188 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

ProfPyro, on 04 April 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

Great Caesar's ghost you're getting the LFE to bridge the durability gap. You're also getting a crapton of interesting new stuff while clans will get ridiculously hot lasers and few lighter utility tools. ATMs are the only thing that clans get that look interesting/useful.

Oh god, not another totally ignorant Clan Loyalist player...

How am "I" getting this? I play both sides, I understand what little impact LFE is actually going to have. Do you?

There are a select and I mean a VERY select few mechs that LFE is actually going to work on. LFE basically means you have to chose one of the following to sacrifice vs a IS XL mech:

• Fire Power
  
• Cooling
  
• Speed

As a result the vast majority of IS mechs, to stay competitive, will still require IS XL. This is why the vast majority of builds for IS Mechs means they need, wait for it, XL engines.


It's simple for PGI to fix. Take away the IS XL issue, remove all torso structure quirks from IS mechs. Job done, balance now achieved between IS XL and cXL. The cPPFLD issue still remains but overall, that goes a long way to resolving it.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 04 April 2017 - 11:38 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 April 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

Been a long time since I've done any FP (not that I've dropped at all recently), is dakka even prominent there? I would expect the focus to be on PPCs and lasers, which are much easier to make agile, even dependent upon that agility.

UACs are basically dead since the jam changes, for Clan side at least anyway.

Clan is now either Laser, PPFLD or outright brawl (LBX/SRM/cSPL). Laser the most prominent as most players can't PPFLD properly clan side. It requires an organised team to make use of it.

IS is super heavy on laser vom and to an extent dakka, plenty of brawl around also. Rarely see PPC/Gauss cause they suck the absolute donkey kawks for IS as there is no truly decent poptart and that IS XL issue of insta gib (eg. WHM 6R / Gauss).

I basically don't know a player that I play with regularly that doesn't IS XL their mech these days as there is no alternative if you wanna put up a fight. Only time you don't see it, Atlas or a Marauder.

About it really. I miss using cUACs in FP. They used to be a great weapon. RIP UAC10/UAC20 WHK...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 04 April 2017 - 11:46 PM.

[Appogee]

justcallme A S H, on 04 April 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

UACs are basically dead since the jam changes, for Clan side at least anyway.

I reluctantly reached the same conclusion last night, as I waited what seemed an eternity for my UAC10s to unjam on various Mechs.

I'm going to have to go back to LPLs and SPLs, I guess. It's a shame, because it actually requires less aiming skill to use lasers than the multi-shot UACs.

justcallme A S H, on 04 April 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

About it really. I miss using cUACs in FP.

I'm going to, too.

[Curccu]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 April 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Mist Lynx is going to be getting typical Light 'Mech firepower anyway with Heavy Lasers entering the fray, and it only needs three of them to hit that target. The bigger deal is the torso weaponry but, if PGI quirks the existing twin laser arms, also not a big deal. Jesus box ain't so Jesus anymore. I don't think one extra missile on the SHC is going to change anything. The only truly creepy ones are the EBJ and HBR. That's some serious payload potential.

I don't see that HBR that huge upgrade over Loyalty HBR, sure it's 6 instead of 5 torso/head E hardpoints but still

[Widowmaker1981]

Yeah this is bad. Not gamebreaking i dont think (in the sense that it will be entirely possible to be fully compettitve at the game without these), but very much pay to optimise your Omnis. Every single one of the Omnimechs here offers substantial improvements.

EBJ getting a LT B port - suddenly becomes a great dual Gauss mech, where before it was mediocre.

HBR getting a 2E RT. Not as big a deal as it would have been if the loyalty 1E port wouldnt be out for Cbills at that point, but still an optimisation for the 2LPL/3ERML build (move 1 ERML to RT for better firepower split) , and allows 2LPL/4ERML all high mounted (probably a bit too hot, but still)

Scary brawl executioner incoming too - not my thing, but its there.

I dont think the pods especially are bad for the game overall, because many of those mechs need help in one way or another, but the pods should DEFINITELY be available for Cbills, or P2W is starting to be a real accusation.

[z3a1ot]

This should not come as a surprise. PGI needs more revenue. Take Maraouder 2C or Supernova heroes, they are the best mechs hidden behind paywall. This trend might continue.

[PyckenZot]

It's P2W if there is no other free alternative. MWO has so many mechs and options that one must do his utmost best (beat the KDK) to build a P2W option. It's not because your fav chasis has a better option that requires real money that this game goes P2W,...

[radiv]

Curccu, on 05 April 2017 - 01:00 AM, said:

I don't see that HBR that huge upgrade over Loyalty HBR, sure it's 6 instead of 5 torso/head E hardpoints but still

Lol. How about the advantage of not having 60% of ur weapons in 1 torso?

[Xetelian]

OH NO! Finally a hero that is worth getting!?

Say it ain't so!


You guys really need to calm down about these pods.

[DovisKhan]

Hit the Deck, on 04 April 2017 - 04:28 PM, said:

OmniMechs Hero are inherently problematic.

Make the pods "interesting" and you face such complaints. Make them blah and only few will buy them.

well put

[Appogee]

Hit the Deck, on 04 April 2017 - 04:28 PM, said:

Make the pods "interesting" and you face such complaints. Make them blah and only few will buy them.

Or the 3rd option ... put some effort into making the game inherently better balanced so that more people want to play it on its merits, avoiding the need to go down the short-sighted ultimately non-viable P2W slippery slope.

Edited by Appogee, 05 April 2017 - 02:19 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Appogee, on 05 April 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

Or the 3rd option ... put some effort into making the game inherently better balanced so that more people want to play it on its merits, avoiding the need to go down the short-sighted ultimately non-viable P2W slippery slope.

Playing devils advocate somewhat, play =/= pay, and as a business, PGI needs people to Pay. I rather doubt they work for free, developer salaries tend to be decent - and to be honest, i doubt many people bought the last round of Clan heros, i know i didnt, because they didnt offer me anything i couldnt already do, tbh (Except the Kitfox)- and since the Hellbringer is my favourite Clan heavy, and i dont care about the 'principle of the thing' ill probably buy the Hellbringer hero (3x HBR, 1xSHC, all with 30% cbill bonuses? yes pls.)

That said, if the pods are going to be substantial improvements, they should become available for Cbills, with a delay. The early access + the Cbill variant should be enough to get people to buy them, no?

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 05 April 2017 - 02:31 AM.

[Xetelian]

I don't see the problem.

1 ballistic point on the EBJ where there wasn't one previously just makes it able to do what a JM6 can already do, or a CPLT-K2.

2 E torso for the MLX does NOT make the MLX suddenly a great mech. It is still very much a slow light with huge arms.




I'd like to see these pods available for MC or cBills but I'm not overly worried.

[Appogee]

Widowmaker1981, on 05 April 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

Playing devils advocate somewhat, play =/= pay, and as a business, PGI needs people to Pay.

People play quality, entertaining games. If a high volume of new people were attracted to play MWO, then enough of them would be buying packs, Heroes, and all the other ways that PGI can make money from a high playerbase.

Instead, PGI have not focused enough on making the game great (balanced, dynamic, with more end game substance) and are now resorting to gouging their customer base with must-have P2W variants.

Widowmaker1981, on 05 April 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

i doubt many people bought the last round of Clan heros, i know i didnt, because they didnt offer me anything i couldnt already do,

Because you are a longterm customer, and don't need any more Mechs - just like the rest of us dwindling number of long term customers making fewer and fewer purchases.

Hence the better, alternative, sustainable strategy - that they have never embraced.

Widowmaker1981, on 05 April 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

That said, if the pods are going to be substantial improvements, they should become available for Cbills, with a delay. The early access + the Cbill variant should be enough to get people to buy them, no?

Yes.

But that doesn't solve the revenue problem which is driving their behavior.

Edited by Appogee, 05 April 2017 - 03:20 AM.

[Marius Romanis]

Im still waiting to be able to get a summoner torso omnipod to be able to play the PPC summoner like the people who got the hero can, that was about 12 months ago right ????????

Oh wait, they nerfed the summoner to hell coz of that pod instead of just neg quirking the pod.

Thought I'd be able to get it for cbills 3-4 months later like everything else and im fine with that.

Mad Cat mkii 6+ months after whales get it? geegee another way their trying to get people to spend real money, delay the time to even longer before everyone else can get it.

[Deathlike]

MauttyKoray, on 04 April 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

I'm supportive of releasing CBill variants of the Hero mechs without the pattern, colors, CBill boost, etc that comes with the Hero. I think the limitation of pods being locked behind Hero variants, and in extension having Battlemech variants locked behind Hero paywalls, is bad for the game as a whole.

This was asked for back in beta. It's still unlikely to happen.

People want access to the mechs and/or its omnipods, even if the C-bill price is a little out there. Not everyone gives a flying eff when it comes to the camo or C-bill bonus... just access to the mechs that didn't involve real money.

We've already had one silly long thread about "Purifier is not P2W", despite all evidence to the contrary ("you don't own it, how would you know anything about Cute Foxes").

At this point, PGI has no shame because some people are willing to not care about it.

Can't do anything when the whales keep paying for it as "acceptance" of this behavior.

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 05 April 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

Yeah this is bad. Not gamebreaking i dont think (in the sense that it will be entirely possible to be fully compettitve at the game without these), but very much pay to optimise your Omnis. Every single one of the Omnimechs here offers substantial improvements.

EBJ getting a LT B port - suddenly becomes a great dual Gauss mech, where before it was mediocre.

HBR getting a 2E RT. Not as big a deal as it would have been if the loyalty 1E port wouldnt be out for Cbills at that point, but still an optimisation for the 2LPL/3ERML build (move 1 ERML to RT for better firepower split) , and allows 2LPL/4ERML all high mounted (probably a bit too hot, but still)

Scary brawl executioner incoming too - not my thing, but its there.

I dont think the pods especially are bad for the game overall, because many of those mechs need help in one way or another, but the pods should DEFINITELY be available for Cbills, or P2W is starting to be a real accusation.

**** the brawl Executioner. So pissed about that I don't want to hear about it. Its worthless.

I don't really think the EBJ left torso ballistic is really a huge deal. Dual Gauss by itself isn't really that impressive in this day and age, and you don't really have enough tonnage for any lasers to go with it I don't think. The HBR is definitely P2Optimize.

Frankly, I just don't see enough incentive to buy them. Its not like they can be used for the new competitive queue, and most comp leagues ban them anyway. So... I can just farm C-bills in quick play/Faction play? That kind of sucks. Ironically if they were available for c-bills (just at an exorbitant amount) I would probably pick up at least a couple now, because then I could use them in comp play.

Deathlike, on 05 April 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

This was asked for back in beta. It's still unlikely to happen.

People want access to the mechs and/or its omnipods, even if the C-bill price is a little out there. Not everyone gives a flying eff when it comes to the camo or C-bill bonus... just access to the mechs that didn't involve real money.

We've already had one silly long thread about "Purifier is not P2W", despite all evidence to the contrary ("you don't own it, how would you know anything about Cute Foxes").

At this point, PGI has no shame because some people are willing to not care about it.

Can't do anything when the whales keep paying for it as "acceptance" of this behavior.

I would still pay cash for early access/c-bill bonus rather than paying 50 million c-bills for access to the mech. If we can't use them in ranked play or competitive leagues, there isn't that much of a point to them being good.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 05 April 2017 - 07:08 AM.

[Tordin]

Give me omnipod setups for like the Mad Dog mk II in the mw4 vengeance intro and I will buy the packs including that one asap.
Though to have an entire roster of MDD MK II, all with unique chin turrets and a bit different apperance, like having higher up arms (like the Mad Cat Mk II, but still omni) THATS my wish, we are hitting the Civil War Era soon. Also its great to se lore, canon pilots for the mechs we got, nice job.
Also I DO WANT missilie hardpoints for the shadow cats LEFT torso. I want symmetry you know (and role play that SC from the intro)

[MischiefSC]

P2W isn't about top players. It's designed to cater to mediocre players who can pay cash money to pretend they're above mediocre.

Full stop.

MRBC and such don't do cash only content for comp play. Though it is good to have top performing gear when playing, the issue really is does PGI need to sell buffed gear to mediocre players so they can pretend they're better then they are by having gear that out performs what people not spending $ can get?

It's a model that hastens decline. The brown sea population is going to lose to the superior cash only content and either buy it themselves... it quit. So population starts this accelerated circular decline as those left find the cash only content becomes expectation and more and more of the declining population fades or to other games.

The alternative is steps to broaden the population and increase access to content... but that's harder.

[WarHippy]

They need to make all of the pods available for c-bills day one, and not just for hero mechs but for all omnis the day they release. The only thing a hero mech should give you is a c-bill bonus, a unique skin/paint, and if PGI is feeling particularly frisky unique geometry. Anything beyond that and you start getting into some rather murky waters that are only going to cause problems.