there [Redacted]. Tactics and the use of them require a certain amount of thought that is then applied in a practical use to whatever you tend to be doing at the time. The ability to acquire the tactics that a lot of people have come up with in this game takes at least half a brain and some of these folks here are pretty darn smart. Just because you use a tactic goes to show that SOMEONE put some THOUGHT into it. Ergo....WAIT FOR IT......Thinking. [Redacted]

Hey, you implied this wasn't a thinking man's shooter and now you are saying it does require thinking? So you just posted to insult him and then say "yeah it takes thinking"? Did I just have a stroke or something?

Edited by draiocht, 11 August 2016 - 08:52 AM.
Quote Clean-Up

[Ultimax]

Davers, on 11 August 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

Instead of talking about pie in the sky solutions ("reticle bloom! Proper heat penalties!") we should work the problem at hand. Energy Draw is coming. If AC5 (and maybe AC10) are going to break the system, how do we deal with it? Should they have Ghost Damage and a really high heat penalty?

Players just keep hounding for nerfs, until the worst of the terribads can survive for minutes at a time making the dumbest of mistakes.

Rock'em sock'em dumbots, here we come.

[Y E O N N E]

Davers, on 11 August 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

He was all ears on UI2.0 too, but it was still implemented exactly as it was on the test server despite the feedback.

But information war was not. Minimal was changed within 24 hours. Dequirking was deemed a bad idea from PTS results, and so they stayed.

For as many times as PGI has fumbled ahead, they've also reconsidered.

[Deathlike]

Ultimax, on 11 August 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Players just keep hounding for nerfs, until the worst of the terribads can survive for minutes at a time making the dumbest of mistakes.

Rock'em sock'em dumbots mwoebots, here we come.

Fixed for you.

[Gas Guzzler]

I think the fundamental issue is, some people need to realize PvP MechWarrior isn't for them. Feeling like an unstoppable god is a thing for solo player campaign type games.

[Jerry Beard]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 August 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Hey, you implied this wasn't a thinking man's shooter and now you are saying it does require thinking? So you just posted to insult him and then say "yeah it takes thinking"? Did I just have a stroke or something?

Nope I said " That this was supposed to be a thinking man's Shooter"

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 August 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

I think the fundamental issue is, some people need to realize PvP MechWarrior isn't for them. Feeling like an unstoppable god is a thing for solo player campaign type games.

Or for gittin real gud...