186 replies to this topic

[SuomiWarder]

My top performing LRM boat is a 4x10 LRM with artemis Battlemaster. I kinda hate using an assault for a LRM boat though. On the rare times I roll it out these days I sometimes get dirty looks and snide comments.

[Tristan Winter]

Kerensky98, on 31 January 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

Ding Ding!
I was wondering when the first person to suggest an Assault Misslieboat would show up.

If you're firing from behind the front line armor is less of a concern. Plus you want decent speed to maneuver so the enemy can't use cover and you can still be less than 500m. Second line, supporting fire is the definition of medium mechs.
A Medium with 4x5 LRMs shooting from the backside of the scrum (300-500m) is usually going to still do more damage than an Assault 4x20 LRM that is constantly being left behind, shooting at 1000m, and has missile flight times so long the enemy can get a cup of coffee before ducking behind cover.

Even if you can throw 1700 points of damage into the air from the back of the map, what matters is how much damage you get on target (ideally grouped into the torsos).

What matters is... a bunch of different things. Let's be honest. There's a bunch of different factors.

If the match is very static, lack of mobility is not a big issue.
If the match is very dynamic lack of mobility is an issue.
If your team has only 1 assault mech, you don't want it to be an LRM boat. Especially if the other team has a 100 ton brawler.
If your team has 4 assault mechs, 3 of which as 100 ton brawlers, it's fine if the 4th is an LRM boat.
If the enemy team has no AMS and no ECM, and you get plenty of target locks, then 4xLRM5 is fine.
If the enemy team has loads of AMS and several ECMs, giving you small windows of opportunity, then 4xLRM15+Artemis is considerably better.
If both teams have relatively few light mechs and medium mechs and we're playing Conquest on Polar Highlands, then I would prefer an SRM Kintaro with a big engine to any medium mech LRM boat.
If we're playing Skirmish on Canyon Network, then a lack of fast medium mechs need not be an issue.

It goes on and on like this. There are many factors to consider. But generally, I find that I prefer LRM boats that can exploit small windows of opportunity to do massive damage. And this only applies to mechs that can carry 4 big LRM launchers with Artemis.

I'm not saying medium mech LRM boats are bad. Hell, even my LRM Adder has relatively good stats.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 31 January 2017 - 09:49 PM.

[Siegegun]

Kintaro Golden Boy.

[Lykaon]

Bombast, on 31 January 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

What a verbose way to say 'I disagree with you on the tonnage-to-missile ratio that is acceptable.'

Informative?

I just thought posting

"nah ya wrong" wasn't going to support a proper argument for medium weight LRM support platforms.

[naterist]

linebacker with a high mounted tag, 2 lrm15a's, and laser support weapons, and active probe. for ecm mechs that get close. combined with its speed, armour, and low profile, it can easily tear things apart.

[Lykaon]

naterist, on 31 January 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

linebacker with a high mounted tag, 2 lrm15a's, and laser support weapons, and active probe. for ecm mechs that get close. combined with its speed, armour, and low profile, it can easily tear things apart.

Looks short on ammo or something.

2 ALRM15s and an Active probe leave 6.5 tons for support weapons and Ammo.

With all that tonnage invested in LRMs I would go with at least 6 tons of ammo. Now we have .5 tons remaining and no TAG

You could maybe try 6x LRM5 (no artemis) a probe and TAG 6.5 tons ammo and a medium pulse laser. still weak on the direct fire weapons and shy on ammo but a smidge more effective use on tonnage and number of tubes. The faster cooldown on the LRM5s and the innate tighter groupings compensates a bit for dropping the artemis.

But still I wonder why I'm not building this on an Adder? 2 LRM15s (no artemis) TAG Active Probe 6 tons ammo 2 ER medium lasers (shave some armor to make up a half ton) this fits on an Adder.

Edited by Lykaon, 01 February 2017 - 12:20 AM.

[LordNothing]

best lerm boats are usually mediums with 4 or 5 lrm5s, bap, a sane amount of ammo (anything over 1200 is insane and those players should strive for better locks instead of just gambling all that ammo away on the slim chance they might hit their target), some backup weapons, and enough speed to be in the optimal position for lerming as much as possible.

but i tend to avoid full out boats and prefer lerms to be split with other weapons 1:1 by damage.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 February 2017 - 12:32 AM.

[OmniFail]

While I respect the other players in the community and in no way want to restrict other players builds. I share many of Yanlowen Cages philosophies when it comes to piloting LRM boats. The most important common ground is that I too do not want to take up a heavy or assault slot. I also am a strong believer in LRM boats having back up weapons. Getting face tanked and not being able to shoot back is pretty pathetic.

With Yanlowens philosophies in mind I to believe that the Golden Boy is a great LRM boat. I also think that the Golden Boy is the best Inner Sphere LRM boat. But the best LRM boat in my opinion is the heavily modified Clan Huntsman-Pakhet. However, with the small differences between the Pakhet and the Golden Boy its a really tough call as to which ones really the best. I guess it really comes down to play style.

Anyway here's my build. It's got some small nuances that you may have questions about. I will try to explain my thinking behind these decisions. But only if asked.





Anyways happy lurming.

Edited by OmniFail, 01 February 2017 - 12:54 AM.

[El Bandito]

OmniFail, on 01 February 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

While I respect the other players in the community and in no way want to restrict other players builds. I share many of Yanlowen Cages philosophies when it comes to piloting LRM boats. The most important common ground is that I too do not want to take up a heavy or assault slot. I also am a strong believer in LRM boats having back up weapons. Getting face tanked and not being able to shoot back is pretty pathetic.

I am more of a believer of speed > backup weapons, especially when it comes to light and medium lurmers. Which is why mechs like my lurm Adder have no back up weapons. Only reason I have those MPLs on the Golden Boy is because it has great MPL quirks, and its max engine rating is low. Similar deal with lurm HBKs.

If a light or medium lurmer ever get into a situation where they get caught by the enemy within LRM minimum range, and no teammates around to help, then it is completely their fault.

Also, Clan lurmers are blessed with pseudo IS ML that costs only 0.5 ton, so they sacrifice little in terms of back up weapons. IS lurmers have it tougher due to 2x LRM launcher weight, and small class lasers that are not worth to bring.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 February 2017 - 02:51 AM.

[Yanlowen Cage]

El Bandito, on 01 February 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

I am more of a believer of speed > backup weapons, especially when it comes to light and medium lurmers. Which is why mechs like my lurm Adder have no back up weapons. Only reason I have those MPLs on the Golden Boy is because it has great MPL quirks, and its max engine rating is low. Similar deal with lurm HBKs.

If a light or medium lurmer ever get into a situation where they get caught by the enemy within LRM minimum range, and no teammates around to help, then it is completely their fault.

Also, Clan lurmers are blessed with pseudo IS ML that costs only 0.5 ton, so they sacrifice little in terms of back up weapons. IS lurmers have it tougher due to 2x LRM launcher weight, and small class lasers that are not worth to bring.

It is my experience that those back up weapons come in very handy. Yes you can run away from many mechs in a medium with larger engine. But you can not outrun a very fast light. but you can shoot them. Also in many matches it becomes apparent that you should share your armor to help your team. Say for example to cover at the end of a match for a heavy or an assault that is badly hurt to get near the target to finish it. Also I have seen too many matches where the Missile mech runs out of ammo and become basically a non factor when they are needed the most. And yes in many matches I have actually run out of ammo, even with 1600 rounds. Did I waste a lot of rounds not hitting? yes. But on purpose. I was in a match recently. Crimson Straits. I quickly got to the top of the saddle hill. From there I could not hit mechs standing behind building. but every time they would step out I would gain lock and force them back behind the buildings. restricting thier movement. Doing this I locked down an Adder, a Warhammer, and a Marauder 2C for basically the entire match. I didn't hit alot but they didn't get across the saddle and involved in the main fight. Being in my golden boy(55 tons) I effectively isolated 190 tons of enemy force. That's huge. at the end of the match, being out of ammo I came off the hill and engage in the remaining fight with 3 medium lasers. Effectively extending my usefulness. As you can probably guess, we won.

To Omnifail
I like that mech build. Just wish it had IS lrms vs clan. The stream effect of clan missiles takes alot of sting out of the Stream/suppression concept. But overall it looks to be a very effective build. and I like that it is indeed in the medium class. How fast is it? and how is it for heat management?

As you can see from my previous posts and above statements I personally don't primarily think of a LRM mech as a death dealing damage machine. Rather it is a support, suppress, and team playing mech. That being how I view missile mechs makes the versatility of the Golden boy the perfect fit for my philosophy. And so far it has worked well for me. Due to that play style I have accumulated some high match score / damage games. But that was not my intent coming into the match.

As a final point. There are two ways of thinking on playing missile boats by people that play them. That I have found. One is passive and the other is aggressive. I prefer the aggressive approach. Get your own locks, find the lone mech and pound the hell out of it, suppress the other team, be with the charge, actively look to support your team when you can, be willing to lead a charge if need be. Yes I have led a charge in a golden boy 8). The passive, hanging back, not sharing armor, slow, high damage volley missile mechs are what I believe most people think of when they complain about useless lrm boats. So if you play with an aggressive missile boat you should notice the difference and realize that they do have a role to play in the game and they can be effective in their own way.

[El Bandito]

Yanlowen Cage, on 01 February 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

It is my experience that those back up weapons come in very handy. Yes you can run away from many mechs in a medium with larger engine. But you can not outrun a very fast light. but you can shoot them.

I prefer to leave Lights to my teammates and focus on shooting bigger target I have already locked.

[Yanlowen Cage]

El Bandito, on 01 February 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

I prefer to leave Lights to my teammates and focus on shooting bigger target I have already locked.

yes but lights often prefer to shoot you. just saying

Edited by Yanlowen Cage, 01 February 2017 - 07:10 AM.

[El Bandito]

Yanlowen Cage, on 01 February 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

yes but lights often prefer to shoot you. just saying

Not if my teammates with DF weapons do their job right.

[Yanlowen Cage]

El Bandito, on 01 February 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

Not if my teammates with DF weapons do their job right.

So your assuming that your team mates (in QP) are actually going to care if you are being shot. Maybe in FP they would. But this is just based on personal experience that no indeed your team mates don't really care that you are being shot unless they get an advantage from it. And on top of that alot of the time when I have relied on my team mates to get a light off me I wind up taking more damage than the light.

[Burke IV]

Three pages before the huntsman got a mention. I know the qp que isnt what it used to be but i found the huntsman to be easy mode (ok so maybe it the LRMs aswell). Once you learn to let go of your speed crutch you can fit even more weapons on It pleased me to be playing a mech that actually went the sort of speeds mechs are supposed to. After running HMN i started to look at smaller engine builds with a new view.

[TheBlackKnight]

As I'm just coming back to the game from Beta, I'm running a Catapult. But considering moving to the Archer now that I'm building some bank up, as you can pack on as much armor as some of the Assaults before even hitting the survivability talents..

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

2017 .. is it that hard?! well, since you're lurmin .......... *redacted*

[LordNothing]

i kind of like highlanders for this jerb. like i had this one build which was mostly lerms (50 tubes) but still had an ac20 to deal with anyone that charges at you. of course that was before newtech and you might be better with a uac10/20.

HGN-733C

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 19 May 2020 - 08:57 AM, said:

2017 .. is it that hard?! well, since you're lurmin .......... *redacted*

oh god damn it not again. if you have to dig to find a post to reply to, you are doing it wrong!

[The pessimistic optimist]

Not sure if it the "best" but it is one of my work horse mechs that always posts good numbers and performs well

https://mech.nav-alp...CPLT-C1-FOUNDER

[Johnny Slam]

Great thread! I've been running my stable of Cats to scratch my LRM itch since back and enjoying myself immensely. Otherwise been playing with the RACs and other new weapons on my other rigs for that direct fire fun. But there were so many great tips in these 3 pages that I can see I'm going to be spending on new mechs and bays today.

I run mostly ALRM5 or ALRM10s on my Cats, one nice thing for me is that it forces me to get those visual targets, so I'm more engaged and waste less rounds. As others have mentioned I like to run the LRM5s in succession to attempt to just shake the heck out of the pilots. Even if the damage isn't huge it can really set up my teammate to get in there for a kill. They are also super handy against the lights, even if I'm just dead-eye firing them to salt the ground around a flea it's not too expensive of a tactic.

Some of the tips listed here have gotten me thinking and warned me, I'm an old dude so I have a soft spot in my heart for the Archer and had planned on buying the whole range out of nostalgia, but some good warnings about the rig here.

Going to have to look at the Kintaro for sure. Great thread!