121 replies to this topic

[Mycroft000]

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

If it's less than 0.5 tons, than it isn't much to worry about. Even then, there are some great builds I know of that are short from full tonnage by almost a full ton, but they work well. I know my Huntsmen often run less than 0.5 (more like 0.2) tons short of full, but it isn't worth stripping armor off to the nearest half ton because there often isn't anything to do with it and it's a lot of armor to take off...

I rarely find myself with any more unused tonnage than somewhere in the .1-.2 range.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

In this case here, it's actually very little armor removed for a reasonable benefit. (But still, you should have let my reasons stand. It made you look better.)(Yes, I'm poking some fun again. Don't mind me.) I'm going to guess you didn't know how helpful AP actually could be, but it can be really useful. It's one of the surprises I saw with your build that I kinda liked.

If there were slots available for it, I'd have likely gone with a TC2 instead of the 1 and the probe. That said, the benefit of detecting shut down mechs has definitely benefited me well in the past as well as the ECM countering effects; but I've played this build for so long that I never put much thought into making changes to it until the latest quirk pass, and those tests that I've done have showed me that the small lasers remain more effective.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Don't make me send some snow your way. It would only turn to rain anyway before it got there.

I've heard of snow, and rain....

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

From my experience helping new players, it's a harder lesson to learn than you may thing. Despite the warnings in mech lab (which a lot of people ignore for whatever reason), they will just wonder why they "sometimes" gain a ton of extra hear for "not apparent reason". It's actually something I feel that the energy draw system (don't know if you kept track of that) did get right. Everything was far more up front and obvious, with more ways to track what was happening and why it was happening.

I agree, and not only is energy draw more self explanatory, you can alpha strike in my build under energy draw. It would have been such a major improvement to my stats that they'd have had to done even more on the quirk pass to keep it from over performing.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

As for alpha striking...

The nap you take if you do alpha isn't actually as long as you'd think, plus you do get the benefit of the reduced overheat damage.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

As I said, Ghost heat is a concern. The range is what deters me from your build. Of course, I would like to mention that if no other proposed Champion builds are a brawler like class, than it could be good to have a brawler among the selection.

I think I've mentioned that I used to run the 12SPL build until my unitmate suggested the ERSL and it changed everything.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

T5 players probably have more to worry about LRMs than massed UAC shots. Not to mention, they may be less likely to take cover, or use the JJs (the real strength of the Nova).

I do disagree here, I think that the new players take cover to an unnecessary degree. I've had cases before where I've gone after Gauss/PPC snipers while getting rained on by 2-3 LRM boats and though I did eventually die, it wasn't until I'd already killed a KDK-3 with dual Gauss/dual PPC.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

I wont disagree with the ERMLs running hot. Any laser Nova is going to be a little warm. It was why I had made a suggestion with a more ballistic Nova. (I knew my LRM Nova wouldn't go anywhere, and I wouldn't even recommend it to new players.) Was trying to mix things up a bit.

I've probably tried the bulk of the reasonable non troll builds for the Nova and have found that on average every other load out for the Nova doesn't quite pull its weight compared to mine. Though I was surprised by your ERML/LB2X suggestion, it did fairly well for me on a couple of matches.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

It is often recommended to have at least three if not four customized and at least basiced out mechs before one steps into FP. Having a trial mech or two to fill in tonnage often isn't such a bad thing when you are starting. Not to mention, most every champion build previous was based on an old meta. It may be old, but it was still once a meta, and they normally still can hold their own as an average. They may not be new meta, or perfectly optimized anymore, but they aren't trash either for the most part.

My drop deck until recently consisted of 4 of my Nova Prime. I was dropping 50 tons light and outperforming people who brought assaults and heavies.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

I'll divulge a secret... I have a stock mech only account. I actually do very well in stock mechs. I've even brought them into FP before, and continued to do well. Sometimes, it's not what you have, it's how you use it that makes the difference. (Of course, I would not recommend such an action for the normal player.)

I've played the Stock Mech Madness Wednesdays and have found that the Nova-B is fantastic as a stock mech.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Same. I've got interest here and in the Adder thread. I voted but am not committed to the Wolfhound thread, the only other mech being on the list that I have even a little experience with. I can say, ERMLs and MLs (Clan and IS respectively) boated builds are in each of those lists... I'm starting to be worried that we are going to be ML spammed this round, which is fine for some chassis, but if all the champion mechs become that... it's going to be a boring and hard champion rotation coming...

I actually like IS medium lasers far more than C-ERMLs, specifically on one of my Warhammers running 9ML.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

I will not counter your experience. I have concerns about your build, which I've made clear. But I feel, no matter which Nova makes it, they each will be very good and strong Champion mechs. Yes, I will "fight" for the one I believe would be better in that role, but overall I think the Nova will be well off either way in the end.

I do think there is a variation on Build #2 that would be better suited to new players solely because of the heat generation and lack of skill tree adjustments(either the 6ERSL+1ERLL, or 4MPL) They both get the benefits of longer range than my build, but run cooler than the 6 mediums.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Both builds have their strengths and weaknesses. Each has merit for being a Champion mech. One considers more defensive actions and addresses to the typical stronger mid range combat style. The other is more offensive, in your face death with cooler running and harder hits if used correctly and able to get into range.

I'm not expecting mine to get the pick at this point, but I'm still going to keep fighting for it because I believe in it though. I do think that Build #2 needs one of the tweaks mentioned above before being truly new player friendly. If we give it the real long range poking capability with the ERLL and the short range brawling capability with the 6ERSL, it's basically getting the best of both options; if it were to get the 4MPL instead then it still gets the range benefits over my build but doesn't suffer quite as much from overheating.

[Dee Eight]

i THINK the only tweak #2 needs is to switch 2 or 4 of the ERML's for SPL's. They'd reduce the heat load and be more useful for close defence when you're AMS shielding anyway.

[Lily from animove]

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Do recall who it is that "must" use trial mechs.

I don't know about you personally, but (besides maybe to test them) I haven't used a trial mech in years. Once you start to own your own mechs, you honestly stop using the trials for the most part.

From there, you may see some people use trial mechs in FP (which is always not recommended anyway) to fill out their drop deck if they lack the correct tonnage mechs to finish it out. But, with the new skill system coming where you no longer would need 3 variants of the same mech, I suspect we may see even less of this. People then will just buy 4 mechs, probably one of each weight class, and be able to go with their own mechs.


So, for the most part, these champion mechs need to be looked at with brand new players in mind. So as new player friendly as possible, but while also trying to include enough build variety that they can check out different weapons and even play styles amongst all the champion mechs.

So, for example, if the Nova has 6 ERMLs, having an Adder champion/trial with 5 ERMLs I don't think will exactly do the trial system justice, and instead only shows off lasers, and of particular note the ERMLs. I feel this is another thing we should consider, but that's a lot harder to do, as now we have to cross different threads and look at all the Champion build suggestions. (Something I'm hoping PGI will do instead for us, as they decide the final choices I believe.)

I used trials on my IS secondary account who is broke as hell, also, think of people playing the game f2p not able to constantly switch mechs when they have a low and limited amount of mechbays, these people would also utilize well working champion builds to supplement their mechselection.

But if we consider emchs being doen for newbies to lern, then these mechs should not be too complicated yet they need to be able to teach newbies something. An SPL NVA is quite niche, and then we need to aks, can a newbie utilise position and map awareness well enough to make that build work? probably not. Thats why I prefer to give them a mixed build of shorts and meds, to give them more range to be useful.

mycroft000, on 30 January 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

If people commonly tried to shoot Novas' legs, I'd go along with that. But side torsos and arms are the true target on them.

And I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to putting AMS on my build, but I don't believe a defensive weapon is a good use of tonnage when new players don't yet understand how to use it(and usually don't even think it's a good idea regardless of experience).

I am glad someone is finally acknowledging that my build does run cool.

Well, the leg HP is less about gettign shot there, and more about helping the newbies to prevent scrapping their own legs by usage of JJ's.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

I thought it was there to bring up target data faster, disrupt ECM if it gets close (so you can target them easier and know where to hit), as well as continue to maintain a lock if an opponent shuts down from overheating...

Now you are telling me it's just a weight sink? And here I thought you where being effective with your builds. (Yes, I'm joking here.)



If you know about Ghost Heat and avoid it... Never said it doesn't run cool. It can run cool, or super "fry eggs on your dashboard" hot if you break Ghost Heat.

Remember my two concerns with your build. Ghost heat, and range. Everything else looks solid, and I know it is too.

And thats again the newbie vs the on who knows what he does. How many people don't even press R? so the entire gather target info faster thing isn't going to happen at all, and I have also seen a ton of people not even paying attention to the damages shown on ragdolls. So is pressing R and analysing target information truly within the newbis capabilities? I would doubt it by the things I experienced. But thats starnge because it indicates people haven't even memorised the things the academy tried to teach them. And then yes I agree, 12SPL have the danger of running into ghostheat. But then a total failsave build doesn' exist, and I think some extreme builds aren't too bad, sometimes lerning by making mistakes is the only way to improve. Thats why I would prefer another indicator showing newbies that some champion/trial mechs are harder than others. So that they choose the easier ones at the beginning and try the tougher ones later. I consider the NVA to be a mech that can utilise MANY lasers, so its point should be using this and teahcing this. a 6CERML build could also be used on many other mechs, So why waste the "training" potential of managign many weapons with choosing a 6CERML build that another chassis can teach too?

[Larsh]

Hey just checking in, and I'm surprised that the topic is still going strong here!

For the sake of brevity, and trying not repeating what's been said here, I think the original 6CERML, or the 4CMPL, is a good choice. Each one gives the range that I had in mind with this build.

Also, I use these 2 websites to calculate ghost heat in MWO, and can be a great resource for newer players:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale
http://keikun17.gith...heat_simulator/

Both Medium and Pulse will not create Ghost Heat if we decide on the builds that I've suggested here. Granted I am still partial to my 6CERML build Kind of like how mycroft's build dragged him out of the higher tiers to his current status, the 6CERML dragged me out of T3 to mid T2 once the LRMs hit hard recently.

I wish I could test these more this week, but I will out for most of the week. And might only be on during the weekend for a little bit.

[Lily from animove]

Larsh, on 31 January 2017 - 06:00 AM, said:

Hey just checking in, and I'm surprised that the topic is still going strong here!

For the sake of brevity, and trying not repeating what's been said here, I think the original 6CERML, or the 4CMPL, is a good choice. Each one gives the range that I had in mind with this build.

Also, I use these 2 websites to calculate ghost heat in MWO, and can be a great resource for newer players:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale
http://keikun17.gith...heat_simulator/

Both Medium and Pulse will not create Ghost Heat if we decide on the builds that I've suggested here. Granted I am still partial to my 6CERML build Kind of like how mycroft's build dragged him out of the higher tiers to his current status, the 6CERML dragged me out of T3 to mid T2 once the LRMs hit hard recently.

I wish I could test these more this week, but I will out for most of the week. And might only be on during the weekend for a little bit.

you can even build 12 cerml and not cause ghost heat, the trick is just to not fire them all within 0.5secs.

[Larsh]

Lily from animove, on 31 January 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

you can even build 12 cerml and not cause ghost heat, the trick is just to not fire them all within 0.5secs.

LOL exactly. I just think the newer players won't know that, or not know how to use chainfire.

[Lily from animove]

Larsh, on 31 January 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

LOL exactly. I just think the newer players won't know that, or not know how to use chainfire.

sure but when and with which build would you teach ths to them? there need to be some builds who show that, or a more intense academy tutorial.

[Larsh]

Lily from animove, on 31 January 2017 - 06:33 AM, said:

sure but when and with which build would you teach ths to them? there need to be some builds who show that, or a more intense academy tutorial.

Totally agree with you on this. I think you mentioned earlier that PGI should mark mechs as to which ones are for more "experienced" new players. Maybe even place in a selection of beginner, intermediate, and experienced. I think that was were I was stuck at when I first started playing. I just didn't know which mechs to pick. This would give them a ladder to follow so learning this game could be at a more gradual / comfortable pace.

I know I run my 6CERML with 3 on the weapon group 1, 3 on group 2, and all on group 3/4 set on chainfire.

[Mycroft000]

Chain fire is not particularly good for lasers, all it really does is spread your damage even more than burn times already do, that may be good for accumulating damage and match score, but it doesn't help them begin removing components or getting kills. Chain fire shines when it comes to ballistics or missiles though.

And the only reason I've plateaued at Tier 3 currently is that I haven't been playing my Nova on 80% of my matches lately, too many new mechs have come out and I've been working on them, and I've been trying to improve my skills as an assault pilot.

I think the suggestion of having the trial mechs be marked for skill level is absolutely fantastic.

I hadn't really even given much thought to what the other chassis builds were going to be until it was mentioned here, and the point that was made of them also using medium lasers is very good. If every trial mech is using mediums, what is there to differentiate them?

And while you can use 12ERML which is what the stock Nova Prime is, it is unbelievably hot. I do have a Prime with 8ERML because I keep trying to make it function well with the new quirks, but the truth is it just takes too long to cool down after sustained firing.

And Lily, you mention using the leg armor as buffer for jump damage, I'd call that a mild concern on the Nova but if we were talking about the Viper, yes, MAX armor on the legs, it's too easy to jump halfway off the map in it. You also make the point about the Nova being helpful for teaching Ghost Heat, and that is a very valid point. If a new player is going to stick with the game then they need to learn the weaknesses that they should be aware of as well as the strengths.

[Tesunie]

mycroft000, on 31 January 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

And the only reason I've plateaued at Tier 3 currently is that I haven't been playing my Nova on 80% of my matches lately, too many new mechs have come out and I've been working on them, and I've been trying to improve my skills as an assault pilot.

I will state, I actually don't overly care what someone's tier is when advise is being given. Just because you have a low rank (or not) isn't a sign of if you know the mechanics of the game. One can have the knowledge, but not have the skill to utilize said knowledge. (There is a reason I don't show my tier rank.)

PSR tier is mostly a personal goal. If you want to work on it, by all means. If you don't care, than that is fine. It can be a nice goal to work towards if one desires, but there can be many reasons a good (and knowledgeable) pilot can be in the lower tiers.

I wish to just commend you for trying new things. It's a game, and I always try to encourage exploration and experimentation in a game. Having more diverse skill sets never hurts. So, I wish you luck with those assaults. (Hopefully more luck than I had with them... I'm horrible in an assault!)

[Mycroft000]

I don't particularly care about PSR myself other than the quality of matches it provides. One of the big things I make a huge point of in my unit is that when we're doing FP, we DO NOT farm. This unfortunately doesn't apply in the skirmish matches, but If we have an opportunity to win decisively, we take it, we won't farm for kills if there is an objective that we can complete to win. Unfortunately the skirmish matches can force situations where it's an unbalanced match that can wildly swing in one direction or the other. It's one of the reasons I've changed my drop deck from 4 of my Nova Primes to a broad mix of mechs with different play styles.

I am glad they're in the process of reexamining how PSR is measured.

To keep this somewhat on topic, my PSR is directly related to how often I play other mechs vs Build #1. Other mechs, or other builds on the Nova, it goes down, Build #1, it generally keeps me from losing any PSR on losses, or even increasing on a loss at times.

Edit: typo

Edited by mycroft000, 31 January 2017 - 12:46 PM.

[NighthawK1337]

I (almost) exclusively use the S variant with 3 AMS (Although I prefer using 12 ERSLs too than 6 ERMLs) and I bought Overload for that exact purpose and I can testify in court if needed that that the AMS increases win chance significantly.

Hey Tina, is it possible to allow the build to add modules? the AMS experience IMO is not complete without the Overload module. (The stats are mixed with the Purifier though)

I vote for #2


I don't think newbies go Invasion or Scouting with trial mechs, so let's go with the assumption that they're going pub 95% of the time.

No ghost heat, and any veteran who piloted the Nova would've alphaed 12 Lasers accidentally at least once and know that it burns like hell so I think build #1 is too dangerous for newbies. Also the too short of range of build #1, coupled with the fact that newbies don't know the maps like the back of their hand yet makes it even harder for newbies to use effectively.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 04 February 2017 - 04:54 AM.

[Mycroft000]

NighthawK1337, on 04 February 2017 - 03:28 AM, said:

I (almost) exclusively use the S variant with 3 AMS (Although I prefer using 12 ERSLs too than 6 ERMLs) and I bought Overload for that exact purpose and I can testify in court if needed that that the AMS increases win chance significantly.

Hey Tina, is it possible to allow the build to add modules? the AMS experience IMO is not complete without the Overload module. (The stats are mixed with the Purifier though)

I vote for #2


I don't think newbies go Invasion or Scouting with trial mechs, so let's go with the assumption that they're going pub 95% of the time.

No ghost heat, and any veteran who piloted the Nova would've alphaed 12 Lasers accidentally at least once and know that it burns like hell so I think build #1 is too dangerous for newbies. Also the too short of range of build #1, coupled with the fact that newbies don't know the maps like the back of their hand yet makes it even harder for newbies to use effectively.

I don't disagree that the AMS can be helpful, but in cases where it's not being useful, it's dead weight. And no, modules wouldn't be allowed for two reasons, 1) The modules would have to be unlocked and purchased by the player, and 2)In the next few weeks modules won't exist. As for you thinking new players don't use trial mechs in FP, you're wrong, I used them when I started playing, and almost exclusively played FP until I joined a unit, and while I don't see it that often, I do still see trial mechs in FP but I couldn't say what the stats on that are since my unit mostly plays QP currently.

As for being too hot and short ranged, I won't reiterate my previous arguments again and again, but I will say that if we are going to keep Ghost Heat, and not move to Energy Draw, then new players do need to learn how it can affect their play.

Edit:

I'm doing some drops without modules(removed my Advanced Seismic, Radar Dep, ERSL Range and Cooldown) and strangely enough, I think I can get away with not using Radar Dep with the new skill tree. I'm super excited about that.

Edited by mycroft000, 06 February 2017 - 10:45 AM.

[Tesunie]

After doing a review of currently placed Clan Champion mechs in the game, this is what I've seen: UAC10s, MPLs, and LPLs.

So, in the case of the Nova being included, either currently proposed build would present something different to the medium chassis for Clan trial mech rotations. Be it in close brawling (which the Hunchback and Stormcrow kinda do now), or ERML mid range engagements (which the Stormcrow and Hunchback can kinda do, but the Shadowcat does well right now). So, either attack strategy is already covered, but the Nova would still be doing it differently.

Build #2 though offers something that currently no other Champion build presents at all, which is a strong AMS presence. It has a mid range engagement which helps to support the AMS's use in supporting the team, because by staying at a more mid ranged engagement should keep a player more with their team, rather than solo.

With this in thought, I still propose #2 over #1. #1 is a fine build and I'd have no issues if it was chosen, but build #2 presents a far more friendly build for new players by avoiding Ghost Heat chances and protects itself and teammates with it's AMS. Something that, if not desired, one can choose not to play with by selecting another trial mech of the same weight class (which would be any of the other current medium clan champions already in the game). A triple AMS is also something I don't believe any other Clan medium can do either, and is something unique to the Nova. If build #2 doesn't make it in as a trial (which, mind, I would be fine either way), we will possibly never see something like this as a possible trial mech again.


Just providing something else to consider. Overall, each would be fine additions to the trail lineup, but I do feel that Build #2 would be a better proposal overall.

[NighthawK1337]

mycroft000, on 06 February 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

I don't disagree that the AMS can be helpful, but in cases where it's not being useful, it's dead weight. And no, modules wouldn't be allowed for two reasons, 1) The modules would have to be unlocked and purchased by the player, and 2)In the next few weeks modules won't exist. As for you thinking new players don't use trial mechs in FP, you're wrong, I used them when I started playing, and almost exclusively played FP until I joined a unit, and while I don't see it that often, I do still see trial mechs in FP but I couldn't say what the stats on that are since my unit mostly plays QP currently.

As for being too hot and short ranged, I won't reiterate my previous arguments again and again, but I will say that if we are going to keep Ghost Heat, and not move to Energy Draw, then new players do need to learn how it can affect their play.

Edit:

I'm doing some drops without modules(removed my Advanced Seismic, Radar Dep, ERSL Range and Cooldown) and strangely enough, I think I can get away with not using Radar Dep with the new skill tree. I'm super excited about that.

Is this an alt account? because newbies tend to be the ones just looking for fun, not to commit to something like FP or a Unit right off the bat. Also the really really long queue times in FP turn people off which is why most newbies will most likely go pub than FP.

I did say 95%, not every single one, hell I used laser vomit TBR-C(C) quite a few times in FP when only I had 3 mechs for a drop deck. The champion build is not for specifically for veterans, but newbies, given that LRMs are constantly used, even with T1s, it's almost guaranteed that AMS will be in use at any match.

You can say that any equipment not being used as dead weight. That lasers that LRM boats rarely use when stomping Polurm Lurmlands? dead weight. Beagle Active probe but not getting close to an ECM mech to cancel it? dead weight. Yet why do we still take it? Because I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.



This is the most discussed Champion build so far given the numbers.
I guess because it presents a unique build that only the Nova and Kitfox can do.
We don't need more lazors, we already got so many of those. The 3 AMS champion is the one that's actually making a difference.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 06 February 2017 - 03:43 PM.

[Mycroft000]

NighthawK1337, on 06 February 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Is this an alt account? because newbies tend to be the ones just looking for fun, not to commit to something like FP or a Unit right off the bat. Also the really really long queue times in FP turn people off which is why most newbies will most likely go pub than FP.

I did say 95%, not every single one, hell I used laser vomit TBR-C(C) quite a few times in FP when only I had 3 mechs for a drop deck. The champion build is not for specifically for veterans, but newbies, given that LRMs are constantly used, even with T1s, it's almost guaranteed that AMS will be in use at any match.

You can say that any equipment not being used as dead weight. That lasers that LRM boats rarely use when stomping Polurm Lurmlands? dead weight. Beagle Active probe but not getting close to an ECM mech to cancel it? dead weight. Yet why do we still take it? Because I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.



This is the most discussed Champion build so far given the numbers.
I guess because it presents a unique build that only the Nova and Kitfox can do.
We don't need more lazors, we already got so many of those. The 3 AMS champion is the one that's actually making a difference.

Not an alt account, and when I started in December 2015 the faction queues weren't very long. And being one of the people drawn to the game from Battletech, I jumped into faction play immediately. Had little to no interest in the quick play modes.

And yes, if a LRM boat isn't going to get close enough to remain with the rest of the team, then may as well ditch the lasers and pack on more ammo or a faster engine(where applicable) because there's no point in having the lasers if you're not going to fire them. If you do get close enough to the rest of the team to make use of your lasers, then they're obviously not dead weight, it depends on what kind of LRM pilot you are. Active Probe has more uses than just cancelling out ECM, it also gives you increased sensor range and senses shut down mechs, so no, that I consider to be an offensive piece of equipment.

I contend that the Nova has one step further uniqueness in that it is the only mech in the game that can pile on 12 energy weapons without changing any omnipods, and if you feel the need you can pile on two more with immediately available pods. The next closest is the KDK-5 and I can't recall the last time I've seen one of those on the field. The Kit Fox can run 3x AMS and include ECM and Active Probe stock. I will concede that with stacked quirks the Nova does give 30% rate of fire boost where the Kit Fox only has 5%.

[Lily from animove]

NighthawK1337, on 06 February 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Is this an alt account? because newbies tend to be the ones just looking for fun, not to commit to something like FP or a Unit right off the bat. Also the really really long queue times in FP turn people off which is why most newbies will most likely go pub than FP.

I did say 95%, not every single one, hell I used laser vomit TBR-C(C) quite a few times in FP when only I had 3 mechs for a drop deck. The champion build is not for specifically for veterans, but newbies, given that LRMs are constantly used, even with T1s, it's almost guaranteed that AMS will be in use at any match.

You can say that any equipment not being used as dead weight. That lasers that LRM boats rarely use when stomping Polurm Lurmlands? dead weight. Beagle Active probe but not getting close to an ECM mech to cancel it? dead weight. Yet why do we still take it? Because I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.



This is the most discussed Champion build so far given the numbers.
I guess because it presents a unique build that only the Nova and Kitfox can do.
We don't need more lazors, we already got so many of those. The 3 AMS champion is the one that's actually making a difference.

It makes a difference by offering soemthing unique, but it doest makes a differentce when it's useless. We don't build a 14 flamer NVA just because it's possible. Which surely would be "unique" too. What amkes the NVA unique is to wield 2 big fists of laser volleys.

And yes newbies do go FP, just look how many are in there, and even more when FP events happen. They also tend to click on the upcoming message of reinforcements quickly, and ending in FP.

[Mycroft000]

I'm hopping into the PTS to test how these builds will work under the new skill tree.

Edit:

I still think 6 medium lasers is too hot for this build, and I have not come anywhere near close to settling on the best skills to use for this since I've only gone into the testing grounds so far. But I can take nearly a full minute off of the time to kill all 8 standing targets in Canyon Network in Build #1 over #2. That obviously doesn't take into account any of the defensive capabilities of the mech. I do think that the defensive aspects to build #2 will offer bigger benefits with the new skill tree than is currently the case, however the heat issue with the mediums is still a major factor to me.

I just ran a test of 6ML on my Nova Prime(now "mastered" under the new skill tree) and still too hot for my tastes. They generate too much heat when fired in groups and the burn time is too long for chain fire to be of much use.

The tweaks I suggested for build #2 should help it with heat issues, either the 6ersl+1erll, or 4MPL, both give the range that build #1 doesn't have, but retains the ability to brawl which is where the Nova excels.

Edited by mycroft000, 09 February 2017 - 10:47 AM.

[NighthawK1337]

Lily from animove, on 07 February 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

It makes a difference by offering soemthing unique, but it doest makes a differentce when it's useless. We don't build a 14 flamer NVA just because it's possible. Which surely would be "unique" too. What amkes the NVA unique is to wield 2 big fists of laser volleys.

And yes newbies do go FP, just look how many are in there, and even more when FP events happen. They also tend to click on the upcoming message of reinforcements quickly, and ending in FP.

It doesn't justify dismissing the build because "some" newb players use it in FP where LRMs are less in use while the majority will use it on QP where LRM is almost the king in T3-5.

12 ERSLs are technically also useless in Polurm Lurmlands in T5, basically any equipment is useless if the pilot can't use it. Looking at the alternative, 12 energy is too much for a newbie to handle. So build 2 should be picked because the goal was to provide a useful mech for newbies, 12 lasers with ghost heat that will outright kill you if you accidentally used it isn't conducive to newb play.

I don't expect a newbie properly flanking Polurm Lurmlands to get to 200m without braving the LRM rain.

I wouldn't say that 12 Energy is more unique than 3 AMS. An Executioner, Gargoyle, Stormcrow can do that too while 3 AMS is only doable with the Kitfox and Nova.

mycroft000, on 09 February 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

I'm hopping into the PTS to test how these builds will work under the new skill tree.

Edit:

I still think 6 medium lasers is too hot for this build, and I have not come anywhere near close to settling on the best skills to use for this since I've only gone into the testing grounds so far. But I can take nearly a full minute off of the time to kill all 8 standing targets in Canyon Network in Build #1 over #2. That obviously doesn't take into account any of the defensive capabilities of the mech. I do think that the defensive aspects to build #2 will offer bigger benefits with the new skill tree than is currently the case, however the heat issue with the mediums is still a major factor to me.

I just ran a test of 6ML on my Nova Prime(now "mastered" under the new skill tree) and still too hot for my tastes. They generate too much heat when fired in groups and the burn time is too long for chain fire to be of much use.

The tweaks I suggested for build #2 should help it with heat issues, either the 6ersl+1erll, or 4MPL, both give the range that build #1 doesn't have, but retains the ability to brawl which is where the Nova excels.

the 4ML would probably be better because they won't have problem mixing ranges. as long as they don't blow up with an alpha then I think the newbies will be fine.

mycroft000, on 06 February 2017 - 10:02 PM, said:

Not an alt account, and when I started in December 2015 the faction queues weren't very long. And being one of the people drawn to the game from Battletech, I jumped into faction play immediately. Had little to no interest in the quick play modes.

And yes, if a LRM boat isn't going to get close enough to remain with the rest of the team, then may as well ditch the lasers and pack on more ammo or a faster engine(where applicable) because there's no point in having the lasers if you're not going to fire them. If you do get close enough to the rest of the team to make use of your lasers, then they're obviously not dead weight, it depends on what kind of LRM pilot you are. Active Probe has more uses than just cancelling out ECM, it also gives you increased sensor range and senses shut down mechs, so no, that I consider to be an offensive piece of equipment.

I contend that the Nova has one step further uniqueness in that it is the only mech in the game that can pile on 12 energy weapons without changing any omnipods, and if you feel the need you can pile on two more with immediately available pods. The next closest is the KDK-5 and I can't recall the last time I've seen one of those on the field. The Kit Fox can run 3x AMS and include ECM and Active Probe stock. I will concede that with stacked quirks the Nova does give 30% rate of fire boost where the Kit Fox only has 5%.

BAP shutdown detection only works within 90m I think. How often do you get to use that? Even without BAP we can usually tell if the mech is shut down, the only difference is the Target Info paper doll.

The point of my post was that not backup weapons are useless but AMS is comparably situational to backup weapons. I'd sacrifice one or two heatsinks for AMS because like I said "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" Much like you'd sacrifice heatsinks for a couple of small lasers.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 10 February 2017 - 06:54 PM.

[Dee Eight]

If the skill tree goes ahead as presented... with the quirk changes in the PTS pdf files...the two NON-AMS novas above will be running hotter by the time they deliver to the game. Larsh's NVA-S on the other hand, no change at all.