164 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

Tarogato, on 12 April 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

But again the best variant of a chassis will be the non-canon variant. That makes me sad. =[

I would have preferred they kept it in the ST, and ditto on the IFR-P. But eh... they fixed the pay-2-optimise problem, so I'll shut up now.

I can see why you might care. I don't. Making more mechs work and be more interesting is much much more important to me. Also, I'm not completely sold that'll be true. 6E vs 5E and ECM may be an interesting choice.

LikeUntoBuddha, on 12 April 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

I prefer Airstrikes for my 40K. A lot of UAVs do not last for long.

Well, for me it depends on the mchs, but: UAVs don't have to last long to matter, actually. A well-placed one that lights up the enemy team and gets your team focused on them has turned many a PUG (and more serious, for that matter) match.

Edited by TercieI, 13 April 2017 - 08:35 AM.

[Lehmund]

suffocater, on 12 April 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Maybe they did. I didn't see it as a real P2W, because the game itself is too complicated to just win by playing a certain mech, but I am still happy to get even more omnipod-variantions, one way or the other. Are you not?

Me either. The heros were really not P2W as you say. People always freak out if they min-max. I'm also all for additional options in mechs too. More omnipods to play with, why not?

HOWEVER, these heros now I only bought for the c-Bill boost. That was not my purpose. Got plenty of c-Bills. I bought them because they provided me with some interesting options on those specific chassis that I use (I didn't buy them all). Now because they are releasing new c-bill variants at the same time, I feel like perhaps I should have kept my money and went for the c-bill variants instead (and save cash). They are in some ways quite equivalent to the Heros (torso mounted hardpoints where there were none before for example (MLX, GAR)....

I could get a refund and wait for the c-Bill variants I suppose..... The heros I bought are just not that special or "heroic" anymore....

A Way, way better way to have dealt with this was:
- to offer HERO OMNIPODs for MC. Makes it accessible to everyone because small amounts of MC are easy to come by.
- release new c-bill variants of the mechs LATER on after we've had a shot to play around with our new special Hero mechs for a while. They just aren't very special anymore are they?

My 2 cents.

[Trev Firestorm]

W E N D I G O, on 13 April 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

This crap really gets me going. Same people who cried the loudest always do for new maps or what they call "real content" which are not new Mechs in their opinion. Now how would PGI hire new staff to improve their production volume? With your acknowledging forum posts and shoulder pats? No, but by selling stuff to people who are true and dedicated supporters of the game who are willing to pay. Now, there are people that cried out loud because of one or another hardpoint and PGI devalues the stuff they want to sell - as if those three Mechs would have been suddenly be OP META always win automatics.

This is a false equality. Maps/modes are a required expense that helps build, engage, and retain player/customer base where mech packs generate direct revenue from that player/customer base.

[Aria Wolfe]

Trev Firestorm, on 13 April 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

This is a false equality. Maps/modes are a required expense that helps build, engage, and retain player/customer base where mech packs generate direct revenue from that player/customer base.

Agreed! The revenue generated from players like us that enjoy a different mech, or preorder mech packs continue to support new/revised maps and modes. It's not pay to win, it's pay to help the 'cheapskates' (to use Russ's description) have new, fun content.

Now they have made it so we don't have to ever buy anything again, just grind. Until PGI runs out of revenue, or introduces advertising before every match! (like ads on youtube, but no 'skip ad' button). Now that's an alternative for the folks that believe these heroes were P2W. ADS, ADS, ADS, make it happen PGI!
bwahahahaha

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

For anyone wondering if we pay-2-optimize whiners were gonna cough up the dough as a response.

I just bought 5 hero mechs and pre-ordered a Cougar pack.

[Scout Derek]

Thank you for listening to us PGI. This is what I, no, what we want. We like seeing these changes.

Looking forward to seeing more changes coming on per request of the community.

<o

[Vanguard319]

Just looked at the loadout for the MLX-G, Though it wasn't listed in the civil war tech, I'm wondering if Machine gun arrays are being included.

[Lunaya]

I think some of the changes are silly, I thought the 4 missile hardpoints on the Executioner would be fine.

[color=#00FFFF]" In particular, some in the community have expressed issues with specific cases where a new Clan Hero is introducing entirely new Loadout capabilities not shared by standard variants attainable with C-Bills."[/color]

Want to quote this directly here, The Jester and Butterbee have capabilties no other Catapult has. The Anansi Spider hac capabilities none of the other spiders have. These are not attainable by C-bills. Oxide loses jump but oh my, it can mount 4 missile launchers, that is more than any other jenner or IS light mech (Until the lighter Javelin comes out, and I am choosing to not really think about the 3M locust...yes it has 4 harpoints for missiles but my lord.)

The Purifier for Clans added capabilities that the Kitfox could not do? Should we remove those hardpoints, but make sure you take the extras for those IS Hero's to. Lets just make all the mechs the same thing and not have any difference in any of them.

The purpose of Hero mechs was to be different, but also be balanced. I know balance is not easy but stripping them down so they do not do anything unique from C-bill variants mostly is just bleh. I contemplated the Executioner and now I am not even going to bother. (And I am a guy who bought the Hero Wolverine, let that sink in.). Maybe could have kept a 2 Missile torso and a 1 missile instead of two 2M to give it something a bit more unique. Yes I know doesn't do missiles in the torso but I would rather have 2 or 3 energy over 1 missile.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad you guys are taking some feedback and even applying it. And I know with the new skill tree that is coming (Soon hopefully, I am sitting here waiting for it mostly) and the weapons in Mid year, it is even harder to balance but there is now only 1 hero I have even slightest interest in. I don't do comp, I mostly just mess around at this point and do silly builds for the fun of it. I may, and only maybe get the Ice Ferret because I have an Idea of Lolz for it.

But to summerize because I probably ADD wandered a bit, Hero's are supposed to be a bit different, most always had abilities the non-hero's didn't but were still mostly within balance. I can see some of the things being needed to change but not as...severe? Hell I would actually rather for the EXE hero have both missile hardpoints in the left torso if I only had to take 2.

Other than that thank you guys for your work, things are starting to get better but I am just a salty angry person.

Edited by Lunaya, 13 April 2017 - 12:17 PM.

[BEARDOOM]

Who will by [color="#ffa500"]Executioner hero now?[/color]

[Sniper09121986]

Seems like I came up with the solution for Ice Ferret problem.

Sniper09121986, on 13 April 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Now, I would like to elaborate on that. First, let us consider the opponent's perspective. You can only run one mech at a time, so the LT omnipod availability really matters only in FP. If that omnipod was available for cbills you would see no more Ferrets than you would if a player bought 2-4 Ferrets-P and stuffed them with ECM. And he would not even have to level them up separately.

From an owner's point of view it makes the P variant the one and only Ferret worth having which nullifies all progress made with existing Ferrets. Now what if I have an invasion cbill earning variant and feel no desire to pay once more, for a functional hero this time? So I say give the Ferret its LT for ECM for cbills that would compete with missile LT from another variant, just as it was dome with that Hellbringer 2E RT. Everybody wins!

[Mcgral18]

Sniper09121986, on 13 April 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

Seems like I came up with the solution for Ice Ferret problem.

Personally, I like more guns than ECM
The not-Primes allow for an extra CT laser, instead of ECM

Making the Hero have the ECM LT means, again, the Hero is more powerful, because it can then take 6 Lasers (not on the Hero CT, but the Hero Pod) AND ECM

Which removes the trade off, and is again pure upgrade.

[TercieI]

Sniper09121986, on 13 April 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

Seems like I came up with the solution for Ice Ferret problem.

Mcgral18, on 13 April 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

Personally, I like more guns than ECM
The not-Primes allow for an extra CT laser, instead of ECM

Making the Hero have the ECM LT means, again, the Hero is more powerful, because it can then take 6 Lasers (not on the Hero CT, but the Hero Pod) AND ECM

Which removes the trade off, and is again pure upgrade.

Reminds me of when the ACH was new and there was real choice between 6SPL/ECM and 7SPL. I think having to choose between 5E/ECM and 6E has the potential to be very interesting. Poor IFR-Prime still got no reason to live, though.

[Mcgral18]

TercieI, on 13 April 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Reminds me of when the ACH was new and there was real choice between 6SPL/ECM and 7SPL. I think having to choose between 5E/ECM and 6E has the potential to be very interesting. Poor IFR-Prime still got no reason to live, though.

Well, 5 HML might be neat
He can do that with 16 heatsinks



Or woefully inadequate cooling, but HMLs need 2 slots, so can't fit in the CT regardless

[Calbearpig]

So, the Mad Dog can't have high mount ST ballistics when it's a low tier 60 tonner that is infamous for its ability to lose both STs before its CT, but somehow this is ok for the EBJ? PGI plz. Unnerf the goddamn mad dog.

Edited by Calbearpig, 13 April 2017 - 01:32 PM.

[Fox the Apprentice]

Aria Wolfe, on 13 April 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

Agreed! The revenue generated from players like us that enjoy a different mech, or preorder mech packs continue to support new/revised maps and modes. It's not pay to win, it's pay to help the 'cheapskates' (to use Russ's description) have new, fun content.

Now they have made it so we don't have to ever buy anything again, just grind. Until PGI runs out of revenue, or introduces advertising before every match! (like ads on youtube, but no 'skip ad' button). Now that's an alternative for the folks that believe these heroes were P2W. ADS, ADS, ADS, make it happen PGI!
bwahahahaha

Went a bit heavy on the doom prophet juice this morning?
I'll still be pre-ordering mechs. After speaking with the few friends I have that play MWO, I can verify that I'm not alone.

Edited by Fox the Apprentice, 13 April 2017 - 01:51 PM.

[Tarogato]

Calbearpig, on 13 April 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

So, the Mad Dog can't have high mount ST ballistics when it's a low tier 60 tonner that is infamous for its ability to lose both STs before its CT, but somehow this is ok for the EBJ? PGI plz. Unnerf the goddamn mad dog.

I don't know what MWO you're playing, but in the one I'm playing, the MDD is one of the better heavies in the game. I've played it with SRM36, I've played it with SRM24+5SPL, I've played it with gauss+2PPC, and I've played it with dual UAC10. The STs are huge and fall off easily... if you torso twist too much. It's one of the few mechs that actually benefit from face-tanking a bit, and when handled properly, it can tank more damage than a Timber. (once you lose a side, it does shield very well).

[Felicitatem Parco]

Fox the Apprentice, on 13 April 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Went a bit heavy on the doom prophet juice this morning?
I'll still be pre-ordering mechs. After speaking with the few friends I have that play MWO, I can verify that I'm not alone.

I actually held back from ordering any of the wave II hero's because I found a few blatant examples of Omnipods flatly obsoleting the free versions. Now I bought sum heeroz, seeing the very nice resolution to the situation.

[NocturnalBeast]

The way hero Mechs should be handled from now on should be to immediately release a "basic version " (no special camo, no C-Bill bonus) for C-Bills and simultaneously release a "hero bundle" (basic version + special camo + C-Bill bonus) for MC. No more Mechs for cash or MC only released ahead of C-BILL variants. The C-Bill bonus would be attached to the camo and would only work when that camo is equipped. This would make everyone happy.

Edited by Ed Steele, 13 April 2017 - 03:10 PM.

[Mistriever]

Well, at least the changes mean I'll save a few bucks not buying hero variants that offer nothing over available for C-bill variants.

[Winther]

I am also pleased by these changes/have bought a Hero in response. Still waiting on the name correction for the Hellbringer, though

Edited by Winther, 13 April 2017 - 08:07 PM.