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Does This Community Really Want An Energy Draw Feature?


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#461 dervishx5

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 03:32 PM

View PostJohnny Z, on 09 August 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

I'm not talking to a toddler, and I just said if hes going to bash people do it somewhere else. I don't want to hear it. Posted Image maybe others don't either. I got as much right to ask him to bash elsewhere as he has to do bashing I guess or what? You got a problem with that?


Analogy.

If you don't want to read it, then don't. These are a forum and people can say what they want as long as it doesn't violate the CoC.

You're not an authority here. You don't get to decide what's on topic, what has a point, or what is trolling.

You can say it, but it means nothing.

Edited by dervishx5, 09 August 2016 - 03:33 PM.


#462 Johnny Z

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 03:46 PM

View Postdervishx5, on 09 August 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:



Analogy.

If you don't want to read it, then don't. These are a forum and people can say what they want as long as it doesn't violate the CoC.

You're not an authority here. You don't get to decide what's on topic, what has a point, or what is trolling.

You can say it, but it means nothing.


Your a comedian today. I asked him not to bash people and your bashing me in return. Give it a rest. :)

#463 dervishx5

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 03:50 PM

View PostJohnny Z, on 09 August 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

Your a comedian today. I asked him not to bash people and your bashing me in return. Give it a rest. Posted Image


You've been going around being a wanna-be mod all day. It's getting old.

#464 Kirkland Langue

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 03:58 PM

View Postbadaa, on 09 August 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

listening to what the community wants is what has been keeping this game from moving forward


Whether PGI is listening or not has nothing to do with the game not moving forward.
What is keeping the game from moving forward is that PGI isn't doing anything to make it move forward.

PGI is more than welcome to come up with a goal for what they would like the game to look like, and then start developing the game to actually reach that point. They most certainly do not need to listen to the community.

The problem is that PGI isn't doing that. Sure, they flip-flop back and forth between telling the community that they have all the answers; and trying to prove to the community that they are listening to us. But PGI doesn't actually pick a destination and try to head there.

PGI is lost in the woods. Their food/water supplies are running low, night is about to settle in, they are scared about what will happen with their food and water runs out... but instead of picking a direction and going - they stand still like a deer in the headlights of an oncoming truck.

#465 Johnny Z

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 03:58 PM

View Postdervishx5, on 09 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:



You've been going around being a wanna-be mod all day. It's getting old.


Your the one acting like a wannabe mod. Get real. So funny. Read your replies.

#466 dervishx5

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 04:03 PM

View PostJohnny Z, on 09 August 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

Your the one acting like a wannabe mod. Get real. So funny. Read your replies.


I haven't told you to stop posting like you've told others to do. Post away.

I'm just criticizing your attempts to mod them.

Here's a link to criticism so you can read about what it means: https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Criticism

Hopefully you'll figure out the differences between that and trolling as well.

Anyway I leave it to the mods to settle this little outburst. As they've told me before, if you don't like what someone is saying, report them. Egg on my face for informing others of that I guess.

Edited by dervishx5, 09 August 2016 - 04:11 PM.


#467 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 04:08 PM

The big problem I see about this is it potentially makes for way too much micro-management and that is likely to frustrate people rather than improve game play. I mean based on what I am readying your going to have a situation where if you fire 1 LPL and 2 ER MLs your fine but if you fire 1 LPL and 3 ER MLs your going to spike in heat exponentially and some how, some way in the middle of battle your going to have to remember this and not "accidently" press too many buttons at once and fire too many weapons on your mechs heat efficiency goes out the window.

Then there is the issue that most of us can only manage about 3-4 weapons groups so I might have a situation where I put my 2 LPL on mouse button 1 and 2, while putting my 4 ER MLs on my spacebar while my AC/10 is in mouse button 3 yet, if I fire one of my LPLs and more than 2 of my ER MLs I am going into powerdraw. So than how do I break my groups up so that I can keep my LPLs on two buttons to manage heat effectively and keep my other weapons to their assigned buttons when I will need to occasionally only fire 2 ER MLs instead of 4?

Basically it just doesn't seem to be straightforward enough and dummy proof while keeping the weapons controls simple enough that the average player is going to be able to keep up with it all.

Also it potentially cripples some mechs because they completely rely on a high sustained damage output to be competitive. The Direwolf is a prime example. It is a huge target with rather poor hit boxes and has the mobility and agility of a beached whale. The one thing that makes it dangerous on the battlefield is that if it can get you in its sights, it is going to punish you severely. Attach power draw to a mech like this that limits it alpha to around 35 damage and I got to ask what is the point of using a mech that can mount 50+ tons of weapons?

Also if the scale the power draw based on the chassis to account this, then you start potentially crippling smaller mechs. I have a Jenner that runs 6 MLs and it needs that firepower to be effective. Toss a Power Draw on that mech that keeps me from being able to keep up sustained fire from all those lasers and the mech can't compete. Also this would mean that smaller mechs that happen to be graced with alot of free tonnage for weapons and will be greatly penalized if scaling is added.

Also nothing changes in the end. What I mean by this is that even with power draw, there is going to some sort of efficient build that will become meta. For example, lets say they make it so that 40 damage you can alpha without generating the extra heat. All that will mean is that any mech that can be optimized to fire only 40 damage will become the new meta. All of a sudden the Centurion becomes the best mech because it can achieve maximum efficiency and then people are complaining about how it is unfair Assaults can't take advantage of the weapons they can mount or the locust can't achieve 40 damage alpha or how XL engines are obsolete because it doesn't make sense to free up weight for weapons you can't use effectively.

Finally I will say one last thing. The game has been out too long to change up the game mechanics that much. Alot of people have a crap ton invested into this game buying mechs that work well with the current meta. Change how these mechs work, ruin a few of the favorites and people are going to bail. All anyone has to do is look back to Star War Galaxies, to see just how quickly dramatically changing how the game works and plays will kill a game. People have invested 3-5 years into this game polishing skills, learning how to play, etc. Change it so all that time and effort is wasted and they WILL bail.

So all I can say is this is a really slippery slope for PGI.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 09 August 2016 - 04:09 PM.


#468 The Lost Boy

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 04:10 PM

This is NOT a democracy.

#469 prox

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 04:10 PM

Nope.

Current gameplay is good if you ignore the existence of Kodiak 3 and wont improve by introducing another obscure bandaid.

#470 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 04:42 PM

View PostDjPush, on 09 August 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

Yes. I have been waiting two years for it. Time for PGI to sack up and stop listening to the bads on the forums. You have an idea PGI, just follow through with it and to hell with the cry babies. Look what listening to the QQ has got you so far. Nothing, more QQ. Just do it!


You have been waiting two years for a zerg rush dakka meta? Why? Lol.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 09 August 2016 - 04:47 PM.


#471 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:07 PM

Id like to Try the New Draw Feature, before i Label it as Good or Bad,
to i have hopes for it? yes, i think if implemented Right it can spice up game play,
but no one is sure, not until it gets Released to the PTS and we can Try it out, Posted Image
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 09 August 2016 - 05:07 PM.


#472 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:13 PM

View Postprox, on 09 August 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Nope. Current gameplay is good if you ignore the existence of Kodiak 3 and wont improve by introducing another obscure bandaid.


What I don't understand is why I never seem to have problems with all these mechs people complain about.

Do Kodiak 3's occasionally kill me? Yep they sure do but most often when I see I am facing a Kodiak 3, I don't try to face hug him and hope I can out DPS/alpha strike him, instead I try to come at him from a different angle or catch him unaware or some other tactic that doesn't involve me standing in front of him taking all his DPS in my teeth. Also people seem to forget that the Direwolf can mount the same build and then some but is very rare that anyone calls the "Direwale" OP anymore.

Nope The Kodiak 3 just happens to be new and alot of people are playing them so people are suffering from the "Wah..it killed me so it must be OP" syndrome. As soon as the next new mech that happens to be good at killing people who stand right in front of it comes along, the Kodiak 3 will be forgotten just like the Direwolf has and that mech will be the OP gorilla in the room...until the next one comes along...then the next...and so on.

Personally I predict that the next OP mech will be the new MAD IIC and not only will it be OP but it will be P2W because the hero will be able to mount a Dual Gauss, Dual ER PPC build while running at like 80 kph. Soon as that hits, Kodiak 3 will be a memory hehe.

#473 Navid A1

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:15 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 09 August 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

You have been waiting two years for a zerg rush dakka meta? Why? Lol.


Well, high alpha, no penalty vomits ARE a problem... no matter if they are still meta or not.
I'm eager to test this system before giving judgement. It has potential.

Dakka meta? Only dakka meta I know right now is in the MWOWC build atm...
honestly, the mauler, the dire, the blackwidow and the kodiak made good use of ballistics... before them ballistics (ACs) were basically extinct.

You need big hulking assaults for a dakka meta... and zerg rushes in those are a bit more challenging... besides, 12 100 ton assault mechs should crush anything that stands against them...

zerg rush problem is because of the map design. there is 1 main objective and the attackers know its exact place... THAT leads to zerg rush... not dakka meta!

I've been yelling this for more than a year now... FW map design is the main problem... current maps are SH*T. One BIG objective on a single location that everybody knows about.
PGI designed FW in a rush and did not think this through when designing maps. And they are too stubborn to change the maps (THE MAIN PROBLEM OF FW)... Let them play with buckets all they want.

Edited by Navid A1, 09 August 2016 - 05:35 PM.


#474 Kuaron

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:21 PM

Can anyone explain for me, what this energy draw is supposed to be?
I mean, we have a least a term different from ghost heat or whatever the official name for the current heat penalty is. Is “Energy Draw” supposed to tell me something about the idea of how it works or what it depends on?
Some people are speaking of it as an alpha cap. Is it now dependant on salvo damage instead of number of similar weapons fired? I hope not. What then?

#475 Moldur

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:24 PM

More than a single thing must be achieved to make the game better. I fear many will be disappointed, as it seems like people expect to become better players solely because of laser vomit becoming outmoded.

Yes yes, perhaps nobody says it outright, but I know there are people thinking it. Sadly for them, Ghost Heat 2.0 will result in an almost completely lateral paradigm shift. If you are getting killed constantly by high damage alphas, you will only be getting constantly killed by something different after this change.

I do not fall into that group, however. Honestly, I will take anything that will change up the stale gameplay. If Ghost Heat 2.0 flips the game on its head, bring it on. I have no issue. I find that prospect to be far more pleasing to me than this "revamp" changing the game only a smidgen.

#476 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:26 PM

View PostKuaron, on 09 August 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

Can anyone explain for me, what this energy draw is supposed to be?
I mean, we have a least a term different from ghost heat or whatever the official name for the current heat penalty is. Is “Energy Draw” supposed to tell me something about the idea of how it works or what it depends on?
Some people are speaking of it as an alpha cap. Is it now dependant on salvo damage instead of number of similar weapons fired? I hope not. What then?

what we Currently Know, and what i have Compiled is here,
(Power Draw, What We Know, How It Will Work!)

#477 Razorfish

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:30 PM

To be honest I would prefer the non-pin point approach that has been suggested several times. Your biggest attack hits the location you where aiming at and the rest of the attacks scatter to other hit locations randomly (so you could hit the same location with more than one). This is more like table top and I would be all for it. But that’s not going to happen so…

I will take anything that puts limit on the huge alpha strikes.

#478 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:34 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 09 August 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Id like to Try the New Draw Feature, before i Label it as Good or Bad, to i have hopes for it? yes, i think if implemented Right it can spice up game play, but no one is sure, not until it gets Released to the PTS and we can Try it out, Posted Image Edit- Spelling


On one hand I tend to agree with you but PGI doesn't exactly have a good track record with these sorts of things. All I have seen PGI do since back in closed beta is generally make things worse, at least where balancing is concerned.

A power draw mechanic could work if it was restricted in a sensible manner and not tied to heat. For example instead of heat, have it tied to weapons recharge so that the more weapons and bigger weapons you fire simultaneously, the longer between being able to fire again. This would mean someone firing 2 Gauss and 2 ER PPC might have to 30 seconds to fire again. Hell make it so each weapon has a power requirement and you can't have a higher requirement than your engine rating. For example, make it so the Gauss Rifle and ER PPC requires 100 power each so to mount 2 Gauss and 2 ER PPCs you would have to mount a 400 rating engine. Same for someone unloading 4 UAC/10s, 75 power each so minimum of 350 engine rating and firing all 4 at once without a 10 second cool down causes your re-fire interval to go up by 5 second every time you fire. You could even lore justify it but saying the power draw would be too great to power the ammunition hoists so the motors would slow down or something. Same goes for firing 8 medium Lasers, 40 power requirement each so minimum 320 engine rating and if fire them all at once and your stuck not firing them again for 15 seconds. This sort of system would force people to rethink their build pretty dramatically so that mixed builds would be most effective, but wouldn't be hard to understand. I mean in a panic you could still hold the triggers down and your weapons would fire as fast as the could but your intervals between shots would just start getting longer and longer.

The problem with tying power draw to heat and a certain damage threshold is that there is no way it can be fair across all weights of mechs. You just can't put a relatively low damage hard limit on how many weapons you fire on mechs like the Direwolf which are designed to use massive amounts of weapons and have a high damage output. There just would be no point to a mech designed to output 80 damage if it can only effectively fire 30 damage of it without running into massive heat issues.

#479 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:35 PM

View PostNavid A1, on 09 August 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:


Well, high alpha, no penalty vomits ARE a problem... no matter if they are still meta or not.
I'm eager to test this system before giving judgement. It has potential.

Dakka meta? Only dakka meta I know right now is in the MWOWC build atm...

honestly, the mauler, the dire, the blackwidow and the kodiak made good use of ballistics... before them ballistics (ACs) were basically extinct.

You need big hulking assaults for a dakka meta... and zerg rushes in those are a bit more challenging... besides, 12 100 ton assault mechs should crush anything that stands against them...

zerg rush problem is because of the map design. there is 1 main objective and the attackers know its exact place... THAT leads to zerg rush... not dakka meta!

I've been yelling this for more than a year now... FW map design is the main problem... current maps are SH*T. One BIG objective on a single location that everybody knows about.

PGI designed FW in a rush and did not think this through when designing maps. And they are too stubborn to change the maps (THE MAIN PROBLEM OF FW)... Let them play with buckets all they want.


Black Widow is nice and mobile. Yeah so on the tournament build ACs are dominant. On the live build, energy boats have been nerfed, AND "energy draw" is not gonna touch dakka builds. So what do you think is going to happen? Its pretty obvious that ACs are going to take over.

Any system that takes into account only damage does not have a lot of potential, when it doesn't consider that the damage is applied in different ways.

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 09 August 2016 - 05:26 PM, said:

what we Currently Know, and what i have Compiled is here,
(Power Draw, What We Know, How It Will Work!)


Its just ghost heat that ties all weapons together and gives you a heat penalty if you do more than 30 damage at once, that's all it is.

#480 AnTi90d

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:37 PM

View PostRazorfish, on 09 August 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

To be honest I would prefer the non-pin point approach that has been suggested several times. Your biggest attack hits the location you where aiming at and the rest of the attacks scatter to other hit locations randomly (so you could hit the same location with more than one). This is more like table top and I would be all for it. But that’s not going to happen so…


Since PGI doesn't know how to work a cone of fire or weapon convergence into the game..

..they could always have all weapons behave like C-ERPPCs. All damage is spread damage; no damage ever pinpoints.

I think they'd lose fewer customers with that feature than where they seem to be headed.





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