206 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 March 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

Too bad the reality as experienced by a comp level pilot and a T5 hashbrown are so completely alien to one another. It is literally flipped. On one half, precision aimed weapon systems rule the day. On the other, when nobody can aim, imprecise but self-guided weapon systems reign supreme. The amount of things that both ends of the spectrum would agree on can probably be counted on one hand.

It's the same for virtually any shooter that even tries to be competitive. What works/is good for a tightly disciplined twelve-stack comp team is effectively alien to virtually everyone else, and furthermore the degree of The LRM Problem is sharply relative to play experience.

Symmetra and her autotargeting burnbeam pistol is an unstoppable monster beast in lower-tier/quick-play Overwatch (srsly. A Symmetra that knows how to stick to brawly fights, stay away from long sightlines and force close-range confrontations can melt entire teams of derps in a single magazine, with or without her sentries), but almost completely disregarded in high-end play because a rigidly coordinated push from folks who can land Genji headshots at fifty meters just completely shuts her out. Low-end Overwatch guys figure Symmetra is an outright cheat code and cannot figure out why she hasn't been nerfed straight into the ground, while the top-end guys sit there all scornful and dismissive and a little flabberghasted, going "you turdbabies haven't figured out how to deal with Symmetra? Dude...she's, like...120% completely awful, no mobility, her turrets only work once, and her ultimate are both low-impact crap. What is physically wrong with your brains?"

Both sides are right. Both sides have folks who understand the game they're playing perfectly fine, understand the problems and what might be potential fixes, but because neither side can understand the other's position for beans, on the whole, you end up with Bishop's mentioned #batshyte ideas for fixes. 'Top-down' balancing doesn't work any better than bottom-up balancing or start-in-the-middle balancing. Game balance needs to be addressed at all times to all levels of play, which means it's factually impossible to get picture-perfect because you're effectively trying to balance multiple different games with the same set of variables.

Ultracomps simply need to realize that our variables, down here in Puglandia, are just as valid as their variables are.

[Metus regem]

JackalBeast, on 10 March 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

Where are you guys getting the additional sections?



hmmmmmmmmmm?????

slightly suspicious

That QR code says Heavy Machine Gun....

[Pariah Devalis]

Screenshot?

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 March 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

Screenshot?

Do it yourself, it's a free app to get a QR reader for an Android phone.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 10 March 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

Do it yourself, it's a free app to get a QR reader for an Android phone.

and , it's a boring white screen that simply says... heavy machine gun

[Jackal Noble]

Metus regem, on 10 March 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

That QR code says Heavy Machine Gun....

Thank you.

[1453 R]

So. Snub PPCs and HMGs conferm'd. Looks like the Sphere will (ostensibly) be better at brawling in the summer. Any bets on plasma cannons?

[Gentleman Reaper]

1453 R, on 10 March 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

So. Snub PPCs and HMGs conferm'd. Looks like the Sphere will (ostensibly) be better at brawling in the summer. Any bets on plasma cannons?

Plasma Cannon is introduced in 3069, which is the latest I imagine the timeline will go, so it's tough to say. The Clans should have a counterpart to the Plasma Rifle, even if their roles are pretty different.

[1453 R]

Gentleman Reaper, on 10 March 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Plasma Cannon is introduced in 3069, which is the latest I imagine the timeline will go, so it's tough to say. The Clans should have a counterpart to the Plasma Rifle, even if their roles are pretty different.

Ah, my bad. Yeah, had meant the Sphere thing that's basically an ammo-based PPC that napalms its targets. That thing is only moderately completely terrifying to consider the implications of.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 10 March 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

So. Snub PPCs and HMGs conferm'd. Looks like the Sphere will (ostensibly) be better at brawling in the summer. Any bets on plasma cannons?

dunno, but my Urbie is ready...... (SNPPC and 4x HMG UM-R60 confirmed!)

[Weeny Machine]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

dunno, but my Urbie is ready...... (SNPPC and 4x HMG UM-R60 confirmed!)

I will try to revive my poor Huginn. However, you should calm down until weapon stats are revealed

[Gentleman Reaper]

1453 R, on 10 March 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

Ah, my bad. Yeah, had meant the Sphere thing that's basically an ammo-based PPC that napalms its targets. That thing is only moderately completely terrifying to consider the implications of.

The IS plasma weapon is the Plasma Rifle, a 6 ton weapon which deals 10 damage with splash as well as heat, while the clans get the Plasma Cannon, a 3 ton weapon that only inflicts heat damage.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bush Hopper, on 10 March 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

I will try to revive my poor Huginn. However, you should calm down until weapon stats are revealed

Well, I can only assume HMGs will be more powerful than standard (though PGI could prove me wrong!) so while I really can only speculate on the SNPPC... my urbie already has much fun with 4 MGs... I would say it safe that 4x HMGs will be more fun..though I also expect to run out of ammo MUCH quicker.

[Wintersdark]

Any predictions (serious ones, rather than salt crusted or fluffy imaginary) on HMG and snPPC stats?

[1453 R]

Gentleman Reaper, on 10 March 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

The IS plasma weapon is the Plasma Rifle, a 6 ton weapon which deals 10 damage with splash as well as heat, while the clans get the Plasma Cannon, a 3 ton weapon that only inflicts heat damage.

Yeah that thing. Evil vicious demon-stick that it is.

Can you even imagine what could happen with a weapon that fires like a PPC, but also inflicts a set amount of heat damage? For one, plasma rifles + flamers lets you basically spike-shutdown any target you like. For two, you just kinda automatically win most brawls you get into against non-PR foes because your main DPS weapon wrecks the other guy's heat efficiency.

Ye want better weapon parity for the Sphere? Drop plasma rifles on 'em. Clan everything is hideously hot, plasma rifles will wreck their junk.

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

Any predictions (serious ones, rather than salt crusted or fluffy imaginary) on HMG and snPPC stats?

No real way to know for sure, but I'm expecting/semi-hoping the Snub PPC will have significantly shorter cycle time and lower heat than the Sphere standard PPC. Its whole schtick is being the 'short range brawly' PPC, and making it run more efficiently over a shorter range than the standard is an easy sort of low-hanging fruit option for Piranha to give it a job. Especially if the Sphere are getting numerous other PPC varieties as part of a "Clans are laser specialist, Sphere are PPC specialists" split, which would be freaking awesome. But that's pie in the sky at this point. I'd be willing to put five bucks down on the Snub PPC being lower heat/cycle time/range than the standard PPC, though.

[Weeny Machine]

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

Any predictions (serious ones, rather than salt crusted or fluffy imaginary) on HMG and snPPC stats?

I just look up the stats at Sarna to have a kind of baseline. However, when it comes to MRM the flight speed is important. I really hope they will be faster than SRMs

[Gentleman Reaper]

1453 R, on 10 March 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

Yeah that thing. Evil vicious demon-stick that it is.

Can you even imagine what could happen with a weapon that fires like a PPC, but also inflicts a set amount of heat damage? For one, plasma rifles + flamers lets you basically spike-shutdown any target you like. For two, you just kinda automatically win most brawls you get into against non-PR foes because your main DPS weapon wrecks the other guy's heat efficiency.

Ye want better weapon parity for the Sphere? Drop plasma rifles on 'em. Clan everything is hideously hot, plasma rifles will wreck their junk.

I can imagine PRs dealing 7 damage on target with 1.5 damage splash on adjacent sections, with the limitation of ammo, while still being hellishly hot, would prevent the PR from being a better PPC.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

Any predictions (serious ones, rather than salt crusted or fluffy imaginary) on HMG and snPPC stats?

Heavy Machine gun (IS):
Mass: 1 ton
Slots: 1
Damage: 0.3
Cooldown: 0.15
DPS: 2
Heat: 0
Spread: 0.35
Optimal range: 200 meters
Max range: 400 meters
Ammo per ton: 750

Heavy Machine gun (Clan):
Mass: 0.5 tons
Slots: 1
Damage: 0.3
Cooldown: 0.18
DPS: 1.67
Heat: 0
Spread: 0.4
Optimal range: 150 meters
Max range: 300 meters
Ammo per ton: 750


Snub Nose PPC (IS):
Mass: 6 tons
Slots: 2
Damage: 10
Cooldown: 4
DPS: 2.5
Heat: 9.5
HPS: 2.38
Speed: 1600
Minimum range: n/a
Optimal range: 360 meters
Max range: 900 meters

[Bishop Steiner]

Gentleman Reaper, on 10 March 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Heavy Machine gun (IS):
Mass: 1 ton
Slots: 1
Damage: 0.3
Cooldown: 0.15
DPS: 2
Heat: 0
Spread: 0.35
Optimal range: 200 meters
Max range: 400 meters
Ammo per ton: 750

Heavy Machine gun (Clan):
Mass: 0.5 tons
Slots: 1
Damage: 0.3
Cooldown: 0.18
DPS: 1.67
Heat: 0
Spread: 0.4
Optimal range: 150 meters
Max range: 300 meters
Ammo per ton: 750


Snub Nose PPC (IS):
Mass: 6 tons
Slots: 2
Damage: 10
Cooldown: 4
DPS: 2.5
Heat: 9.5
HPS: 2.38
Speed: 1600
Minimum range: n/a
Optimal range: 360 meters
Max range: 900 meters

https://mwomercs.com...w-will-it-work/

[Gentleman Reaper]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...w-will-it-work/

I actually had something like 450 to 700 meters right before I switched it and posted it here, I'll change it back to that, it looks better versus 360-900 meters.