247 replies to this topic

[SlyJJ]

Mystere- streaming autocannons could be considered a disadvantage to IS counterparts because of pinpoint damage.... however n one uses clan acs and this disadvantage is overwhelmed by the ability to fire an extra volley with UACs, not to mention having significantly greater range.

Edited by SlyJJ, 18 September 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[InspectorG]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

Heres the problem with the whole pinpoint vs long burn/burst fire. The argument can go the other way as well. Really its just hypotheticals that come down to piloting skill and the enemy you're fighting (are they aware of you, taking evasive action, etc).

So, an IS pilot is just as likely to completely miss whatever hes aiming at as he is to get pinpoint damage. I would call burst fire vs single shot a preference. You're assuming a perfect shot each time. Likewise, when you get in a good shot, you still get 2 bursts of UAC effectively doubling your damage. In short, the burst fire of UAC's its not an equal counterweight to the overwhelming damage its capable of doing. The same can be said in regards to the longer burn times for lasers. Some may argue for, others against, but you're still doing significantly more damage at the end of the day. What you do with that damage is another discussion

No.

MWO favors PPFLD. Lazervomit had its time, but that is gone.

If the C-UACs are as strong as you say, comp players would be using the UAC20 a lot.

They dont. Know why? Why would they turn down such efficient 40 damage? Because it is hardly efficient.

Plus you are omitting the build in defense of burst fire(should the pilot be skilled enough to twist or seek cover)
Longer duration = more time in which you can take damage.

The whole reason jumpsniping was nerfed into the ground.

MWO favors hitting first, hitting hard, and hitting the same component with all your fire AND your lance-mate's fire.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Oh boy, another one of these threads.

-Streak Crows are inferior to just about every IS medium, Vindicators can kill the things if a clanner brings such a terrible loadout. 12DPS that spreads all over an entire enemy mech takes a long time to kill a mech when you could be doing more DPS than that can hitting precisely. Stormcrow legs are very easy to hit and die to 2 shots from an IS quad ASRM6 boat such as the Griffin or to brawlers such as the Centurion with AC20+3SRM4, or to laser brawlers such as the hunchback 4p. Really anything that can put 39 points of damage into a location twice breaks a Stormcrow down in 4 hits total. You shouldn't even worry about Streakcrows, worry about ones who bring actual Artemis improved SRM6s or small pulse laser boats which can actually aim and kill you.

-Firing multiple shells or having longer beam duration is bad in MWO because you spread the damage more, given two pilots with the same skill level, its just easier to hold a shorter duration beam or hit with a single projectile than hit with a long beam or hit with up to 4 projectiles. Enemies also have longer time to actively spread damage against clan weapons.

-Clan lasers have better range and damage but have longer durations and considerably more heat, their mechs also aren't usually quirked with considerable bonuses like many IS mechs get. For example, the Hunchback 4P is an IS medium laser boat with 15% cooldowns, 10% less heat, 25% less medium laser duration. This gives the Hunchback 4P a cold, high damage, very short duration, and rapid fire laser alpha at brawling ranges that should out do any clanner running a similar number of medium lasers in a mech of equal weight.

-Clan LRMs are lighter and have no min range, IS LRMs have less spread and fire in groups so they can go through AMS and are harder to spread. IS LRM boats also get excessive quirks to make them entirely outdo IS LRM boats. For example, the IS hunchback 4j vs the Clan Hunchback IIC-b. IS gets 35% cooldown on the LRM10s, and 10% more velocity and 10% less heat. The Awesome 8R, capable of bringing quad LRM15, gets 30% cooldown quirks on them, 15% less heat. 10% more velocity, and 20% less cooldown and 25% less duration on lasers it can use to back itself up at close range.

-IS pilots can use cover easily to conceal their movements towards the enemy and negate clan range advantages, making them superior in combat with more precise, cooler running, firepower combined with powerful structure quirks, which are further amplified when an IS mech brings a standard engine rather than an XL.

[RestosIII]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 08:26 PM, said:

Mystere- streaming autocannons could be considered a disadvantage to IS counterparts because of pinpoint damage.... however n one uses clan acs and this disadvantage is overwhelmed by the ability to fire an extra volley with UACs, not to mention having significantly greater range.

It doesn't matter if you can fire twice when, again, it has a chance to jam, and if the pilot is good at maneuvering/fast/Clan pilot isn't a great aim, it's still going to miss with a good deal of those shells or be spread across the entire mech. If I had a choice purely for min/maxing, I'd take IS AC/20's over C-UAC/20's any day, just because I can force all my shells to hit an enemy CT or leg.

[Davegt27]

yeah this thread solves nothing

for every point there is a counter point and the points and counter points don't even have to be true

[Y E O N N E]

Laser vomit has been over for the past 7 months or so. It effectively ended with the nerfing of IS energy quirks, and the arrival of the Warhammer and the Kodiak put the nail in the coffin.

[Idealsuspect]

To the OP



You, you're very good you !

Edited by Idealsuspect, 18 September 2016 - 08:33 PM.

[RestosIII]

Idealsuspect, on 18 September 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

To the OP



You, you're very good you !

Don't encourage him.

[InspectorG]

RestosIII, on 18 September 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

Don't encourage him.

C'mon what else is there to do for salt around here? PGI has been slacking lately.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 September 2016 - 08:22 PM, said:

On PTS they are.

It's just the lasers (CERMED+CERLL)... Clan dakka? /shrug

[Mcgral18]

Deathlike, on 18 September 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

It's just the lasers (CERMED+CERLL)... Clan dakka? /shrug

UAC40 isn't Terribad for the Kodiak


I even tried the UAC20*2...same jam time as the Quad Ten
I don't like that jam time, but RNGeesus loved me.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 18 September 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

It's just the lasers (CERMED+CERLL)... Clan dakka? /shrug

It's a combination of both. cERML and cERLL are independently strong already, but some 'Mechs can't boat them but can bring ballistics. The IS 'Mechs can't do this, because LL are to heavy, ML are too short-ranged, and their ballistics fire too damn slow.

[Vxheous]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 September 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

It's a combination of both. cERML and cERLL are independently strong already, but some 'Mechs can't boat them but can bring ballistics. The IS 'Mechs can't do this, because LL are to heavy, ML are too short-ranged, and their ballistics fire too damn slow.

The PTS is just a big pile of Sh*t, gets worse each iteration.

[Y E O N N E]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 18 September 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

The PTS is just a big pile of Sh*t, gets worse each iteration.

I look at it as a good thing that this gets exposed. Hopefully PGI will address it with equipment changes and not quirks this time.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 September 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

I look at it as a good thing that this gets exposed. Hopefully PGI will address it with equipment changes and not quirks this time.

With our balance overlord's track record?

[Mister Popo]

Lol post is dumb. Arguing with biased clanners about their bias is dumb. Quirks are not OP, since clanners QQ'd so much that PGI brought the nerf hammer down hard even though FW still heavily favored clans. Consequently, clanners have the edge and so their bias is showing. Organized comp units flock to clanners due to tech advantage translating to stomps and efficient wins. IS are relegated to defense because we lack the commanders to organize attacks. Face it, IS is the underdog and we'll continue being the underdog. Clanners aren't incredibly OP, but since the meta has been established and the meta favors clans then clan superiority will continue to be meta. Nothing will really solve that at this point except IS players quitting the game altogether and moving on to greener pastures.

[RestosIII]

Mister Popo, on 18 September 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

Lol post is dumb. Arguing with biased clanners about their bias is dumb. Quirks are not OP, since clanners QQ'd so much that PGI brought the nerf hammer down hard even though FW still heavily favored clans. Consequently, clanners have the edge and so their bias is showing. Organized comp units flock to clanners due to tech advantage translating to stomps and efficient wins. IS are relegated to defense because we lack the commanders to organize attacks. Face it, IS is the underdog and we'll continue being the underdog. Clanners aren't incredibly OP, but since the meta has been established and the meta favors clans then clan superiority will continue to be meta. Nothing will really solve that at this point except IS players quitting the game altogether and moving on to greener pastures.

Hello first post forum user that apparently knows the meta and balance between IS and Clans. Good to know you believe every single person here pointing out that Clans aren't overpowered are all in cahoots and are trying to dupe PGI so we can stay overpowered forever. Truly, you are a god among men to catch onto our scheme.

[Mister Popo]

Lol not every clanner, but enough to bring this game on it's last legs

[Vxheous]

Mister Popo, on 18 September 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

Lol not every clanner, but enough to bring this game on it's last legs

Clan/IS perceived imbalance is not the reason this game bleeds users. Most times when one side complains about the other, they don't actually look at it objectively. IS has it's pros/cons, strengths/weaknesses, and same with Clans. The players that actually play both sides and play both regularly figure this out and use that knowledge to their advantage with playstyle to minimize the cons and maximize the pros.

If one tech was OP over the other, you would not see comp teams playing comp games have mixed tech line-ups with their mechs. It would be straight 8vs8 IS mechs (or 12vs12) or 8vs8 clan mechs. The fact that most comp decks are usually mixed 50/50 or 60/40 40/60 depending on map shows how balanced the tech actually is nowadays.

If you look at FP in IS vs Clan games, if you add up the damage it takes to kill 48 IS mechs, it usually sits around 17K total, while it only takes ~15K damage to kill 48 clan mechs. Yes clan weapons do more damage and slightly longer range at the expense of heat and duration, but IS mechs will tend to spread that damage out over more components. In the same token, while IS mechs might not have the same reach with their weapons as clan, almost every FP map apart from parts of Boreal lead to fights in the 300m-500m range where clan extra range means nothing. IS shorter duration/shorter cooldown/lower heat weapons mean less exposure time to return fire while at the same time being more precise in picking off specific torsos (not to mention that apart from the Kodiak, Hellbringer and Hunchback, the other favored clan mechs can't really shield their CT's even with twisting since they jut out like a sore thumb).

If you just stand there and stare at your enemy, it doesn't matter which you play, you will die lots and you will die quickly.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 18 September 2016 - 09:48 PM.

[Mister Popo]

There isn't a single reason, but it sure isn't helping.