776 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

except it's still not because you can turn your mech as a 3D object and spread damage, it's not a stationary 2D object. You fire your laser at my front, I turn damage is spread across a 3D item. End of story.

A.) A 3D image is a combination of three planes. That's mathematical fact. If you get the silhouette ideal on each plane, the rest will follow.

B.) It's not the end of story, because you cannot rotate fast enough to spread damage from the most potent builds in the game.

[Tristan Winter]

FupDup, on 06 October 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

It's only made worse by the fact that PGI hasn't lived up to their promise of buffing the mechs that got negatively affected by the rescale (i.e. made very large).

All balancing has stopped while Paul analyzes the data from the Public test session that involves 5-10 people playing about 20 matches over a period of 100 days.

Thank you for your patience.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 06 October 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

A.) A 3D image is a combination of three planes. That's mathematical fact. If you get the silhouette ideal on each plane, the rest will follow.

B.) It's not the end of story, because you cannot rotate fast enough to spread damage from the most potent builds in the game.

still missing the point.

All this conversation is based on everyone acting like the FRONTAL PLANE is the only one ever shot or taking damage, and that depth, etc, doesn't matter, which, to be succinct, is abject ********.

[Deathlike]

More often than not, every shot made by your opponents is usually with their front profile aimed at you, especially if they have torso weapons. This is the profile you will be aiming at least 50% of the time.

The only time you want to show off a side torso or arm is when you're cooling down, have a "dead side" available, or trying to spread the damage to multiple sections instead of it being concentrated in any particular area.

I feel like basic concepts of a FPS are being selectively ignored or became Lostech™.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

still missing the point.

All this conversation is based on everyone acting like the FRONTAL PLANE is the only one ever shot or taking damage, and that depth, etc, doesn't matter, which, to be succinct, is abject ********.

That's the thing... the frontal plane IS the most important more often than not.

There's a reason why comp players take little to no armor in the back for most of their builds. Unless they are frequently caught in the situation where their back armor is compromised, you only put as much armor there as you are confident in your ability to fend off/prevent back attacks.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 06 October 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

That's the thing... the frontal plane IS the most important more often than not.

There's a reason why comp players take little to no armor in the back for most of their builds. Unless they are frequently caught in the situation where their back armor is compromised, you only put as much armor there as you are confident in your ability to fend off/prevent back attacks.

"more often than not" is NOT the same as being 2D. Otherwise those long mechs wouldn't have their own share of issues, and no one would comment about how easy it is to hit the CT from the side, etc.

[Wolf Ender]

Deathlike, on 06 October 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

More often than not, every shot made by your opponents is usually with their front profile aimed at you, especially if they have torso weapons. This is the profile you will be aiming at least 50% of the time.

I disagree with this 50% idea... no way man. I'm not going to pull magical numbers out of my *** like some people try to do, but it's nowhere near 50%. People are always flanking to the side, running away, backing off while turning behind cover, or simply torso twisting rapidly to try to spread damage. A full front profile is nowhere near as prevalent as you're characterizing it. I shoot side profile just as much.

Deathlike, on 06 October 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

The only time you want to show off a side torso or arm is when you're cooling down, have a "dead side" available, or trying to spread the damage to multiple sections instead of it being concentrated in any particular area.

The only time you want to show your side torso is EVERY TIME you're not actively firing. Which is the majority of the time. Unless you're running machine guns I see most people running builds that focus on a high damage alpha followed by guarding while cooling off until you can alpha again. Maybe some people don't like that because its too meta but that's the way it makes the most sense to play in this game.

I don't know who you play against, but the people I see in my matches aren't stupidly just sitting there facing straight at me, taking shots to their CT, while they wait for their mech to cool off.

[Bishop Steiner]

though more intriguing is why the f*** was I necro'd back into this dumbazz conversation?

Mofo gotta be bored as sh*t to have to dig that crap up. *smh*

[Lightfoot]

Should be some size guidelines for Mech Class just like there is for armor, agility, speed. Heavies are not taller than Assaults. Assaults have larger space for larger weapons and this is ignored.

One quarter of the Shadow Cat's weight is in it's right arm and it can't carry much. So some problems if you just say gross weight equals volume.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wolf Ender, on 06 October 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

I disagree with this 50% idea... no way man. I'm not going to pull magical numbers out of my *** like some people try to do, but it's nowhere near 50%. People are always flanking to the side, running away, backing off while turning behind cover, or simply torso twisting rapidly to try to spread damage. A full front profile is nowhere near as prevalent as you're characterizing it. I shoot side profile just as much.



The only time you want to show your side torso is EVERY TIME you're not actively firing. Which is the majority of the time. Unless you're running machine guns I see most people running builds that focus on a high damage alpha followed by guarding while cooling off until you can alpha again. Maybe some people don't like that because its too meta but that's the way it makes the most sense to play in this game.

I don't know who you play against, but the people I see in my matches aren't stupidly just sitting there facing straight at me, taking shots to their CT, while they wait for their mech to cool off.

not too mention, most of the time you are getting shot at is usually NOT when you are wanting to present ANY profile.

Or maybe I'm the only MFer around here who actually flanks and backstabs people?

It's nice to know Comp Matches are apparently fought in the Napoleonic Style, where both teams just stand 100 paces apart and blast at each other. I thought that kind of went away with the toaster pastry thing. My bad, I guess.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

"more often than not" is NOT the same as being 2D. Otherwise those long mechs wouldn't have their own share of issues, and no one would comment about how easy it is to hit the CT from the side, etc.

As far PPFLD is concerned... at the time of impact, whatever "2D state" the mech is in, is what gets hit. Outside of missiles (and arty+airstrikes), you don't worry about any sort of AOE component (hitting multiple sections) of the mech.

Wolf Ender, on 06 October 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

I disagree with this 50% idea... no way man. I'm not going to pull magical numbers out of my *** like some people try to do, but it's nowhere near 50%. People are always flanking to the side, running away, backing off while turning behind cover, or simply torso twisting rapidly to try to spread damage. A full front profile is nowhere near as prevalent as you're characterizing it. I shoot side profile just as much.

Everyone's always trying to attack from a different location. That's normal. The thing is, most combat around here still happens like that. I suggest you really record your games... because you will find that most engagements will still end up being a frontal fight... even if the initial engagement is a flank.

Quote

The only time you want to show your side torso is EVERY TIME you're not actively firing. Which is the majority of the time. Unless you're running machine guns I see most people running builds that focus on a high damage alpha followed by guarding while cooling off until you can alpha again. Maybe some people don't like that because its too meta but that's the way it makes the most sense to play in this game.

I'm just talking about dealing damage. There's still too many people that stare despite having dealt their payload.

Quote

I don't know who you play against, but the people I see in my matches aren't stupidly just sitting there facing straight at me, taking shots to their CT, while they wait for their mech to cool off.

I see enough of both, but it is what it is.

[Rock Roller]

MerryIguana, on 06 October 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Its only been like 5 months jeez. Cut them some slack.

Out of all of the mechs I have its seems like several are more screwed up than others.
Phoenix Hawk is freekin HUGE. Firestarter is big and unbuffed structure wise and a wet tissue armored mess. The Grasshopper needs its own zip code.

Most of my other units don't seem to far off. I do think that mechs should be balanced all as per the actual scales. Just as I also think that sometimes designers need to take a licence to adjust for the "feel" of a unit. This should be no more than a 10% move up or down.

My main issue with the whole process really comes from the quirk system and the shoddy review of it. In the current system quirks are a necessary evil. That being said the half-assed way they are reviewed and kept up to date is a shame. Quite a few leader board results are very interesting to read. Players concerns on certain units matched up to actual results quite well.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 06 October 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

As far PPFLD is concerned... at the time of impact, whatever "2D state" the mech is in, is what gets hit. Outside of missiles (and arty+airstrikes), you don't worry about any sort of AOE component (hitting multiple sections) of the mech.

exactly. Which means that side profile matters. too. Because hot damn not everyone is standing plumb in front.

. Buddha on a Blowtorch. It's mind boggling that this is a thing even.

Deathlike, on 06 October 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

I see enough of both, but it is what it is.

and yet you spent the last how many pages arguing vehemently that ONLY the front profile matters?

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

exactly. Which means that side profile matters. too. Because hot damn not everyone is standing plumb in front.

. Buddha on a Blowtorch. It's mind boggling that this is a thing even.

and yet you spent the last how many pages arguing vehemently that ONLY the front profile matters?

Shooting at the side profile is still, effectively, a "2D" target for mechanical aiming (e.g. point and shoot) purposes. It's just a different cutout than the frontal one.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 06 October 2016 - 06:56 PM, said:

Shooting at the side profile is still, effectively, a "2D" target for mechanical aiming (e.g. point and shoot) purposes. It's just a different cutout than the frontal one.

And you still miss the goddamn point. ****.

I NEVER DENIED THAT. MY WHOLE POINT FROM MY FIRST DAMN POST WAS THAT THERE IS MORE TO MECHS THAN THEIR FRONTAL PROFILE.

Do you need me to break that into even smaller words?

Seriously. I don't even play this damn game anymore, haven't been on this damn thread since ******* JUNE, and you people still gotta keep pulling me in. AND still need me to color with crayons so you get the point.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 October 2016 - 07:04 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

still missing the point.

All this conversation is based on everyone acting like the FRONTAL PLANE is the only one ever shot or taking damage, and that depth, etc, doesn't matter, which, to be succinct, is abject ********.

Nobody ever said frontal plane was all there is, though. That's your own machination. Everybody talking about profiles has been talking about both front and side since the beginning. Remember our last argument over this? I specifically called out front and sides and you still accused me of only talking about the front, which is ridiculous. Of course the sides matter.

If front and side are good, the 'Mech will be good from any angle that really makes a difference because of the reason I stated...until LRMs get good, then we'll have to worry about the top, too, though you can't physically change that independently of the other two planes.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 06 October 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

Nobody ever said frontal plane was all there is, though. That's your own machination. Everybody talking about profiles has been talking about both front and side since the beginning. Remember our last argument over this? I specifically called out front and sides and you still accused me of only talking about the front, which is ridiculous. Of course the sides matter.

If front and side are good, the 'Mech will be good from any angle that really makes a difference because of the reason I stated...until LRMs get good, then we'll have to worry about the top, too, though you can't physically change that independently of the other two planes.

yeah, actually almost all the initial bickering was entirely over frontal profile.

But again, you might notice, that until someone decided to necro me into this thread.. I hadn't commented on it in 4 months. There is a reason. I don't give a **** about this thread so please stop ******* quoting me. It's annoying as ****.

Seriously. Argue amongst yourselves all you want, but kindly leave me the hell out of it.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

yeah, actually almost all the initial bickering was entirely over frontal profile.

But again, you might notice, that until someone decided to necro me into this thread.. I hadn't commented on it in 4 months. There is a reason. I don't give a **** about this thread so please stop ******* quoting me. It's annoying as ****.

Seriously. Argue amongst yourselves all you want, but kindly leave me the hell out of it.

Almost none of the initial bickering was over frontal profile, it was about how certain angles have more priority. You spun that as us saying only the front matters, which is a false narrative. Most of the people arguing with you failed to notice that they got suckered into a debate about something they themselves don't necessarily believe in (but I didn't, which is why our previous discourse was...colorful...because you utterly refused acknowledge that).

But I mean, sure, I'll leave you alone now, but I was only replying to the statement you made today. You could have also just let it be, the burden isn't solely on us for your discomfort.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 06 October 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

But I mean, sure, I'll leave you alone now, but I was only replying to the statement you made today. You could have also just let it be, the burden isn't solely on us for your discomfort.

It does, after all, take two to tango...

[mogs01gt]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

except it's still not because you can turn your mech as a 3D object and spread damage, it's not a stationary 2D object. You fire your laser at my front, I turn damage is spread across a 3D item. End of story.
The game is not played with 2 sets of stationary targets facing each other the whole game. Depth, etc DOES matter.
you first.

Why are you on this stationary kick? That has nothing to do with volume and depth. Mechs are simply spinning/turning on a flat 2D plain. Each component that is getting hit is a flat piece of designated object code on the mech.

Edited by mogs01gt, 07 October 2016 - 05:40 AM.