202 replies to this topic

[Roughneck45]

Tesunie, on 11 April 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

I've heard that line too... I don't believe it either.

Me neither.

A mech may have better hit boxes to roll damage with, but you still have to roll it in the first place lol. A good mech isn't going to teach you bad habits, the fundamentals are the same across all robots.

No matter what mech a new player starts with, its going to be a baptism of fire.

Edited by Roughneck45, 11 April 2017 - 11:31 AM.

[LMP]

Tesunie, on 11 April 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

I've heard that line too... I don't believe it either.

I wouldn't recommend the Timber not because "It's too good" but because "It's too good".
You see, the reasoning is different. With them, it's too good and won't "teach" you anything. For me, it's too good in the sense that a lot of people know enough that it is dangerous, and thus will focus it down more naturally (more people want to shoot it). If you die early, it is harder to learn how to play the game.

If a new pilot is willing to take up being a priority target, than by all means get one. It is a solid mech from everything I've heard (I still don't own one). Just realize, you are going to take a lot of incoming fire when people do see you, once they realize what you are.

That may be true in higher tiers but down in tier five I don't think it's a big problem.

[Tesunie]

LMP, on 11 April 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

That may be true in higher tiers but down in tier five I don't think it's a big problem.

You'd be surprised. Once people realize what it can do, they start to aim more for it. And I actually know some very good pilots that, for whatever reason, happen to be in T5 (or was at least).

Though, it may be less of an issue. I'll grant that.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Could try a Marauder. The 3R with the triple AC/5 build and a STD is lots of dakka, tanky (provided you shield), and not a top priority these days. Hunchies are, as said, always good starters as well.

[Xaat Xuun]

Eddie Money, on 11 April 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

I mean, I don't mind THAT much if I get fired on, I just don't want to be the "SHOOT THAT GUY FIRST!" target.

What about the Ebon Jaguar? What are the overall thoughts on that?

Ebon Jag is a very good choice, many reasons already listed.
They can cover range and mid-range very well, I don't have any for Brawl, but that's not saying they can't, just not my kind of mech for that. Maybe others have a Brawl build for the EBJ.

[Flak Kannon]

HI EM,

Welcome.


2nd line Fire Support in Clan form?


Timberwolf is screaming to be bought.


It can do it all. Can boat LRMs. Can do a bit of AutoKannons, and is great with high mounted laser hard points for peeking or ridge humping.

It has a decent speed for a 75 ton mech.

It has a variant with JJ to practice that skill.


Its an all around solid, solid mech.

I'd dump money into that mech were I me, starting all over, knowing what I know now.





Pro Tip #1. Speed can really be life. Buying Inner Sphere mechs and using STD engines in slow mechs is a cruelty I wish on NO NEW PLAYER. Speed will act an a second line of armor. A slow mech is usually a dead mech.

So ALSO consider some of the Mediums that can run 110 KPH plus.. Get in, get out, Just a thought or suggestion. Because there are NO static lines in MWO, its always a fluid race, usually to the 'right' to eat the tail of the other teams slowest mechs, heaviest mech. It happens so often I am suprised when I don't see that occur in QP.

Static, 2nd line fire support really isnt a thing in MWO usually.



70-90 kph is ok, but tough to extract from a bad position.



Enjoi

Edited by Flak Kannon, 11 April 2017 - 04:43 PM.

[Jamico]

If you're still thinking about this question, I will offer my usual advice to new players, even though I'm still kind of new myself. My first mech was the Orion, an IS mech. It's not the best mech out there, but it's not terrible. I think it's a good first mech, because of it's hardpoints. It can carry ballistics, missiles and energy weapons. This gives you an opportunity to learn a wide variety of weapons and builds. It's also a pretty good mech for following the assaults and focusing fire with them. Again, not an over-powered mech, but a good vehicle to learn in.
One more point, noticing the games you said you've played, I just want to tell you
something you may already know. Armor in this game is more like hit points than armor. You will never bounce a single shot. Even the wimpiest weapon will do damage, even if only a little. Unlike one of those other games you've played, you can't just stand there laughing while tiny mechs nibble away at you with their machine guns. You'll lose hit points that way, and it adds up. Forgive me if you already know this, just thought I'd mention it.

[Jingseng]

just remember, heavies and assualts are, with the rare exception, the front line. There pretty much is no second line (as you describe it). There just aren't enough players on a side to.

The few heavies and assaults that do/would constitute a second line, heavy fire support (like the stalker 5M, awesome 8 R/V, Highlander IIc B, Archer 5 S/W, Mad Dog A-hybrid and so forth) all rely extensively on missiles, either long or short. I guess Jaegermechs, Riflemen, Catapult K2/Jester, Linebackers would do what you want? Of those, the rifleman and linebacker are the most apt - because the rifleman lacks armor to stand up front, and the linebacker has crazy speed and so should be flanking (but then, neither would want to be where the heavies and assaults are... starting to see what I mean?)... the remainder are distinctive threats and/or should be sharing armor, particularly to survive longer. Alternatively, a mech like the Orion/Orion IIc which can kinda do a bit of everything, largely because it doesn't really know what it is or should be doing.

What it really sounds like though, is you want to be able to deal high damage and not be hit (in a trinity mmo, the dps role). That does not exist. Anyone that starts dealing dmg, especially dmg in threatening amounts, gets targeted and fired upon stat. It doesn't matter what you pilot or where you stand.

IMHO, finish out your 25 before you begin thinking about mechs to buy. In fact, I would strongly suggest more than 25 matches, on the order of 35-45 before, but to your own flavor. It really sounds like you could do with a lot more experience in MWO, and a lot less from other sources.

[Eddie Money]

If that's the case, then, and a second line support Mech as I envision it does not exist, it's better for me to gravitate towards the general style I default to, which is a brawling style. I use mostly Heavy tanks in WoT and Battleships in WoWS, so a tougher brawler would be what I work with most often in similar-ish games.

Taking fire in MWO is different from taking fire in WoT, but I can learn to work with that.

[TheFourthAlly]

Imo as your first mechs, Timberwolves might be a bit much in terms of costs though. Not just the initial investment of buying the chassis, but also kitting them out according to your wishes. The sheer amount of possibilities might bite you there, as buying weapons and omnipods starts to add up quickly. I bought them as my second set and went a bit too fast through my moderate space-bucks income there.

I was very happy people here steered me towards the IS Hunchbacks as my first owned mechs. I have the 4G, having great fun with an AC20 on that one, a 4P with 3 ER Large Lasers and the 4SP with 6SRM and ML as a brawler(ish?) variant.

I picked those builds from here: http://metamechs.com...ides/hunchback/, which was helpful for me as a beginner.

I had built up a reasonable warchest thanks to mucking about with trial mechs for quite a bit. While playing and earning XP on these three, I earned back most of what I initially spent as well.

They are mediums, so hanging around the big kids who draw a lot more fire pays off here. Nothing like a big Atlas or Kodiak to join up with and dart in and out, lobbing AC20 shells at whatever they're going for. The Hunchies seem sturdy enough to allow a wrong turn into enemy fire here or there, but you will learn not to get hit too much, which was also a bonus. STD engines are fine, so losing a Side Torso accidentally is not instant death either.

In my Timberwolves I do seem to draw a bit more fire, which can be frustrating when you're learning perhaps. They do dish out an awful lot as well, there is that.

Edited by TheFourthAlly, 11 April 2017 - 08:40 PM.

[Koniving]

Eddie Money, on 11 April 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

I mean, I don't mind THAT much if I get fired on, I just don't want to be the "SHOOT THAT GUY FIRST!" target.

What about the Ebon Jaguar? What are the overall thoughts on that?

Didn't recommend it due to the second line fire support... Also for the same reason I didn't recommend Timber Wolf or Night Gyr... Regardless of where you are, once you're in an Ebon Jaguar you're a front line target. Given the choice between squirreling after some light and attacking you, or between dealing with an assault or attacking you.. you're gonna get the brunt of their firepower every time. This is because the Ebon Jaguar, much like Marauders, Timber Wolves and Night Gyrs... is among the powerful mechs in the game.

Basically wherever you are will be the front line in an Ebon Jaguar, and as such you will be the first one there and the first one shot at. Which is fine, the Ebon Jaguar can take it well.

Edited by Koniving, 11 April 2017 - 08:46 PM.

[Koniving]

Eddie Money, on 11 April 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

If that's the case, then, and a second line support Mech as I envision it does not exist, it's better for me to gravitate towards the general style I default to, which is a brawling style. I use mostly Heavy tanks in WoT and Battleships in WoWS, so a tougher brawler would be what I work with most often in similar-ish games.

Taking fire in MWO is different from taking fire in WoT, but I can learn to work with that.

Don't let 'em get to you.. You do want to share fire, you just don't want to be at the brunt of all the fire.
Similar to this video, notice me and the other assaults are advancing and pulling back so that the focus of enemy fire changes between us. We are the front line, and behind us some second line mechs are delivering fire.

Here's another from the view of second line support in the form of a Jagermech. In this four person lance, the front line is the Atlas, accompanied by two Jagermechs on the second line, and on the last line is a Stalker loaded to the brim with missiles. Though second line we do share in taking damage, we just aren't meant to be the focus of it.

Another example with the same lance.


A second line Assault on the field

A front line assault on the field (for comparison)


Second line heavy in solo play.

[Jingseng]

Mauler, Atlas, Warhammer, Marauder, and Jaeger will be good for you on the IS side, Assault and Heavy Class.
Hunchback, Wolverine, Shadowhawk, Bushwhacker in the medium class.

Kodiak, Marauder IIc, Highlander IIc-A (i think? or maybe it was C), Night Gyr, Timber Wolf, Ebon Jaguar, Hell Bringer on the clan side, Assault and heavies. Maybe supernova? No idea on that one.
Huntsman, Stormcrow, Nova in the mediums.

[Jingseng]

@Kon - NO LET ME GET TO YOUUUUUUUUU jk. But keep in mind you are advising someone who comes from a different background, without your copious experience, on slightly more advanced and definitely coordinated tactics.

I mean, coordination in pugs is nearly an oxymoron.

In mwo, your 'role' in a match depends partly on your playstyle proclivities, but attempting to shoehorn a given mech into something it's not good at will end in tears. Salty ones for you, laughtery ones for the opponent. The role a given mech plays isn't always determined by weight class, but by capabilities. You want to do what you are strong at in a mech, what other mechs can't or don't do well.

You don't send a highlander IIc to be scout. It is big, obvious, slow, and big. And slow. Likewise, you don't send a locust lead a push. When it comes to supporting fire, you need to be able to mount weapons high and shoot indirectly - either by missiles (lrm) or mobility (poptarting with streaks/srms/er ppc/gauss). But like i said, that also paints a bullseye on your chest. You don't let snipers pick away at you all day.

In the end, some of those things to do what you want, kiiiiind of exist (but not concretely... more situationally, occasionally), but it's like telling someone which Dirt bike to get to catch the best air and pop wheelies when they are learning how to ride a bike without training wheels. Hence, I say, get some more experience under the center torso.

[Koniving]

Agreed. Though it isn't there as advice or to show tactics, simply that what he was seeking can and does exist though it may feel different from the World of games (much prefer War Thunder, it was much easier to get into despite holding very similar mechanics). There are solo versions included as well. One could even go commando and solo their way through -- but that would require the experience you described in order to pull it off.

Earlier I gave advice on second line mechs and even some comments on them. Made sure they were included.

You are absolutely correct, role is not determined by weight class but by ability.

Btw, silly goose... you send a Highlander to scout; not a Highlander IIC.

Edited by Koniving, 11 April 2017 - 09:25 PM.

[Tesunie]

Koniving, on 11 April 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

Btw, silly goose... you send a Highlander to scout; not a Highlander IIC.

No. You are both wrong. You send in an Atlas!

Well... At least if you are Steiner.

(FYI: I am joking here, and has no relevance to the game itself but to the lore behind MW.)

[Jingseng]

no you send an atlas to scout, as steiner does.

NINJAD

[Tesunie]

[Koniving]

Steiner Scout memes..

Spoiler

(Note: Marik does use vehicles to scout; but that's an 80 ton anti-mech twin AC/20 tank that usually shreds mechs in seconds. And not a scout.) (The Davion mech is the Unseen version of the Locust before the redesign that doesn't involve copyright infringement issues).


Actual quote.



To note: The Steiner Scout Lance is a derogatory joke targeting three undeniable facts: Steiners are filthy freaking rich. Steiners love assault mechs. Steiner commanders are usually incompetent rich people who bought their rank rather than earning it through genuine tactical knowhow.

PGI jumped into the joke too, btw...

Real Steiner scout lances usually include Commandos and Zeus or Banshees....and an Atlas, not four.

Side note: The Liao Atlas video earlier is half of a Steiner scout lance, two Atlases 'scouting' out the enemy.

Edited by Koniving, 11 April 2017 - 09:47 PM.

[Eddie Money]

If that's the case, and second line is a role that requires coordination and a lot of experience for this game, then I should perhaps go back to my default role of brawling in big bruisers like I normally do in games.

In that regard, any suggestions? Jingseng listed a lot but... well, it's a lot.