307 replies to this topic

[no one]

Blind Baku, on 08 December 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

If anything the recent adjustments to cooldown and spread helped make them at least seem more viable.

Still seems like they're doing it wrong. LRMs should use streak-like behavior so that their damage spread is consistent across launchers, and less effected by target size.

Edited by no one, 10 December 2016 - 11:11 AM.

[Darkhorse13Golf]

If I wanted SRMs on it I would have put them there. And you just basically said that it doesn't matter if a build is used successfully, if it doesn't fit your perception of right then it's automatically bad. Kind of odd.

[Evil Goof]

Darkhorse13Golf, on 09 December 2016 - 09:47 PM, said:

Actually that Tbolt build has been quite effective in PUG play or I wouldn't have cited it. So if I can make that hopeless build pump out enough damage to be useful is it a bad build or just because you feel you couldn't run it well you arrogantly proclaim it's terrible?

Me claiming the sky is blue would not be arrogance, just me stating a fact and common knowledge.

I am not sure if you are tier five or you are just trolling at this point. Hard to believe you are actually being serious.

To be clear and reiterate. If I went to the forums and proclaimed that the spider 5k with 1 machine gun and one flamer is an amazing build that I came up with and did amazing in pug games with an average of 1499 dmg per match...it would still be more likely than the nonsense you are trying to sell.

[Brother MEX]

Thats not the only problem with LRM ... did you notice that 4 LRM5 need much shorter for reloading than a single LRM20 ?

no one, on 10 December 2016 - 01:35 AM, said:

Still seems like they're doing it wrong. LRMs should use streak-like behavior so that they're damage spread is consistent across launchers, and less effected by target size.

I like your picture of LRM spread, NO ONE !
Can I use it on our website http://brotherhood-of-randis.clans.de too ?

Edited by Brother MEX, 10 December 2016 - 02:16 AM.

[BlueFlames]

Darkhorse13Golf, on 10 December 2016 - 01:45 AM, said:

If I wanted SRMs on it I would have put them there. And you just basically said that it doesn't matter if a build is used successfully, if it doesn't fit your perception of right then it's automatically bad. Kind of odd.

Hey, I'm all for specializing a build for a particular range bracket. I just think that said range bracket should be a bit wider than 62m.

And no, I'm not saying that all builds that don't fit my particular style are bad. For example, I've moved entirely away from using standard engines in anything, but there's a handful of standard engine builds that I grudgingly admit are competitive with comparable XL builds.

For that matter, I hadn't even said your build was bad. But you know what? You seem to have some kind of persecution complex that needs to be fed, so I'll oblige.

Now, I'm saying your build is bad. It wastes tonnage on weapons that don't synergize with each other. You have a mech that can't use half its weaponry at close range, can't use half its weaponry at long range, and could be using more effective weaponry at mid-range. That sounds like a bad build to me, but if you want to throw the blinders on and say, "I like it and can cherry-pick a handful of matches to prove it's good!" then you do you. If you'd like to git gud, then maybe you'll choose whether or not you want your Thunderbolt to be a long range or short range mech and stop waffling in the mech lab.

[Darkhorse13Golf]

Evil Goof, on 10 December 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

Me claiming the sky is blue would not be arrogance, just me stating a fact and common knowledge.

I am not sure if you are tier five or you are just trolling at this point. Hard to believe you are actually being serious.

To be clear and reiterate. If I went to the forums and proclaimed that the spider 5k with 1 machine gun and one flamer is an amazing build that I came up with and did amazing in pug games with an average of 1499 dmg per match...it would still be more likely than the nonsense you are trying to sell.

It's only silly if it doesn't work but if you're not clever enough to run something I totally understand.

[Darkhorse13Golf]

BlueFlames, on 10 December 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

Hey, I'm all for specializing a build for a particular range bracket. I just think that said range bracket should be a bit wider than

And no, I'm not saying that all builds that don't fit my particular style are bad. For example, I've moved entirely away from using standard engines in anything, but there's a handful of standard engine builds that I grudgingly admit are competitive with comparable XL builds.

For that matter, I hadn't even said your build was bad. But you know what? You seem to have some kind of persecution complex that needs to be fed, so I'll oblige.

Now, I'm saying your build is bad. It wastes tonnage on weapons that don't synergize with each other. You have a mech that can't use half its weaponry at close range, can't use half its weaponry at long range, and could be using more effective weaponry at mid-range. That sounds like a bad build to me, but if you want to throw the blinders on and say, "I like it and can cherry-pick a handful of matches to prove it's good!" then you do you. If you'd like to git gud, then maybe you'll choose whether or not you want your Thunderbolt to be a long range or short range mech and stop waffling in the mech lab.

Wow dude when you start throwing all that math at and measurements at me I might just reconsider....bwahahaha not really. You guys can be as condescending from hundreds of miles away as you want. It works, that's all that matters. You want to be a mindless meta slave that's on you. You kids have a nice day, I'm over it

[Blind Baku]

no one, on 10 December 2016 - 01:35 AM, said:

Still seems like they're doing it wrong. LRMs should use streak-like behavior so that they're damage spread is consistent across launchers, and less effected by target size.

1 - great image
2 - I agree, they should behave differently, there should generally be less wasted damage in the high volume LRMs... but since that is unfortunately just they way they work right now, 5's with the focus, cycle speed, and non-existent heat just seem to be the best way to go.
3 - If we're going to talk dynamic changes, why not also allow the user to switch between volley or stream fire. Sometimes I just want all 5 to hit at the same moment, rather than trailing behind (for CLRMs), or I want to stream them out to maximize the PITA shake (IS LRMs). Or maybe some way of targeting components¹, but that would be asking a bit much.

Just some extra thoughts.

¹Say something like Initial Lock, then a toggle option to select a "sub lock" or God helps us a multi lock option, but that would be me going all Macross on the Battletech universe and the Lore Keepers might not like that

Edited by Blind Baku, 10 December 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[BlueFlames]

Darkhorse13Golf, on 10 December 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

You want to be a mindless meta slave that's on you.

Darkhorse13Golf, on 10 December 2016 - 01:45 AM, said:

And you just basically said that it doesn't matter if a build is used successfully, if it doesn't fit your perception of right then it's automatically bad. Kind of odd.

Seems that your accusation that people dismiss your builds because they don't fit that individual critic's build doctrine was projection. Either that, or you made quite a turn in less than twenty-four hours, going from effectiveness as the sole metric of success to hating on builds that work for many players across a broad spectrum of skill levels because they aren't your builds.

Anyway, if you're bailing from the thread, then I'm just as happy to see you go. Someone with too much ego to believe that their builds have room to be improved probably doesn't have a lot of value to add to a conversation.

(P.S. - A TDR-9SE with SRMs is not and never has been "meta". The meta 9SE build is still 3LPL, because that's what it's quirked for.)

[no one]

Brother MEX, on 10 December 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:

I like your picture of LRM spread, NO ONE !
Can I use it on our website http://brotherhood-of-randis.clans.de too ?

Go for it dude. It's just a paint doodle I did on top of a 'mech damage transfer diagram.

Blind Baku, on 10 December 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

3 - If we're going to talk dynamic changes, why not also allow the user to switch between volley or stream fire.

They could make closed missile doors fire streams of missiles instead of delaying launch. That would be more relevant to LRMs and ripple fired SRMs are awesome. I used to have a lot of fun cramming a SRM into a NARC slot and pooting out a stream of missiles. Stream fire does reduce LRM effectiveness though, since it increases fire time and makes the missiles more vulnerable to ams.

You could have LRMs do something like track to a component under your reticule when you have Artemis and LOS. That might be more like FTL LRM behavior though, and would be somewhat unbalanced against assaults.

[Blind Baku]

no one, on 10 December 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

You could have LRMs do something like track to a component under your reticule when you have Artemis and LOS. That might be more like FTL LRM behavior though, and would be somewhat unbalanced against assaults.

Spoiler

[Edit]not sure I care about assaults getting a little less love, but I have a bias.

Edited by Blind Baku, 10 December 2016 - 01:52 PM.

[Evil Goof]

Darkhorse13Golf, on 10 December 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

It's only silly if it doesn't work but if you're not clever enough to run something I totally understand.

If you think it's clever that says more about you than me.

[Lyoto Machida]

no one, on 10 December 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

Go for it dude. It's just a paint doodle I did on top of a 'mech damage transfer diagram.



They could make closed missile doors fire streams of missiles instead of delaying launch. That would be more relevant to LRMs and ripple fired SRMs are awesome. I used to have a lot of fun cramming a SRM into a NARC slot and pooting out a stream of missiles. Stream fire does reduce LRM effectiveness though, since it increases fire time and makes the missiles more vulnerable to ams.

You could have LRMs do something like track to a component under your reticule when you have Artemis and LOS. That might be more like FTL LRM behavior though, and would be somewhat unbalanced against assaults.

Blind Baku, on 10 December 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

Spoiler

[Edit]not sure I care about assaults getting a little less love, but I have a bias.

Should be TAG, not Artemis, for component tracking with missiles. Makes more sense to me from both a logical and gameplay perspective.

[Blind Baku]

Lyoto Machida, on 11 December 2016 - 12:07 AM, said:

Should be TAG, not Artemis, for component tracking with missiles. Makes more sense to me from both a logical and gameplay perspective.

That I can see, would it "High jack" the guidance on all missiles headed toward that target, or just the ones fired by the user?

[InspectorG]

Evil Goof, on 23 November 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

So running a Catapult C1 or Maddog is not going to be where the hate is focused. Saying FU to the majority of the community and running lrm's on a 100 ton assault from the back of the pack will continue to get people rightfully pissed off and is really a troll thing to do. If you love your lrm's, do so as a strong team player and with some basic sense, and you will get your locks.

There is a premium on mobility but LRMing can be done in Assaults IF done AGGRESSIVELY and with good positioning...which most lurmers lack.

Really, for Lurming to work, use a TAG, stay @400m away from the target to reduce reaction time.

I hate using LRMs but have had some killer matches in my LRM70 Hoverlander-llC-B. Pugs get scared when i get position next to our brawlers and dump 70 on their CT via TAG as they get blasted by teammates.

i also dont mind getting hit to allow teammates(the aggro ones, the campers can go die in a corner) to peek because i know my troll build will be a target and i can draw fire. Talking stupid smack helps this as well. "There can be only one!!!"

But all in all, LRMs are terribad inefficient means of doing damage.

[Elric Tchernovkov]

Back when CW was still a thing, I would run a SCR with 4XCLRM5, 4XERSL, and a TAG in the head. At 300 meters I could make an assault beg for mercy. At 75 meters I could trade with backstabbing lights, and everything else I could run away with.
First and foremost, if you are going to run LRM's; you should always have a TAG or a NARC. PERIOD. Otherwise go for SRM's or Streaks. Always have an Active Probe. Finally, Advanced Target Decay is a must for a module. At Tier 1 and 2 LRMs do not focus damage enough to be effective, UNLESS you have a 10 or 12 man premade.AND you know what you are doing. Still, there are better options.

some of my LURM boats:

TDR (forget which one) 1XLRM15, 1XLRM10, 1 TAG, 2XLL (not ER) 1XLBX10.
STK 5M 2XLRM15, 3XLRM5, 1XTAG, 5XML (Best game ever, 2466 dmg, Ace Of Spades Acheeb)

I know I have more but have not played in a year and was trolling forums while game updated (17 patches) As always use cover wisely, break target locks, and try to invest in a Radar Deprivation Module. Will pay for itself many times over in damage avoided.

[Thor Sten]

I (currently primarily harrasing YOU with my Locust), don't get hate for LRMs. Sure, I cringe about LRM-Boats that think it's safe to stand 1000m away from their team, but "hate" up to the point you don't lock targets, sound childish and dumb. I mean what's not to love about LRMs? Your teammates soften your enemies for you and distract them (first they get nervous and sloppy, seeking cover, and if the shower hits they wont know you hit them as well, and in a duel they're a little bit more distracted, unable to focus on you...).

OTOH, I don't get people who don't lock target in the first place (without a lock nobody will ever know if you're engaged or where the enemy is hiding, well, not until you're dead). The only reasons I can see for this, are new players overextended with the user interface, or somone who desperatly wants a solo kill (the latter, again, sounds childish and dumb).

Also LRMs aren't Noob weapons. They might look tempting/overpowered to noobs because they only experience that they get killed, without ever seeing the enemy. Once they try them, however, there's a steep learning curve: ECM, AMS and mostly RadarDerp suck the fun out of newbie-LRMboats and the Pilot needs tons of experience with the maps, to know when an enemy is behind cover and a shot is wasted. Also they need to learn, to keep locks and NEVER ever get left behind, or else they'll get eaten by a cringing single Locust.

Edited by Thor Sten, 23 December 2016 - 12:37 PM.

[Blind Baku]

Thor Sten, on 23 December 2016 - 05:57 AM, said:

OTOH, I don't get people who don't lock target in the first place (without a lock nobody will ever know if you're engaged or where the enemy is hiding, well, not until you're dead). The only reasons I can see for this, are new players overextended with the user interface, or someone who desperately wants a solo kill (the latter, again, sounds childish and dumb).

I might hold off on a lock when I am ranging out by my self in ECM lights, or something like that, to prevent the person being locked from getting a heads up that there is someone watching them. I'm not 100% on the mechanics, but I believe anytime you get locked there is a light¹ in your cockpit that flashes warning you that you have been locked².

1 You see the flash of light across your cockpit, as if a light behind your head flashed twice, not a light on the dash board or anything. Two white flashes warning you're locked.
2 Some have said it only happens if you have a Radar derp equipped.

[InspectorG]

Darkhorse13Golf, on 10 December 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

It's only silly if it doesn't work but if you're not clever enough to run something I totally understand.

Would you take a knife to a gun fight? Im not talking sentry removal or anything niche.

Im saying, modern warfare, everyone else has rifles, would you exchange your rifle for a knife because you are clever?

[Thor Sten]

Blind Baku, on 23 December 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

I might hold off on a lock when I am ranging out by my self in ECM lights, or something like that, to prevent the person being locked from getting a heads up that there is someone watching them. I'm not 100% on the mechanics, but I believe anytime you get locked there is a light¹ in your cockpit that flashes warning you that you have been locked².

1 You see the flash of light across your cockpit, as if a light behind your head flashed twice, not a light on the dash board or anything. Two white flashes warning you're locked.
2 Some have said it only happens if you have a Radar derp equipped.

OK, that's a point. I can accept that. However I often spectate, and a lot of people already shoot at the enemy, even in close quarters, not bothering the slightest to lock. "Bonus points" if they whine thereafter, why, o why, nobody came to their help