413 replies to this topic

[dwwolf]

Cool story bro!
The fact that you find it hilarious means that it must have been so unexpected that you found it noteworthy.

Almost like you didnt expect to get a significant hit at all.

[El Bandito]

davoodoo, on 01 August 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

At what range??

Cause lb20x with apparently only 10cm higher spread cant hit ct of hbk4g with all pellets at 200m.

I shot at a King Crab using LBX20 underneath HPG. He was within 200 meters and my LBX hit his CT, as well as both STs. The spread of LBX is horribly bad.

[Antares102]

Razorfish, on 01 August 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

If it was up to me I would double pellet damage. But I’m not in charge... Bummer.

Double damage will be too much. I started of this discussion with factor of 1.1 and 1.2.
Probably going up to 1.5 but not 2.
Double damage might only be ok if they spread like crazy like a 45° spread right from the muzzle.

Ryllen Kriel, on 02 August 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

I'm sure this will anger a lot of people but I see no problem with the Inner Sphere LB X. I even killed a guy at 600 meters a short time ago, which was hilarious.

"I am doing fine with them therefore they must be OK"-argument again.
If you killed somebody at 600m with a LBX the target was so badly damaged that you would have killed it with any other weapon as well.

Edited by Antares102, 02 August 2016 - 06:05 AM.

[dwwolf]

TT hit table means roughly 60% of pellets would hit with the caveat that hitting at all would be easier. And thats at all ranges. Which is not how the lbx functions currently.


Could we simulate a proximity fused round by giving about half of the pellets a much tighter spread ( say about half of current LBX spread value ).

[Gattsus]

I would prefer a fire rate increase instead of bullet damage.

[Antares102]

Gattsus, on 02 August 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

I would prefer a fire rate increase instead of bullet damage.

Yes that could also work. When I made the initial post I just thought more damage was the right way to go.

[Koniving]

Antares102, on 30 July 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

.. as the title says.

Currently I see no reason to take any LBX weapon over normal AC for IS and UAC for Clan unless heavy quirking is involved e.g. Legendkiller.
So why not increase the LBX pellet damage to something like 1.1 or even 1.2 (or even higher till it is worthwile taking)
IS SRMs also have 2.15 per missile so why not apply the damage logic to LBX?
Might make LBX actually usefull.

I have a somewhat simple suggestion that may not increase damage for the but will do wonders for all LBX weapons as a whole.

Change the projectile mechanic.

The large issue is that pgi said "hurr-durr it scatters damage like a shotgun, let's make it a shotty and I can go double shotty some zombie Centurions!"

This of course means that there was some substantial lack of reading. They don't fire pellets/slugs, they fire standard autocannons rounds and cluster-shot (canister rounds that detonate within range of the target and THEN you have the shotty effect of explosive material!!). Hence their superior range to autocannons in EVERY instance of Battletech LBX.

Thus, what we need is a single projectile that detonate and splatters within somewhere between 30 and 60 meters of the intended target range.

In example if my cross hair is converged at 270 meters, then regardless of my target being there or not, at 210-240 meters the canister should detonate and burst into several secondary munitions.

[Antares102]

Koniving, on 02 August 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

I have a somewhat simple suggestion that may not increase damage for the but will do wonders for all LBX weapons as a whole.

Change the projectile mechanic.

The large issue is that pgi said "hurr-durr it scatters damage like a shotgun, let's make it a shotty and I can go double shotty some zombie Centurions!"

This of course means that there was some substantial lack of reading. They don't fire pellets/slugs, they fire standard autocannons rounds and cluster-shot (canister rounds that detonate within range of the target and THEN you have the shotty effect of explosive material!!). Hence their superior range to autocannons in EVERY instance of Battletech LBX.

Thus, what we need is a single projectile that detonate and splatters within somewhere between 30 and 60 meters of the intended target range.

In example if my cross hair is converged at 270 meters, then regardless of my target being there or not, at 210-240 meters the canister should detonate and burst into several secondary munitions.

Great idea really, i like it, BUT:

• It contradicts lore which says LBX is a mech size shot gun (lore fanatics will kill you)
  
• It is way too complicated to implement compared to just increase the damage in a XML file.

[pyrocomp]

Viktor Drake, on 01 August 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

The second thing I mention is that the damage is unreliable. Sometimes, as I mentioned mechs you hit just seem to die randomly for no reason as I mention I think this is due to a series of lucky crits happening however you can't count on that happening.

Ammo explosion. Can down a fresh assault via a single hit to the leg (is said assault shaved armor for more ammo and had XL for same MaxGunsCram_Enable=1). I downed such KGC once with twin Gauss shot, but that can be done with virtually any weapon and tell more about loadouts than about weapons.

Edited by pyrocomp, 02 August 2016 - 07:06 AM.

[El Bandito]

Koniving, on 02 August 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

I have a somewhat simple suggestion that may not increase damage for the but will do wonders for all LBX weapons as a whole.

Change the projectile mechanic.

The large issue is that pgi said "hurr-durr it scatters damage like a shotgun, let's make it a shotty and I can go double shotty some zombie Centurions!"

This of course means that there was some substantial lack of reading. They don't fire pellets/slugs, they fire standard autocannons rounds and cluster-shot (canister rounds that detonate within range of the target and THEN you have the shotty effect of explosive material!!). Hence their superior range to autocannons in EVERY instance of Battletech LBX.

Thus, what we need is a single projectile that detonate and splatters within somewhere between 30 and 60 meters of the intended target range.

In example if my cross hair is converged at 270 meters, then regardless of my target being there or not, at 210-240 meters the canister should detonate and burst into several secondary munitions.

We do not want flat damage increase because we want the shotty so bad. We want flat damage increase because it is simple enough change even for PGI to do.

[Koniving]

Antares102, on 02 August 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

Great idea really, i like it, BUT:

• It contradicts lore which says LBX is a mech size shot gun (lore fanatics will kill you)
  
• It is way too complicated to implement compared to just increase the damage in a XML file.

It still effectively is. But read into what "Cluster-shot" is within Battletech, and then what Canister rounds are (real life). They are the same thing.

Quote

Originally developed as part of the CROATOAN project in 2595 by Lubalin Ballistics for the Terran Hegemony, the LB-X 10 Autocannon was a derivative of the standard and relatively primitive Autocannon/10 design used for centuries by every military in the Inner Sphere. Taking advantage of advanced materials such as Endo Steel, the company was able to reduce the weight of the weapon for only a slight increase in bulk and mated it with the advanced Mercury-VII targeting system to boost its effective range. The most notable feature of the weapon was its ability to fire both standard HEAP rounds and a specialized anti-'Mech cluster round.[5][6]

The cluster round fragments in flight, peppering the target with hundreds of explosive submunitions. The cannon is able to punch through an opponent's armor with standard rounds, and then fire cluster rounds to increase the chance of scoring a critical hit on a target's internal systems. The LB-X's flak-like 'shotgun' effect also makes it an effective and deadly weapon against AeroSpace Fighters, VTOLs and Infantry.[5][6][7]

"Fires a shell that fragments in flight."
"Fires a canister that detonate into secondary munitions."
Different words, roughly the same meaning. Cannisters are just flashier.

And true, it is too complicated to expect PGI to create what is effectively an exploding grenade that launches secondary bullets, fired like a bullet. Already coded in the cry-engine.

<.< Which developers have been making since the Atari days.

Screw it, faster firing rate because PGI.

Edited by Koniving, 02 August 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[Gattsus]

Just increase fire rate.

[Antares102]

Gattsus, on 02 August 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

Just increase fire rate.

Well if its fireing rate increase in the end I would be happy too,
and probably a lot of others as well.
As long as LBX are changed to something above garbage level.

On a side note:
Do you guys think we can lure in an answer form Paul if we agree to buy a mech pack?

Edited by Antares102, 02 August 2016 - 07:43 AM.

[Variant1]

instead of increasing dmg. Why not give it 100% crit chance and 2 dmg per pellet to internal components?

[Blind Baku]

Antares102, on 02 August 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

Well if its fireing rate increase in the end I would be happy too,
and probably a lot of others as well.
As long as LBX are changed to something above garbage level.

On a side note:
Do you guys think we can lure in an answer form Paul if we agree to buy a mech pack?

As suggested, some mechs are murder with the LBX (Legend Killer, even the CN9 at times). Yes, again invoking the "Quirked Mech" and the "I do well, therefore", but why not just pattern it off of those (-5 to -10% spread, +15 to +25% cooldown) and then tone down the quirks on those mechs so they keep pace as slightly better LBX mechs

Rifleman IIC? Nastolgia invoked, wallet opened...

Edited by Blind Baku, 02 August 2016 - 08:22 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Koniving, on 02 August 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

It still effectively is. But read into what &quot;Cluster-shot&quot; is within Battletech, and then what Canister rounds are (real life). They are the same thing.


&quot;Fires a shell that fragments in flight.&quot;
&quot;Fires a canister that detonate into secondary munitions.&quot;
Different words, roughly the same meaning. Cannisters are just flashier.

And true, it is too complicated to expect PGI to create what is effectively an exploding grenade that launches secondary bullets, fired like a bullet. Already coded in the cry-engine.

&lt;.&lt; Which developers have been making since the Atari days.

Screw it, faster firing rate because PGI.

For the record, some shotgun shells contain all of the shot inside the wad, so the don't technically release the submunitions until after they exit the barrel. The effect would still be similar to what we already have in the game.

The descriptions you cite do nothing to preclude this mode of operation.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Gattsus, on 02 August 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

Just increase fire rate.

Didnt really work for the Centurion or Enforcer with the big LBX 10 quirks. I mean, it is amusing to run around with essentially an auto quick-fire shotgun, but in the end, it never really seemed to produce.

El Bandito, on 02 August 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

We do not want flat damage increase because we want the shotty so bad. We want flat damage increase because it is simple enough change even for PGI to do.

According to the responses I was getting, yeah people seem to want the shotty mechanic that bad...you know, for variety sake.

[Snowbluff]

People who are saying that LBX should do 20-50% more damage, you are ********. No one would ever use an AC/UAC.

[Koniving]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 August 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

For the record, some shotgun shells contain all of the shot inside the wad, so the don't technically release the submunitions until after they exit the barrel. The effect would still be similar to what we already have in the game.

The descriptions you cite do nothing to preclude this mode of operation.

But, is that option you speak of "viable" compared to the canister method, and likely to yield accuracy for hitting moving targets at the ranges LBXs are supposed to land fairly high 'pellet' counts at, without large waste?

This weapon is supposed to be accurate at longer ranges than standard autocannons. So, yeah. o.O; Welcoming the logic there. I've got the popcorn.

LBX 10: accurate to 540 meters without undo difficulty, with both Cluster-shot and standard ammunition.
Autocannon/10: accurate to 450 meters without undo difficulty, with standard ammunition.

[Blind Baku]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 August 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Didnt really work for the Centurion or Enforcer with the big LBX 10 quirks. I mean, it is amusing to run around with essentially an auto quick-fire shotgun, but in the end, it never really seemed to produce.

According to the responses I was getting, yeah people seem to want the shotty mechanic that bad...you know, for variety sake.

The ENF didn't get enough of a quirk. It still fires too slowly for having just one LBX to make up for the problems in the LBX (IMO, but I haven't used it in a long while and didn't have the cooldown mod back when, it is also stupendously squish for a brawler compared to other more quirked options). The RFL-LK and the CN9 have enough cool down to be fantastic, but the CN9 suffers from being a more flimsy mech... To turn the saying around "I am doing [Poor/Sub-optimal] with them therefore they must be [Poor/Sub-optimal]"

Again, I'm not saying the LBX doesn't need love, but at least for a potato like me the ~50% (+/- 5%) quirk, with at least a 10% reduced spread, is more than enough to be a monster and do very well, and may just be the love it would need to be closer to viable.

(to preempt the "Your other weapons do the work for your LK", I only put 2 MPLs on it... so I doubt that to be the case)