104 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

I shudder to think of how bad it will be and the rage that happens when P.G.I either can't or don't refund the old GXP spent on the old system.

You think people spend MC on converting xp-gxp and then they get no compensation..ouch, and game over.

It won't make the game any less stale or change the fact there are more important parts still incomplete or frankly broken to be worthless, FW, there is a 50% change it will be far worse than what we have now and a slender chance it will be better.

They just shouldn't bother..

Edited by Cathy, 25 September 2016 - 04:40 PM.

[Mole]

Cathy, on 25 September 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

I shudder to think of how bad it will be and the rage that happens when P.G.I either can't or don't refund the old GXP spent on the old system.

You think people spend MC on converting xp-gxp and then they get no compensation..ouch, and game over.

It won't make the game any less stale or change the fact there are more important parts still incomplete or frankly broken to be worthless, FW, there is a 50% change it will be far worse than what we have now and a slender chance it will be better.

They just shouldn't bother..

I lost what little faith I had in PGI's ability to code actual new content when I learned today that their excuse for LBX cannons being in the current state they are in was that they lost the one guy who knew how to code the weapons and they can't figure it out. I mean for ****'s sake, the guy didn't keep any notes? Backups? Didn't write down his process anywhere? And he was the ONLY guy who was a capable enough coder to know how to tweak the way a weapon behaves? And they lost him. And now they don't know how to do it anymore. There's a lostech joke to be had here. For the love of God, that was the most pathetic thing I've ever learned about PGI. Like Spiderman forgetting how to climb walls.

Edited by Mole, 25 September 2016 - 05:28 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Mole, on 25 September 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

I lost what little faith I had in PGI's ability to code actual new content when I learned today that their excuse for LBX cannons being in the current state they are in was that they lost the one guy who knew how to code the weapons and they can't figure it out. I mean for ****'s sake, the guy didn't keep any notes? Backups? Didn't write down his process anywhere? And he was the ONLY guy who was a capable enough coder to know how to tweak the way a weapon behaves? And they lost him. And now they don't know how to do it anymore. There's a lostech joke to be had here. For the love of God, that was the most pathetic thing I've ever learned about PGI. Like Spiderman forgetting how to climb walls.

Citation?

[Mole]

BLOOD WOLF, on 25 September 2016 - 07:37 PM, said:

Citation?

I'm not here to prove anything. If you want to refute my claim due to lack of citation and evidence then refute it and don't believe it. Won't change how I feel on the matter and your opinion is of no concern to me. The burden of proof may be on me but that doesn't mean proving it is worth my time.

Edited by Mole, 25 September 2016 - 07:44 PM.

[l3elthaz0r]

Mole, on 25 September 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

I lost what little faith I had in PGI's ability to code actual new content when I learned today that their excuse for LBX cannons being in the current state they are in was that they lost the one guy who knew how to code the weapons and they can't figure it out. I mean for ****'s sake, the guy didn't keep any notes? Backups? Didn't write down his process anywhere? And he was the ONLY guy who was a capable enough coder to know how to tweak the way a weapon behaves? And they lost him. And now they don't know how to do it anymore. There's a lostech joke to be had here. For the love of God, that was the most pathetic thing I've ever learned about PGI. Like Spiderman forgetting how to climb walls.

I'm not really up to date, but what is the current state of LBX?

[SQW]

Hunka Junk, on 24 September 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

My guess:

You will be forced to split a pile of skill points into the various weapon types. Putting points into a weapon type will have some minor quirk effect to buff the weapon (or, more cynically, the weapon will function crappier until you put points into it). You will not have enough points to max out every weapon line.

How would you you feel about such a rework?

Or, do you think something else is going to happen to the skill tree? If so, what?

Whatever it is, it'll be 9 months late and full of balance issues.

[BLOOD WOLF]

SQW, on 25 September 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Whatever it is, it'll be 9 months late and full of balance issues.

A bit of a stretch by no means of the imagination

It's not gonna be 9 months late. Will their be fixes or adjustments needed? maybe

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 25 September 2016 - 09:13 PM.

[Mole]

l3elthaz0r, on 25 September 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

I'm not really up to date, but what is the current state of LBX?

LBX cannons in lore are supposed to be able to switch between canister shot (pellets), and solid slug shot. The LBX cannons we have in this game cannot do that, and that feature has been requested a lot as it would make LBX cannons far more useful than they currently are where if you bring one you are forced to use only canister shot regardless of what range you are trying to engage at. There's also been a slew of other suggestions brought up by the community that would make the canister shot of the LBX cannons far more effective at range, such as the canister staying in one solid slug until it reaches a certain distance from its target and then it fractures into its pellet state (there is a technical term for that kind of shot but I don't remember what it is). At any rate, apparently PGI lost the guy who knew how to do weapons and have since then been unable to figure out how to change how LBX cannons work. Which tells me that they are operating without a decent coder. Which tells me that we will see no new content until they get a new coder, which they may never do.

[Peter2k]

I'd like to think that the new skill system goes a bit deeper and fleshes out roles for the mech classes

Making lights more useful at scouting (targeting 3 mechs at once, buff to tag range, being able to target 1 mech through ecm)

Mediums at hit and run

For instance

If it's just a buff to weapons and ED values then it ends up being a balance nightmare again
Except they keep the values low so it doesn't matter balance wise, but then ending up being kinda useless

Cathy, on 25 September 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

I shudder to think of how bad it will be and the rage that happens when P.G.I either can't or don't refund the old GXP spent on the old system.

You think people spend MC on converting xp-gxp and then they get no compensation

Well under credits in my profile I can see all I spent MC on including XP conversion, all the way back

I'd like to think it would be easy to refund all the converted XP since they keep track
And normal xp spent on mechs since they must keep track of leveling up mechs in a players inventory somehow

Only thing I'm worried about regarding lost xp is old mechs I deemed useless and sold

How those are treated

Mole, on 25 September 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

I'm not here to prove anything. If you want to refute my claim due to lack of citation and evidence then refute it and don't believe it. Won't change how I feel on the matter and your opinion is of no concern to me. The burden of proof may be on me but that doesn't mean proving it is worth my time.

I only heard that as a rumor from some other player
When I asked about a source he said the same thing

"Go look youreself
Somewhere in the archives "

Man you just jumped on the same wagon
Someone said something and you belive it

If you have proof it would be easy to just post a damn link to it

BLOOD WOLF, on 25 September 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

A bit of a stretch by no means of the imagination

It's not gonna be 9 months late. Will their be fixes or adjustments needed? maybe

Other features have been promised to be implemented in a timely fashion
Just to be full of issues PGI's track record just isn't very good
There will be balance issues and adjustments needed

However
ED is actually going the right way from an implementation standpoint
Lots of public testing and adjustments and Russ was thinking on twitter for a test of ED on the live servers (to get more players)


Aside from that

You have not posted anything corresponding to this thread at all

You're white knighting, I get it
Still you're getting too drawn into discussions/trolling territory

[BLOOD WOLF]

Peter2k, on 25 September 2016 - 10:12 PM, said:

You have not posted anything corresponding to this thread at all

You're white knighting, I get it
Still you're getting too drawn into discussions/trolling territory

I know you don't like me, I get it , but the post you quoted was on topic. Go ahead and report bro.

and how was i white knighting? you probably don't know what that means. I guarantee that you don't.

I can't blame you. You see the name blood wolf, destroyer of arguments and you go auto-defense. Calm down don't get triggered every time I post.


You also Qouted a post that also had nothing to do with the topic, you just picked out my post FAIL and DERP

If you leave it alone you can save yourself some embarrassment.

I think the skill tree will be fine. Just need to make the skills up for re spec, or make loyalist,merc,free lancer appropriate skills. They can do more for the skills if they have it to where you have to chose a set rather than unlock the whole tree. Specialize and stuff.

Now watch out our friend Peter here probably sent you a private message if your post wasn't on topic which some were not. He only called me out because.......well he was just being fair, and if everyone gets called out then I do to.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 25 September 2016 - 10:46 PM.

[l3elthaz0r]

Mole, on 25 September 2016 - 10:04 PM, said:

LBX cannons in lore are supposed to be able to switch between canister shot (pellets), and solid slug shot. The LBX cannons we have in this game cannot do that, and that feature has been requested a lot as it would make LBX cannons far more useful than they currently are where if you bring one you are forced to use only canister shot regardless of what range you are trying to engage at. There's also been a slew of other suggestions brought up by the community that would make the canister shot of the LBX cannons far more effective at range, such as the canister staying in one solid slug until it reaches a certain distance from its target and then it fractures into its pellet state (there is a technical term for that kind of shot but I don't remember what it is). At any rate, apparently PGI lost the guy who knew how to do weapons and have since then been unable to figure out how to change how LBX cannons work. Which tells me that they are operating without a decent coder. Which tells me that we will see no new content until they get a new coder, which they may never do.

Ah i see, but for that matter, shouldn't non-LBX ACs be a stream of shots instead of one slug? Because if you give the LBX the option to fire one slug or pellets, it will invalidate the AC which is a ton heavier (just going by IS tech here, I haven't played clan)

[Mole]

BLOOD WOLF, on 25 September 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

I know you don't like me, I get it , but the post you quoted was on topic. Go ahead and report bro.

and how was i white knighting? you probably don't know what that means. I guarantee that you don't.

I can't blame you. You see the name blood wolf, destroyer of arguments and you go auto-defense. Calm down don't get triggered every time I post.


You also Qouted a post that also had nothing to do with the topic, you just picked out my post FAIL and DERP

If you leave it alone you can save yourself some embarrassment.

I think the skill tree will be fine. Just need to make the skills up for re spec, or make loyalist,merc,free lancer appropriate skills. They can do more for the skills if they have it to where you have to chose a set rather than unlock the whole tree. Specialize and stuff.

Now watch out our friend Peter here probably sent you a private message if your post wasn't on topic which some were not. He only called me out because.......well he was just being fair, and if everyone gets called out then I do to.

Why does every thread you touch turn to garbage?

[JediPanther]

Aww the mutt needs a milk bone. They should have some sort of tree set up along the lines of this where the skill acts as a universal boost which get applied to the mech-in-match only regardless of the mech's quirks and equipment/modules:


Scout Branch: Level One: Sensor Range Boost Range 20% OR mech acel/decl rate increased by 5%

Level Two: Target Info Boost 20% faster id paper doll OR Counter-ECM length increased by 5%

level Three: Target Tracking Boost 5% target decays 5% slower after target los broken

Brawler Branch Level One: Chose between AC Cool Down 10% OR Laser heat reduction of 10%

Level Two: Ballistic Ammo count increased 100 rounds per ton OR Rate of laser cool down increased 10%

Level Three: Cockpit shake reduced by 20% OR turning speed increased by 10%

Support Branch LRMS Level One: Target lock on time reduced by 10% OR Target Decay increased by 5%

Level Two: Target tracking increased by 10% OR LRM Rate of fire increased by 10% Since they can adjust mg rof this would be identical.

Level Three: LRM Ammo count increased by 100 per ton OR LRM reload speed reduced by 10%

Support Branch Sniper Level One: Ballistic projectile speed incresed by 10% OR (ER) PPC projectile increased by 10%

Level Two:Ballistic ammo count increased by 100 per ton OR Laser range extended by 5%

Level Three: Guass Explosion chance reduced by 30% OR (ER) PPC Heat reduced by 5%

[Peter2k]

JediPanther, on 25 September 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

Aww the mutt needs a milk bone. They should have some sort of tree set up along the lines of this where the skill acts as a universal boost which get applied to the mech-in-match only regardless of the mech's quirks and equipment/modules:

I'd basically like that
Since I wouldn't have to rebuy 2 mechs to level one variant up again

Just no friend of +20% to anything


Also I wonder how much tears we would have since the mechs would loose a lot of agility
Would be fine in the long run since all mechs loose there


mmm

Wonder if PGI is just adding some branches to the pilot skill system we have in place
Leaving the mech tree alone

[Hunka Junk]

Mordric, on 25 September 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

i'd hope that if they go with a skill point system, they will also include a reset system as well.. so if I invest into a ballisitcs system, and desided i did not want to go that route, I could some how reset the system, and redistribute he sill points.

But the real question is: are people willing/interested/excited about paying MC to do so?

I don't need a new skill tree if it means new ways for me to spend money on the game.

[DrxAbstract]

The only issue I have with weapon buffs via the Skill Tree is they're going to so much effort tweaking weapons on PTS, they have to be taking Weapon Modules into consideration (I hope), so Skill Tree modifications to weapons must also be considered (Again, I hope).

Then there's the fact they're making existing Skill Tree changes, which leads to the assumption that a new Skill Tree is still very far down the road (Several months), that said Skill Tree changes will likely not affect Heat efficiency, as evidenced by current Skill Tree changes on PTS, and that the new Skill Tree will not benefit Mechs much in the way of mobility, given the current Skill Tree...

So the following summarized assumptions can be made:
The new Skill Tree will not greatly benefit Heat.
The new Skill Tree will not greatly benefit Mobility.
The new Skill Tree will not greatly benefit Weapons.

Which begs the following questions:
1. Is this because it's currently a blanket-effect system and a more chassis-specific/specialized system will have greater benefits?

2. What will it actually do if PGI is so hesitant to dole out extensive benefits via such a system?

3. Is this an indication the new Skill Tree will be chassis-specific since the current Skill Tree is so limited, presumably because it affects all Mechs?

/ponder

[Vellron2005]

Personally, I hope the revamped skill tree has the following characteristics:

1) Removed "must have 3 mechs to master" rule

2) Focuses on many more aspects of piloting a mech, than just wepons and equipment.

3) Lets us master specific roles of an individual mech. Such as if you want your Timby to be a LRM boat, you make it have more pod space, its LRM's have extra range, better target lock and such.. If you want it to be laser vomit, make the lasers cooler, faster, shorter firing and such..

4) Remove quirks - get quirks through skill tree, not through chassis. (Reflects individual mechwarrior's mods and preferences done to the mech)

5) Let us add hardpoints or features with skills to extreme-mod our mechs, but at high skill levels - e.g. 1 milion skill points = ECM, MASC or Tacticon capability, 500.000 skill points = 1 extra weapon hardpoint or AMS hardpoint.. Limit this to only one or two extreme mods. (Keep mod availability Faction specific... like if you are IS, you can't have MASC, if you are Clan, you can't have Tacticon and such)

6) Let us classify some high-level mechs as "Legendary" - Giving them a 25% cbill boost.

7) Let us trade skill points for some unique cammo / decals, so we can make our "Legendary" mechs looks unique and distinctive

8) Write more lore and fluff into upgrade descriptions - not just what they do, but how and why they do it. (Don't tell me "cool run" gives me a bonus to heat durability - tell me something like "Cool Run - You've learned how to use the maximum of your heat sinks, by using the Osten-Brand method and applying an extra layer of heat-padding, making them work 5% better on this mech"...

9) Make it easier to reach the skill tree - If you click on the "skill tree" tab, it takes you to the skill tree of the currently selected mech, not to all the mechs, and then making you search the mech you wanna level-up.

[TKSax]

I have 0 expectations for the "new skill" Tree they have only been talking about replacing it since the end of closed beta...

[MrJeffers]

The Current skill tree is really broken down into three categories - Mobility, Heat Management, and Weapons, and then the bonus module slot for completion. The Weapons category is really just one now - Fast Fire, with Pinpoint having had no function since the implementation of HSR.

I'd envision the new skill tree first fixing the weapons category, possibly by removing it entirely. Then having Mobility, Heat Management, and InfoTec as the new paths. Ideally with something like the Boarderlands type skill tree where you have a max number of points available (currently 13 in MWO) and each category has say 50-100% of that maximum number of points to spend to fully complete that skill tree. Meaning that to max one skill tree would require most or all of your points, or if 50% allow you to max two categories and ignore one. In either case you can choose to diversify to spread the points across all the categories to get some benefit from each. And regardless of the categories spent, once the maximum points is reached it unlocks a module slot.

The problem this brings is the play testing/and balance - so eliminating any weapons categories makes sense because there are too many variables in that tree that could be exploited to become OP on certain mech chassis/weapon combos. Likewise, I don't expect the actual values in the new skills to be greatly different than what we have now, otherwise the play balance we currently have is completely thrown out the window and it's starting from scratch.

Edited by MrJeffers, 26 September 2016 - 07:13 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

Personally, I hope the revamped skill tree has the following characteristics:

Just going to put the TL;DR up here and say "Nope" to most everything you suggested because they're completely imbalanced and/or makes no sense.

PGI nerfed the general skill trees because they didn't want veteran players having such a huge advantage over newbies. Although then, like now, the potatoes are filtering into all Tiers, especially ones they don't belong in... So until PGI gets off their duff and fixes the PSR system, you should expect that mentality to continue inhibiting proper skill tree development.

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

1) Removed "must have 3 mechs to master" rule

Yes.

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

2) Focuses on many more aspects of piloting a mech, than just wepons and equipment.

The current skill tree is almost entirely Mobility-oriented (Piloting) with only 3 of 13 skills devoted to weapon usage and 1 toward equipment/weapon(Master Slot), so where does this even come from? Do you even MWO, bro?

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

3) Lets us master specific roles of an individual mech. Such as if you want your Timby to be a LRM boat, you make it have more pod space, its LRM's have extra range, better target lock and such.. If you want it to be laser vomit, make the lasers cooler, faster, shorter firing and such..

Additional pod space? No... No to all of this. Without a functioning role system, role-oriented skills are useless and even if they did implement role-specific skills then everyone and their brother would just pick the ones that boost Firepower 99.9% of the time, even moreso if it was set up as an one-or-the-other design.

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

4) Remove quirks - get quirks through skill tree, not through chassis. (Reflects individual mechwarrior's mods and preferences done to the mech)

No. This only compiles the power differential between Veterans and Newbies, something PGI is actively trying to avoid (Could be mitigated with a proper matchmaker, but not entirely). Not to mention Quirks are actually good for bringing weaker Mechs up to par--PGI just needs to get better at using them. Some Mechs having minor boosts that reflect their historical functionality is fine, but removing Quirks and instituting them into a skill tree? No.

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

5) Let us add hardpoints or features with skills to extreme-mod our mechs, but at high skill levels - e.g. 1 milion skill points = ECM, MASC or Tacticon capability, 500.000 skill points = 1 extra weapon hardpoint or AMS hardpoint.. Limit this to only one or two extreme mods. (Keep mod availability Faction specific... like if you are IS, you can't have MASC, if you are Clan, you can't have Tacticon and such)

Absolutely not. Mostly for reasons already stated earlier in this response, but the last thing most of these Mechs need are more hardpoints. And do you know what Tacticon does? It's not great, or good, or worth it... It doesnt even approach MASC's level of utility. It's like IS Command Console vs. Clan Targeting Computer level bad, which makes 'achieving' its use akin to "Congratulations - Here's a rusted nail through your scrotum!"

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

6) Let us classify some high-level mechs as "Legendary" - Giving them a 25% cbill boost.

Only as long as Hero Mechs qualify as well, having a 55% boost potential. But it definitely shouldnt be called "Legendary" as this isnt WoWarcraft despite people's apparent propensity for making it such.

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

7) Let us trade skill points for some unique cammo / decals, so we can make our "Legendary" mechs looks unique and distinctive.

Sure, extra camos and cosmetics... Again, dont call it 'Legendary'.

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

8) Write more lore and fluff into upgrade descriptions - not just what they do, but how and why they do it. (Don't tell me "cool run" gives me a bonus to heat durability - tell me something like "Cool Run - You've learned how to use the maximum of your heat sinks, by using the Osten-Brand method and applying an extra layer of heat-padding, making them work 5% better on this mech"...

Yay lore fluff... But needs to make sense, which the above example does not unless you're a Mechanic and MechWarrior.

Vellron2005, on 26 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

9) Make it easier to reach the skill tree - If you click on the "skill tree" tab, it takes you to the skill tree of the currently selected mech, not to all the mechs, and then making you search the mech you wanna level-up.

This is unnecessary and would save one, maybe two clicks initially and then be the same exact thing we already have that would require sifting through the Mech Selection screen rather than the Skills tab, which isnt difficult to navigate as it is... So it amounts to a waste of Dev time.