301 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

Yes, they are the same person. I haven't used my alt account to vote because I thought that was dishonest.

Same, and I have two, in the interest of transparency, they are Gluesilver (race to tier 1 vindi/pixie only account) and some other one I wish I could delete to get my email switched over.

I did notice two alt accounts on the side against ED (not going to out them though, even though one is obvious) but again, I don't think the vote is flooded with alts (since I see a lot of names I recognize as non-alts), removing them wouldn't impact the result of the vote that much, certainly not enough for PD to have remained.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 October 2016 - 10:45 AM.

[Novakaine]

Bud Crue, on 27 October 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

One of my favorite White Knight argument strategies is to assert that PGI has data based on actual games played, and that is why they make/made whatever stupid/absurd change the rest of us are complaining about at a given time. But I do love when PGI does something that even the White Knights dislike. Then they shift to: the change was made because they listened to a vocal minority of whiners. Wait, what about all that data?

In the case of ED this hypocrisy is even more blatant, because PGI set up the PTS for the sole purpose of collecting that data. Which now either shows a problem and PGI is reacting to that problem. Or that data shows no problems, but for some reason PGI is instead choosing to listen to a "few" whiners who were out to ruin ED.

Just priceless.

+50
Just follow the twit trail.

[Gas Guzzler]

Novakaine, on 27 October 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

+50
Just follow the twit trail.

..I think he was calling people like you out, but I may have misunderstood.

[cazidin]

Alright. If PGI is going to push Energy Draw back, and very probably forget it ever existed, what will we get to replace Ghost Heat now if anything? Will we finally get a Heat Scale or just weapon stat adjustments and then PGI will call it a day and offer a new heavy/assault Mechpack?

[Bud Crue]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

..I think he was calling people like you out, but I may have misunderstood.

Not necessarily Novakaine (he actually put forth some (specious) reasoning for his view (come on man uacs? spitballs?). But rather those who insist PGI does things for a reason, except when they don't, in which case it is the forum's/players' fault. That just boggles me every time.

Edited by Bud Crue, 27 October 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

cazidin, on 27 October 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

Alright. If PGI is going to push Energy Draw back, and very probably forget it ever existed, what will we get to replace Ghost Heat now if anything? Will we finally get a Heat Scale or just weapon stat adjustments and then PGI will call it a day and offer a new heavy/assault Mechpack?

Look what happened when the BK went from -10% heat gen to -5% heat gen, and a couple other minor quirk nerfs. All of a sudden, its not a top tier Heavy anymore, despite its ZOMGWTFBBQ alpha of 58 damage.

Clan Heat cap nerf took the alpha king Space Whale out of top tier contention.

There are other ways to make going full huge alpha only have a situational effectiveness.. I promise. I could see some heat cap nerfs coming, and also the UAC jam chance changes will definitely affect the Dakkabear.

[cazidin]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Look what happened when the BK went from -10% heat gen to -5% heat gen, and a couple other minor quirk nerfs. All of a sudden, its not a top tier Heavy anymore, despite its ZOMGWTFBBQ alpha of 58 damage.

Clan Heat cap nerf took the alpha king Space Whale out of top tier contention.

There are other ways to make going full huge alpha only have a situational effectiveness.. I promise. I could see some heat cap nerfs coming, and also the UAC jam chance changes will definitely affect the Dakkabear.

...You're saying that PGI is going to implement simple solutions?

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

Im sure it has nothing to do with typical cyclical steam players trying a new game, the lack of new game modes, or the failing faction play system. Hell, I bet the game economy has more to do with the downturn of players and bad new player retention than the current system. There are dozens of reasons for people to be bored with the game, you are simply saying it is the ghost heat system without any evidence. Pretty weak argument.

No one mentioned ghost heat but you...

Next strawman?

[MadcatX]

Well that's a shame.

Was kind of looking forward to ED for the sole fact that it's the first actual change to the gameplay mechanics (good or bad, meh, seeing as how the PTS was in a 4vs4 environment all talk is just that, talk). Would've got me to patch the loader and at least log back in.

[C E Dwyer]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 October 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

Mediocre mechs?
Any Clan laser vomit
Any build combining UACs and lasers
Black Knight
Anything with SRMs and lasers

Basically, if your a medium, you take 2 cER PPCs, if your a heavy, you take PPFLD or dakka, if you an assault, you take PPFLD and dakka, only for the KDK-3, you fire your Gauss and ER PPCs separately which is necessary at range anyway.

If you are a light, you are unaffected.

You forgot every build that involves an AC20

[Gas Guzzler]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

No one mentioned ghost heat but you...

Next strawman?

I thought that was what you were attributing to the declining numbers, but my point stands, nowhere is there any evidence of declining numbers being attributed to the heat system in general, or the "alpha warrior online" that you guys always complain about or anything else that Energy Draw intended to fix. MWO's issues are elsewhere despite the vocal minority trying to say that it is the alphas that need to be stopped at all costs.

Cathy, on 27 October 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

You forgot every build that involves an AC20

Yes you are right! Sorry!

[Mcgral18]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

No one mentioned ghost heat but you...

Next strawman?

...

[Gas Guzzler]

MadcatX, on 27 October 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

Well that's a shame.

Was kind of looking forward to ED for the sole fact that it's the first actual change to the gameplay mechanics (good or bad, meh, seeing as how the PTS was in a 4vs4 environment all talk is just that, talk). Would've got me to patch the loader and at least log back in.

Change for the sake of change isn't really a good argument for Energy Draw.

[TLBFestus]

Cementi, on 26 October 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

[Redacted] While I am not 100% for ED I feel something needs to be done and more testing would have been better than scrapping yet another system they spent time developing.

Congrats on caving in to the cryhards 2 years in a row PGI. Enjoy your alpha warrior online [Redacted]

Anyone else see the humor in this? The guys crying about cryhards. Pot...meet kettle.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

nowhere is there any evidence of declining numbers being attributed to the heat system in general, or the "alpha warrior online" that you guys always complain about or anything else that Energy Draw intended to fix. MWO's issues are elsewhere despite the vocal minority trying to say that it is the alphas that need to be stopped at all costs.

There is no evidence that proves any one aspect is directly to blame.

The only evidence that is actually objective is that:
1) the game has consistently lost players, and
2) every proposed system that would change the game from the state it's consistently held has been cancelled.

Ergo: Listening to the vocal minorities call to change nothing fixes nothing.

Spoiler Alert: You're part of the problem, not the solution.

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 27 October 2016 - 11:30 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

My own views on the subject.

Something has got to be done, on the surface, ED looked good, but when the adjustments arrived, it just became a mess, that simply wasn't going to work. It penalised weapons that were already borderline, and just opened up to many issues to balance.

When you start messing around nerfing weapons to make a system work, it clearly demonstrates that it just doesn't work.

Want a game to last longer, increase all weapons cool down, want people to not fire so many weapons in one hit, lower heat thresh hold, don't want them shut down for ages, once they've taken that heat damage, then increase dissipation.

These on their own are not a cure, but it's a far simpler and easier thing to implement, that would need very little changes to weapon balancing.

These are sensible and easy to introduce, yet P.G.I shy away from them, and I wish I knew why, as they have never said, just not attempted to try it

[Gas Guzzler]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

There is no evidence that proves any one aspect is directly to blame.

The only evidence that is actually objective is that:
1) the game has consistently lost players, and
2) every proposed system that would change the game from the state it's consistently held has been cancelled.

Ergo: Listening to the vocal minorities call to change nothing fixes nothing.

Spoiler Alert: You're part of the problem, not the solution.

How can you call me a vocal minority when more people agree with me, than agree with you?

Maybe its because these game changing systems aren't implemented properly? Is that impossible for you to consider? Trying a system that has bad side effects shouldn't just be passed through for the sake of change, that would be a huge error on PGI's part.

The game needs improved game modes other than TDM, and meaningful faction play. And for god's sake, balance the outlying mechs. There is data available, there is no reason the KDK-3 should still have positive quirks!! There much simpler solutions to the game's gameplay/balance issues, and Energy Draw doesn't actually fully address those issues anyway. Most of the alpha builds people complain about have been balanced and are already not "top tier", so why do we need to nerf mediocre mechs?

So stop acting like Energy Draw was great and its just a handful of us screaming we don't like it convincing PGI to drop it. There were issues with it, just because you choose not to see them doesn't mean they aren't there.

I guess if I rocked an LRM Atlas all the time I would want my opponents to have to stare 3 times as long outside of cover too, but hey, personal gains shouldn't be considered when discussing balance and variety.

[Bud Crue]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

There is no evidence that proves any one aspect is directly to blame.

The only evidence that is actually objective is that:
1) the game has consistently lost players, and
2) every proposed system that would change the game from the state it's consistently held has been cancelled.

Ergo: Listening to the vocal minorities call to change nothing fixes nothing.

Spoiler Alert: You're part of the problem, not the solution.

1) Ummm...Russ tweeted last month that MWO has seen a gradual increase in players over the summer. Our subjective evidence to the contrary be damned.

2) mini map changed the game, stupid command wheel changed the game, rescale REALLY changed the game (RIP Wolfhound, Panther, Firestarter, Black Knight, etc.), every nerf pass changes the game, Kodiak introduction REALLY, REALLY changed the state of the game.

Just sayin.

[DAYLEET]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 October 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

If ED limits heavy DPS, then by definition it limits assault DPS to the same value as heavy DPS because nothing in the system differentiates between mechs or weight classes. Thus my point that Assaults would become pointless, due to no longer having any reason to exist.

If you need to increase TTK (i dont think we do, but still) then the way to do it is by reducing weapon damage, because that doesnt screw an entire weightclass. Assaults have to be able to output more firepower than heavies

TTK needs to be put to what it was before the first clan wave with the added benefit for the assault of the armor/structure buff they have now. The game was slower and most enjoyable gunplay-wise. Arguably, it makes for a much harder game to play but its more rewarding. Right now the game is more punishing rather than more rewarding. If the possible alpha was lowered, increasing overall time to kill for everyone, assault and heavies would actually have a good reasons to exist, you know, the very same one they have always had. Aside from sponging damage and dealing more damage as a result of higher life expectancy. They would still be able to carry more diverse weapon group(this needs to be rewarded in some ways), they would still be able to adapt better at different stage of a fight. Heavies and Assault can still retain higher possible alpha by virtue of having more dhs or bigger engine or just more Energy to Draw from a light i dont care.

If alpha was lowered or at least required bigger cooldown, we could again have faster and more agile Light. Right now with 30pts of alpha a light cant ***** at being bigger and slower. Rather than fix the problem we worked around it with Quirks and resize and we're in this mess right now where all mech feel too slow, not agile enough, not sturdy enough and that problem even infect map in the way they get played, more restrictively as time passes because the our options and time to play are diminishing.

Reducing total damage flying would increase the skill range since those who can be more cohesive with thier team, aim, press R and are better pilot would be hit less by the nerf. Why do you think the championship is 8vs8.

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

Why? The Kodiak-3 is too strong, but why are the rest of mechs needing to be toned down?

The KD or any other mech belong in another thread. We are not trying to balance mech with a ghost heat revamp, we(me at least) are trying to put the game in a better place. Balance pass need to be done on their own. I dont know which one need to happen first but at the pace things have been moving we're lucky to have one by the end of next year and i would take anything now over nothing. In the mean time, happy Alpha Warrior Online.

Edited by DAYLEET, 27 October 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[chucklesMuch]

I'm glad that PGI has, so far, done what they said they would do with ED. That being, only releasing it if it was better than what we have now. My concern has been, that ED would just get dumped on us (like a Spanish Inquistion).
Glad it's been bumped. Maybe they can create a version going forward, that will be an improvement... till then I hope that the impending balance changes are improvements.