82 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

So as we know, PGI is trying to update all the old maps, in addition to making some new maps (Polar Highlands, Grim Plexus)

• River City - Updated
  
• Caustic Valley - Updated
  
• Forest Colony - Updated
  
• Frozen City - Updated
  
• Viridian Bog - WIP (click this link to help with that)

It sounds like Terra Therma is next priority after Viridian Bog. That leaves:

• Tourmaline Desert
  
• Alpine Peaks
  
• Crimson Strait
  
• HPG Manifold
  
• Canyon Network
  
• Mining Collective

I expect that HPG Manifold, Canyon Network and Mining Collective will be the last 3 maps to get updated, because they appear to be the 3 most popular maps. However, there's a lot of mixed feelings about what PGI did with the 4 updated maps. Most of them got bigger, but River City, Forest Colony and Caustic Valley are really similar to the originals in terms of where the actual fighting is going on. Frozen City is the biggest change, and (in my opinion) the best update, because now fighting is going on everywhere on a much bigger map.

So my question is: what do you want PGI to do with HPG Manifold, Crimson Strait and Terra Therma? Just add some dropships and call it a day?

HPG Manifold is one of the most popular maps in MWO. Probably one of my least favourite maps, but there you go. I'm not sure how to improve it. Crimson Strait is very popular but extremely predictable. Another one of my least favourite maps. Terra Therma is both unpopular and predictable. I've no idea how to fix that map either, without moving the big volcano to a corner of the map, so it doesn't dominate gameplay.

Thoughts?

[Mystere]

I say leave them alone. I'd rather get new -- and much bigger -- maps.

[SirSlaughter]

Terra Therma uh? We need a map full of lava instead of normal terrain

[TLBFestus]

First......keep the original maps in rotation. There should be enough changes in them that they will play differently from the originals.


HPG.

I would remove the central "Mount", leveling the interior and replace it with more structures that allow some cover as you maneuver. That or make 2 similar smaller high points that each team can access. They could keep some form of tunnel or basement area to allow mechs to attempt an underground flanking move.

I'd lower at least two of the outside walls to allow access to all mechs and open the outer areas to use on a regular basis.

If I thought PGI was capable I'd put the first MOVING BARRIER in a map. Something like a huge conveyor that transports large containers from one part of the facility to the other, or a supply train that periodically moves across the central area. Perhaps dropships that drop off and pick up containers. However since PGI can't seem to implement collision damage, it's a long-shot

Containers or cars could be destructible if they want, but regardless they would afford some well timed movement for each team to try to avoid enemy fire.

Edited by TLBFestus, 25 June 2016 - 08:23 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

SirSlaughter, on 25 June 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

Terra Therma uh? We need a map full of lava instead of normal terrain

That's actually a very cool idea. Most of Terra Therma is just volcanic hills and mountains, but we have that on other maps too.

It would be unusual and interesting to separate areas with actual lakes of lava. Really dangerous to move across without jump jets, because your mech will overheat and die. Very nice idea. Of course, you would need to be strategic about placing lava lakes, because you don't want every match to be a sniping war on a hot map where everyone overheats all the time.

Still though. Interesting idea.

TLBFestus, on 25 June 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

HPG.
I would remove the central "Mount", leveling the interior and replace it with more structures that allow some cover as you maneuver. That or make 2 similar smaller high points that each team can access. They could keep some form of tunnel or basement area to allow mechs to attempt an underground flanking move.
I'd lower at least two of the outside walls to allow access to all mechs and open the outer areas to use on a regular basis.

I agree that they should lower walls and open the map up more. Right now, the whole map is like a medieval keep with inner and outer walls. Far too restrictive. Multiple structures would be nice. I wouldn't want a repeat of the two plateaus of Viridian Bog though.

TLBFestus, on 25 June 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

If I thought PGI was capable I'd put the first MOVING BARRIER in a map. Something like a huge conveyor that transports large containers from one part of the facility to the other, or a supply train that periodically moves across the central area. Perhaps dropships that drop off and pick up containers. However since PGI can't seem to implement collision damage, it's a long-shot
Containers or cars could be destructible if they want, but regardless they would afford some well timed movement for each team to try to avoid enemy fire.

Yeah, I don't think they know how to do that. But they could maybe do other things, such as heat and radiation (ECM effect) from the generators inside the HPG structures. Right now, it's kind of like in Spiderman 2, when everyone's standing inside Dr. Octopus' living room, watching a fusion reactor that magically creates no heat or radiation. That's not cool.

It would be more fun if the basement had some kind of disrupting ability, and if all the walls were so hot in the basement that heat vision became useless.

[Kanil]

Considering what they did to Frozen City, I hope they leave Crimson Strait alone.

[Mavairo]

FFS don't touch Crimson Straight, HPG, Canyon, Mining collective OR tourmaline.

The last thing we need is more Derp Open maps for people to just politely exchange gunfire at max range at.

[Yellonet]

An improvement for HPG would to make it larger so it can have two "hills" with good defensive positions between them, plus basements with a tunnel between the bases. Also make ramps up to the "ring" so we can weed out the Shadowcats that always jump up there to snipe.

[Battlemaster56]

I'm really glad they working on Terra Therma it's one my favorite maps but I want them to remove central mountain atleast and make crossing lava a real hazard maybe damage your legs and heat your up quickly, if they do keep the central mountain( by Vader's hand please don't) make the thing erupt killing anything within it after 5 mins have passed so it forces players to fight at a differnet area.
HPG not much just make the map bigger and with more options to go around to flank the opponents
Tourmline I want it a huge open map with lots of scrap and all that to be use as cover so no one fight at the central point make battles more interesting.

[Malleus011]

HPG Manifold: In Battletech Canon, HPGs are extremely valuable installations which were *never* damaged or destroyed. You might fight near one, or even for possession of one (though Comstar owns them all) but risking damage to the facility itself was avoided. PGI has given us a map where we use the HPG transmitter as hard cover. (sigh)

Leaving that annoyance aside for the moment ... HPG as currently built has the same problems as most of the PGI maps. Spawn at the edges, fight in the middle, nearly every map is the same (general) fight. Very few actions take place outside of the same damned space, which takes a big map and makes it boring fast, because it never gets used.

HPG is one of the *better* executions of their usual map style, but by now it's pretty danged tired.

If I got the chance to direct the rebuild of the map, I'd make several big changes.

• Make the map larger; effectively circularizing the current map layout.
  
• Lose the major central 'mountain' feature entirely.
  
• Lower the 'arena' walls; in some areas, to mech height, in others, twice; but make the map more attractive for JJ 'mechs due to variable available heights.
  
• Along with the lowered 'walls', break the facility into seven or more 'rings' smaller than the current 'arena'. This would create multiple small battlespaces - and would allow the actual HPG to be placed out of the combat area, letting us fight over the facility without shooting it up.
  
• Make a large starport along one entire side, with landing pads, hangars, and several 'mech bays. It always bugged me to have a remote HPG station with no obvious way in or out.
  
• Add a lot of destructable terrain. It would be cool to have certain structures which can be leveled by gunfire or 'mech contact - like the little hab buildings, or cargo containers, or even greenhouses or clear personnel tubes.
  
• Randomize drop locations - all three dropships come in together, but there are three possible landing sites they might choose, depending on whether the map spawned A, B, or C variant (otherwise identical).
  
• Only one side comes in on dropships. It's strange for both sides to fly into the same battlefield. The non-flying side should start at the starport, in 'mech bays. Dropships should land on the moonscape side (roughly opposite the starport).
  
• Redesign the entire facility to make sense on a human scale, and then let the 'mechs fight. Right now it feels like our 'mechs are infantrymen. Fix that.
  
• Add a moving automated monorail that ravels between facilities. Double decker people-movers than can cover 'mechs - until it moves on. Getting hit by the monorail should be unpleasant, so don't stand in front of it.
  
• Love the custom sound for HPG. Keep that!

Crimson Straits: One of my very favorite maps, because it has more than one channel for combat, meaning matches *sometimes* take place outside of the usual spot. Great visuals, really feels like part of a larger city. Beautiful design, pretty good terrain.

If I got the chance to direct the rebuild of the map, I'd make several big changes.

• Make the city make sense as a settlement. Residental blocks, commercial skyscrapers, then intermodal terminal; don't just blend them all together. (People don't like to live next to stinky refineries and noisy ports) Try to make sure that streets and rails are designed to serve the city, not the 'mech combat. We'll find routes to the action.
  
• Make the whole map feel human scaled, and then add 'mechs. This is one of the better maps for feeling 'big' but it still doesn't always sell the 'mech's sheer size.
  
• Add moving trains to the monorail, as outlined in HPG above (look, a re-use!)
  
• Make sure the harbor is deep enough for the ships to actually sail in.
  
• Loaded ships also sit deeper in the water.
  
• More graduated seafloor; not just a ramp and then pool table flat bottom.
  
• Give us MUCH more city to fight in, and less gigantic mountain pushing us into two funnels. Gigantic mountains and high passes are great, but nudge them more towards the flanks.
  
• Destructable cars would be an easy add.
  
• A few destructable buildings would be great. Even if it's only the tanks in the chemical yard, or the loading cranes, or something. Having EVERYTHING stop your gunfire breaks immersion.
  
• Having variable spawn locations and only one side dropping in as outlined above on HPG.
  
• This feels like a city on a tropical island with a red sea - great art feel. Keep that!

Terra Therma: My most hated map, because it's the most boring map. I don't mind hot, I can live with lava damage, but it's either jam the doors or ring around the volcano, every time. The handful of matches I played that *didn't* devolve into that were fun, but it's a dull, dark, hot map with few redeeming qualities.

Why the hell would anyone suspend a giant platform over an active caldera? Why would anyone fight in such a volcanically active region? A little bit of heat venting I can see - scrambles sensors but the rest - I can't even ... nevermind.

If I got the chance to direct the rebuild of the map, I'd make MAJOR changes.

• No more Mount Doom! Break Mount Doom into three volcanoes and spread them around the map, so you've got a reason for the big lava flows and the no-go areas. But get rid of the huge central feature!
  
• Sensor scrambling - this is a seismically active and signal disruptive area. Seismic sensors should sometimes show ghosts. Sensor ranges might be reduced below 800m. This is a perfect Infowar Map. Add some!
  
• This map doesn't feel inhabited by human beings at all. Almost everything is mech scale and almost nothing is human scale. The world should be human scale, and we feel like infantrymen when it's mech scale. Address this with human-sized structures, truck-sized bridges, and habitat and mining buildings.
  
• What the heck are we fighting over? A geothermal generating facility? (Don't you usually put those in stable areas?) Mining? Uhh ... lava ... harvesting? THINK about what facilities are here, why, and how the engineers are coping with the environment.
  
• Without Mount Doom, the biggest issue with the map is scouting, just like Polar Highlands. Make sure we can see.

[9thDeathscream]

NOTHING!!!!

Variety is good!

[Moldur]

What will removing the most popular maps do besides give less people the benefit of playing the map they want? The way you, me, or any other single person likes maps isn't objectively better than the way other people like maps, and if more people like their maps a way that someone else doesn't, tough luck.

It's like saying, "I want to make a map that less people like." Why? Why would anyone do that?! Is it better? Not if less people like it. Nothing makes a map good or bad except for how the people playing it feel about it.

[meteorol]

• HPG: Don't even think about touching it.

• Crimson: it's ok IMO, and a pretty large map to begin with. No need to waste resources on changing it.

• Terrible Therma: Simply delete it. It's beyond fixing. Easily the games worst map, and one of the worst maps i have ever seen in any game. Don't waste a single second on it. Take it out of rotation and be done with it.

[Alistair Winter]

Mavairo, on 25 June 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

FFS don't touch Crimson Straight, HPG, Canyon, Mining collective OR tourmaline.

The last thing we need is more Derp Open maps for people to just politely exchange gunfire at max range at.

In your opinion, which of the 14 existing maps result in people politely exchanging gunfire at max range for the majority of the match? Feel free to differentiate between game modes, as some maps play out in different ways depending on game mode.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 25 June 2016 - 09:12 AM.

[cazidin]

Nothing. I hope PGI doesn't touch them.

[The Mech behind you]

Bog gets a revamp? Aww maaan, just when I started to like the map

I like most of the maps on OPs list as they are. Maybe revamp Alpine? Maybe put more hills on the map just to make it different compared with the rather flat Polar Highlands map. I could like that.

[N0ni]

If it's not broken, don't touch it.

We don't need ALL the maps to be nature hikes just to get to the same spots we'd usually brawl at (and leave the majority of the map untouched).

Knowing PGI though they'll shove it down our throats whether we like the change or not and only a massive saltstorm will reverse it or at least make it playable. It helps to actually play the game to understand how the changes you're about to make will affect gameplay.

[Alistair Winter]

N0ni, on 25 June 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

If it's not broken, don't touch it.
We don't need ALL the maps to be nature hikes just to get to the same spots we'd usually brawl at (and leave the majority of the map untouched).
Knowing PGI though they'll shove it down our throats whether we like the change or not and only a massive saltstorm will reverse it or at least make it playable. It helps to actually play the game to understand how the changes you're about to make will affect gameplay.

I sincerely hope that they keep making the QP maps bigger and then Solaris maps will be more like arena matches where almost you instantly begin shooting. This way, the people who prefer more maneuvers and big maps with many options will be happy with QP. And the "I don't want a walking simulator" crowd will be happy with Solaris, where they can start shooting at 00:20 and have the match decided at 01:57.

[Deathlike]

Blow up Mordor.

That is all.

[Cy Mitchell]

IMO those last 6 maps should not be touched and work should start on adding a couple totally new maps to the rotation.