146 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

A King Crab with torso mounted ballistics would absolutley rescue the chassis from obscurity (2B or 1E1B per ST would take it from mediocre to amazing). But that would be arguably too much pay to win.

[Bishop Steiner]

Snazzy Dragon, on 07 January 2017 - 12:47 AM, said:

I'm guessing he must reside in one of them states where"special " brownies are legal......

Widowmaker1981, on 07 January 2017 - 04:00 AM, said:

A King Crab with torso mounted ballistics would absolutley rescue the chassis from obscurity (2B or 1E1B per ST would take it from mediocre to amazing). But that would be arguably too much pay to win.

Probably depend on the total package...1-2 torso ballistics probably not a big deal. 4? Yeah, then things getting ugly.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hidirian, on 07 January 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

Are you high? No one is agreeing with me about the words that I wrote when I started this topic? Sure, some have disagreed about moving some hard points around for a hero variant, but you're the first to disagree that I wrote something which I clearly did. #drugsrbadmmmm'k...

[Hidirian]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 January 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Using a image of a kid that sees/talks to dead people as some way of trying to prove you're not on drugs is just another reason why I think you're on drugs.

Edited by Hidirian, 07 January 2017 - 11:03 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hidirian, on 07 January 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

Using a image of a kid that sees/talks to dead people as some way of trying to prove you're not on drugs is just another reason why I think you're on drugs.

perhaps you should reread this thread, instead. Might help you with your own denial issues. Acceptance, they say, is the first step to recovery.

[Hidirian]

Snazzy Dragon, on 07 January 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

Nevermind the loyalty stalker and summoner, the oxide, the ultraviolet, medusa, redline, warrant, and other such mechs with distinct advantages

Exactly my point(not that I'm advocating ops heroes). I just want to see a KC with hps moved around(and its not like they'll add another variant so it kinda has to be a hero). I'd even be fine with 3/1/1/3 for its ballistic hps.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hidirian, on 07 January 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

Exactly my point(not that I'm advocating ops heroes). I just want to see a KC with hps moved around(and its not like they'll add another variant so it kinda has to be a hero). I'd even be fine with 3/1/1/3 for its ballistic hps.

damn good thing they made this game to cater specifically to you myopic demands, then! Sounds like a huge seller! (Or...boring as hell, but hey, why let reality interfere at this juncture?)

[Hidirian]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 January 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

damn good thing they made this game to cater specifically to you myopic demands, then! Sounds like a huge seller! (Or...boring as hell, but hey, why let reality interfere at this juncture?)

Myopic demands? First of all I'm not demanding anything, I stated what I would like to see in a KCH mech, this is a discussion thread on what would be a good variant of the KC that's different from other KCs to warrant it being a Hero variant. Should I have suggested a KC with 10 energy hps? Or how about one that has MASC with JJs or one with JJs and ECM?

[Bishop Steiner]

Hidirian, on 07 January 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Myopic demands? First of all I'm not demanding anything, I stated what I would like to see in a KCH mech, this is a discussion thread on what would be a good variant of the KC that's different from other KCs to warrant it being a Hero variant. Should I have suggested a KC with 10 energy hps? Or how about one that has MASC with JJs or one with JJs and ECM?

Yes a discussion thread in which anything but a 6-8 Ballistic KGC is not acceptable. Lots to discuss. This is, and has been from the get go an "I wanna Dakka Krab, Who Agrees with me?!?!?!?" thread. To which, laughably, no one has agreed with you, but any alternatives mentioned (you will note I didn't even bring up the Kaiju, though I did challenge you to prove your assertion it would "be bad and nobody would buy it"....which I note you still haven't), you simply insult, belittle then return to your broken Dakka Krab record.

Perhaps you should actually enlighten yourself as to what a discussion actually entails? You might be shocked to find out it involves the SHARING of ideas, oftentimes disparate, and then reasoned discussions towards the merits or lack thereof to the ideas presented.

[Hidirian]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 January 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

Yes a discussion thread in which anything but a 6-8 Ballistic KGC is not acceptable. Lots to discuss. This is, and has been from the get go an "I wanna Dakka Krab, Who Agrees with me?!?!?!?" thread. To which, laughably, no one has agreed with you, but any alternatives mentioned (you will note I didn't even bring up the Kaiju, though I did challenge you to prove your assertion it would "be bad and nobody would buy it"....which I note you still haven't), you simply insult, belittle then return to your broken Dakka Krab record.

Perhaps you should actually enlighten yourself as to what a discussion actually entails? You might be shocked to find out it involves the SHARING of ideas, oftentimes disparate, and then reasoned discussions towards the merits or lack thereof to the ideas presented.

The reason that variant doesn't work is that its basically the same as a 0000 with ECM, which I have stated. You can do everything that the "kaiju" can with a 0000, you want a gauss and 2 ppcs? Go ahead, cause you can do that with the 0000. If you claim its not the same cause the gauss isn't a high point then you're just promoting the "high point meta" which I don't care about as I already pilot a KC and don't care about high points. The KC is first and foremost a ballistic mech and it always has been, like my suggestion for the 1/1/1/1 KC could also have 1 en hp in each arm and 2 miss in each side torso. My main point was it needs to be different enough from other variants to warrant it being a hero and no other variant has Ballistic hps in the side torsos.

Edited by Hidirian, 07 January 2017 - 12:28 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

You know what I'd really like to see? 4 LPLs in the arms and 5 MGs on each ST on the shoulder mounts. That's 4 energy and 10 ballistic, btw. I doubt they'd ever do it as it would allow for super-sniper KGC builds using double Gauss or extreme AC2 builds on shoulder mounts, but I'd love to run something with that build.

[NRP]

I like it, Levi. To he'll with the Pay 2 Win cries.

[The6thMessenger]

Hidirian, on 07 January 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

The reason that variant doesn't work is that its basically the same as a 0000 with ECM, which I have stated. You can do everything that the "kaiju" can with a 0000, you want a gauss and 2 ppcs? Go ahead, cause you can do that with the 0000. If you claim its not the same cause the gauss isn't a high point then you're just promoting the "high point meta" which I don't care about as I already pilot a KC and don't care about high points. The KC is first and foremost a ballistic mech and it always has been, like my suggestion for the 1/1/1/1 KC could also have 1 en hp in each arm and 2 miss in each side torso. My main point was it needs to be different enough from other variants to warrant it being a hero and no other variant has Ballistic hps in the side torsos.

Narcisistic personality disorder alert!

The world does not revolve around you, not because you don't care about high mounts, it's not going to work. Since when did we needed your approval?

Our (my) main point is that the Kaiju offers enough difference, due to the difference of gameplay it brings, not only it sucks meta **** working that shaft like a dirty *****, people will actually pay to win. Being PPFLD-meta built with low face time, ecm to boot, adds up in a lot of survivability which makes them astronomically better (competitively) than the rest of the variants that would make pay-to-win people flock to buy it.

Also, PGI is literally making the game, they have the liberty to actually change what KGC is about, and being a hero variant it can be even more different and need not to follow the spirit of KGC. If anything, being an even more ballistic-heavy variant is less different than Kaiju, since all you're doing is putting the ballistic-theme up to 11.

If you can't comprehend that, we can't help you.

[Hidirian]

The6thMessenger, on 07 January 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Narcisistic personality disorder alert!

The world does not revolve around you, not because you don't care about high mounts, it's not going to work. Since when did we needed your approval?

Our (my) main point is that the Kaiju offers enough difference, due to the difference of gameplay it brings, not only it sucks meta **** working that shaft like a dirty *****, people will actually pay to win. Being PPFLD-meta built with low face time, ecm to boot, adds up in a lot of survivability which makes them astronomically better (competitively) than the rest of the variants that would make pay-to-win people flock to buy it.

Also, PGI is literally making the game, they have the liberty to actually change what KGC is about, and being a hero variant it can be even more different and need not to follow the spirit of KGC. If anything, being an even more ballistic-heavy variant is less different than Kaiju, since all you're doing is putting the ballistic-theme up to 11.

If you can't comprehend that, we can't help you.

Have you ever even piloted a KC? Cause it sounds like you never have, and if you have post your play time stats with it. I'd like to see that you know what its like to actually play one.

Yes PGI is making the game, which is why I as someone who wants a hero variant for a KC SUGGESTED one that has at least 1 ballistic hp in each side torso to make it different from other variants which none have. On the other hand you suggest a variant that is basically the same as KC-0000 but with 1 ballistic hp in a side torso and ECM.

Edited by Hidirian, 07 January 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[NighthawK1337]

Peter2k, on 07 January 2017 - 02:13 AM, said:

Well going with the idea that hero mechs should be different and not better

A Hero KingCrab should probably either focus on LRM
Like launchers all on top of its behemoth roof
Like launching at a 90 degree angle ;-)

Or maybe energy based, making it energy and missile only
2 high mounted energy slots in each side torso
4 er large, or 4 PPC's with some heat quirks would be respectable, within reason
+ some backup weapons


Would I like 2 ballistic hardpoints high up in each side torso?
Sure

It would also be pay to win
the low slung ballistic hardpoints is maybe it's biggest Achilles heel keeping it in check a bit

At least the kdk-3 with all its advantages is a c-bill version

The quad oh already has 4 missiles and 4 energy. Kinda a moot point to make a 5M 5E or a 4M 6E as a Hero variant since quad oh already has enough hardpoints for it. 4 missiles seems to be the sweet spot for 4 A+LRM 10s or 4 LRM15s for Lurmcrabs. Shuffling it around so that you can use more that 4 launchers is a waste since you'll be left with so few ammo.or be forced to use smaller launchers. Although it could result into a 4 A+LRM20s build in the torsos, there'll be almost no difference to the current 4 LRM15 lurmcrab since hardpoint placement doesn't matter that much to LRM boats.


I say Energy is the way to go. 4 PPCs seems beastly, it would just need quirks.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9e2b5c88a70be3d

Huh, about 40% cooling eff, would actually be pretty sweet in stock. no ferro or endo so you can use the slots. If only all the weapons are not in a single hardpoint. If a hero has 4 PPCs in the arm then.....

RestosIII, on 06 January 2017 - 09:42 PM, said:

Okay, I'd actually like to see them somehow fitting SRM/LRM racks to the inside of the claws.

Yeah that's my other concern too why LRM hardpoints in the arm won't be cool. The 1 B hardpoint outside the claw when I run 6 AC2 already grates me.

The Kaiju seems cool though with just SRM4s in the arms.

I say my Vote would be on the Kaiju and Pulsar. hoping for an 8 ballistic hero is just bad. very. KC has no tonnage left for that, doing an Energy variant is already in the lore if I remember correctly which led to the Supernova.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 07 January 2017 - 04:26 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

NighthawK1337, on 07 January 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

The quad oh already has 4 missiles and 4 energy. Kinda a moot point to make a 5M 5E or a 4M 6E as a Hero variant since quad oh already has enough hardpoints for it. 4 missiles seems to be the sweet spot for 4 A+LRM 10s or 4 LRM15s for Lurmcrabs. Shuffling it around so that you can use more that 4 launchers is a waste since you'll be left with so few ammo.or be forced to use smaller launchers. Although it could result into a 4 A+LRM20s build in the torsos, there'll be almost no difference to the current 4 LRM15 lurmcrab since hardpoint placement doesn't matter that much to LRM boats.


I say Energy is the way to go. 4 PPCs seems beastly, it would just need quirks.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9e2b5c88a70be3d

Huh, about 40% cooling eff, would actually be pretty sweet in stock. no ferro or endo so you can use the slots. If only all the weapons are not in a single hardpoint. If a hero has 4 PPCs in the arm then.....




Yeah that's my other concern too why M hardpoints in the arm won't be cool. The 1 B hardpoint outside the claw when I run 6 AC2 already grates me.

4 missiles all on one torso really limits options, though.

Give me 2 Missile per ST, 4 AMS, ECM and 2x Energy per Arm. Make it the Anti-Dakka Krab so we can have some fracking variety.

[The6thMessenger]

Hidirian, on 07 January 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

Have you ever even piloted a KC? Cause it sounds like you never have, and if you have post your play time stats with it. I'd like to see that you know what its like to actually play one.

I don't know where this ad-hominem would lead to, but here you go. I actually mastered my king crab already. It's obvious that you're trying to delegitimize my position by pointing out flaws in me personally to avoid owning to your own criticisms, and that is just quite pathetic.

Hidirian, on 07 January 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

Yes PGI is making the game, which is why I as someone who wants a hero variant for a KC SUGGESTED one that has at least 1 ballistic hp in each side torso to make it different from other variants which none have. On the other hand you suggest a variant that is basically the same as KC-0000 but with 1 ballistic hp in a side torso and ECM.

I suggested an energy variant, energy-centric build, with an ecm to taste. It may be redistributed, but the difference in the placement of the weapons in the body is also a factor. You simply don't like it.

You on the other hand, you just suggested a ramped-up version of the king crab. It can boat 4 large IS ballistic weapons sure, but that is basically the king-crab's current theme dialed up to 11.

[Bishop Steiner]

The6thMessenger, on 07 January 2017 - 04:28 PM, said:

You on the other hand, you just suggested a ramped-up version of the king crab. It can boat 4 large IS ballistic weapons sure, but that is basically the king-crab's current theme dialed up to 11.

But it's unique and amazing...because ....well, because he said so!

And funnily enough, for mister "open discussion", every other option listed not his, he roundly shits on.... because he is not interested in an actual discussion, but just trying to get people to support his "super imaginative and original" hero idea.

I love how well that-s going for him.

[NighthawK1337]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 January 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

4 missiles all on one torso really limits options, though. Give me 2 Missile per ST, 4 AMS, ECM and 2x Energy per Arm. Make it the Anti-Dakka Krab so we can have some fracking variety.

4 AMS and ECM? I think a little overboard perhaps? 2 Missile per ST would make the KC able to fit 4 A+LRM20s but I don't think we need more LRM assaults. Especially in a paywall, since if that's the selling point, nobody but lurmers would buy it.
IMO energy works better when paired with ballistics.

I think I'd prefer your Kaiju, SRMs in the Arms or the Pulsar with Energy in the arms.




I was just catching up to this thread so let me say this:
KC don't have the tonnage for it so 8 ballistics on a hero would be such a waste of opportunity.
It's not like the DW with Clan Tech and lighter ballistics and engine, even then the Ultraviolet didn't contribute much to the DW. The 000 is as dakka as its gonna dakka get for the KC.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 07 January 2017 - 04:38 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

NighthawK1337, on 07 January 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

4 AMS and ECM? I think a little overboard perhaps? 2 Missile per ST would make the KC able to fit 4 A+LRM20s but I don't think we need more LRM assaults. Especially in a paywall, since if that's the selling point, nobody but lurmers would buy it.
IMO energy works better when paired with ballistics.

I think I'd prefer your Kaiju, SRMs in the Arms or the Pulsar with Energy in the arms.




I was just catching up to this thread so let me say this:
KC don't have the tonnage for it so 8 ballistics on a hero would be such a waste of opportunity.
It's not like the DW with Clan Tech and lighter ballistics and engine, even then the Ultraviolet didn't contribute much to the DW. The 000 is as dakka as its gonna dakka get for the KC.

I'm just listing options, and going for "different"... but I don-t really see that many LRMers, tbh, so I'm fine with some. And yeah... 4 AMS and ECM seem like overkill.... but have you ever been caught in a LRM rain in a Krab? Only targets I like more are Direwolves, when I'm LRMing.