190 replies to this topic

[Commander A9]

[Lemme condense this a little bit]

Are we suggesting that "smashing pugs" does not equate to 'playing the game?' It happens, especially when pugs use their drop zone as a firing platform. When that happens, we're going to storm up there and slaughter people rather than waiting in open ground to get LRM'ed to death. Do you expect us to do otherwise?

Units are not in the business of changing their playstyle to accommodate their enemy. That will never happen, especially out of concern for "making the enemy feel bad."

What I want is for people to stop penning the big teams as evil and the enemy of the game mode for the simple fact that the big teams win.

People who are part of units do their utmost to benefit their unit-that really is part of the job. They play the mode as it was designed by PGI, use all of the tools at their disposal, and work very hard to win.

If you wanted to discuss on a personal level, I can tell you that working as a member of a unit to win is extremely fun for me. Who I fight is irrelevant.

The units are not responsible for the mistakes made by their opposition anymore than they are responsible for getting people to play Community Warfare. Granted, the presence of a unit consistently defeating certain players may be a force which motivates someone to otherwise not play Community Warfare-because honestly who likes getting their *** bruised all the time?-but the responsibility of getting people to play Community Warfare does not rest with the player-it rests with PGI. This is what they are paid real money to do.

I need not go into yet again detail about why the big teams are good at what they do. Proof of their performance is in the game leaderboards and Tukayyid III's results.

In the end, how you choose to engage the enemy is your own choice. My teams take planets in the manner they so choose based on the way the game was designed, and I'm proud of that. I will apologize for nothing-I will make no excuses and I need not justify my behavior. Proof of my abilities and the capabilities of my teams is clearly on the leaderboards.

Be so warned-I will not show mercy to any enemy at any time, and I expect no mercy from him. I will come at you with fangs beared. I will make no excuse otherwise. I will follow my drop commander's orders, and if he says 'massacre every single one of them,' or 'camp the drop zone,' I'm not going to question him because following orders is what is going to help us win!

My objective is to win-that is how I enjoy Community Warfare.

So in the end, here's my advice, to everyone.

If you lose, don't blame your enemy, PGI, the game mechanics, the map, or the attitudes of your opposition. Take responsibility for your failure, and fix what went wrong. The units do. Now it's your turn. If you can't handle that kind of responsibility, then get out of my way because I'm coming straight at you with intent to decimate that mech out from under you.

Welcome to Community Warfare.

Edited by Commander A9, 26 May 2017 - 11:14 PM.

[ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants]

Monkey Lover, on 26 May 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

..... This is how we took planets back when it mattered.

You just completely invalidated all your arguments.

/thread

[Monkey Lover]

ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants, on 27 May 2017 - 01:53 AM, said:

You just completely invalidated all your arguments.

/thread

You're right have fun with your dead mode im done.

[Commander A9]

Clans and Units grow stronger only with success.

The old and Solahma are replaced by new and younger blood to keep the Clan sharp.

The same is true for sports teams, corporations, and, yes, Mechwarrior.

[MischiefSC]

The mode is not dead because it's not pug friendly. Turning the mode into QP isn't "fixing" it, it's just killing it off and putting the content into QP. It's dead because of the same reason units left years ago - no depth, no purpose. It was always designed for units and to reward them for fighting in coordinated groups over planets. Planets and factions had little value, now no value. PGI is slowly turning FW into new QP maps/modes. May as well pull the trigger.

Just realize that it will still have stomps and spawncamping.

[Monkey Lover]

MischiefSC, on 27 May 2017 - 03:10 PM, said:

The mode is not dead because it's not pug friendly. Turning the mode into QP isn't "fixing" it, it's just killing it off and putting the content into QP. It's dead because of the same reason units left years ago - no depth, no purpose. It was always designed for units and to reward them for fighting in coordinated groups over planets. Planets and factions had little value, now no value. PGI is slowly turning FW into new QP maps/modes. May as well pull the trigger.

Just realize that it will still have stomps and spawncamping.

There is even less depth and purpose in quickplay and group q but these are still populated.
Look at group q, you have to make a group, there is limits on mechs you can take and its a pain yet finding matches here is no problem.

I would agree adding some real depth would help but i dont think it would fix the problem.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 27 May 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[Pat Kell]

Monkey Lover, on 27 May 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

You're right have fun with your dead mode im done.

As much as I would like too, My unit nor any other unit can take credit for killing off this game mode (which is essentially what you are implying with this statement). I didn't block anyone from playing this made. I didn't cheat or do anything against the CoC either. People decided to play this mode in the fashion that they felt would be the most fun for them and for some of them, it didn't work out too well. Instead of setting another goal or finding another way to find fun in the game mode, they quit playing it. I didn't make that decision for them nor did any other unit. They made it. That is the simple end of this discussion.

Don't tell me what my responsibility should be because quite frankly you don't have that right. I set my responsibility and PGI sets the terms for allowing me to play this game. As long as I follow those rules, the rest is up to me, just like it is for you. This isn't a freaking village, we are not responsible for other peoples "fun" time, they need to go and find it for themselves and stop blaming me or anyone else for their inability to have fun.

I will give you a perfect example, we ran into a pretty good team last night but still a team that I felt we could beat. They played extremely well and ended up beating us. Lots of the people in our group had fun because it was a hard fought match but I didn't have much fun because we lost. Now, I could have quit...but instead I chose to figure out what went wrong and make some changes to what we were going to do if we ran into them again in the hopes that we would win...Sometimes this is a short process and requires just minor tweaks, other times it takes a complete rethinking of your strategy, builds playstyle etc but if you refuse to go through it, the only 2 options you have left is to quit or continue losing. None of these things are my responsibility when it comes to other people, just mine and mine alone. Claiming that I have some responsibility to make sure that people have fun or don't quit playing is asking something of me that I do not have the power to do. I can't make someone who expects others to provide them fun, have fun. The moment I do what they ask, they ask for something more, I do that and they ask for more and on and on until I end up quitting out of complete frustration. I will not do this and you are incapable of making feel guilty for choosing not to be a part of that self-destructive cycle. In fact, I am getting a little pissed off that you think you have the right to even try to make me feel guilty for causing any of this. What is happening here is a direct result of the type of thinking that you are trying to use on me...claiming that I am somehow responsible for the well being of others that I don't even really know. That is nonsense, self destructive and I reject it whole heartedly and with as much gusto as I can muster.

[Monkey Lover]

Pat Kell, on 27 May 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

As much as I would like too, My unit nor any other unit can take credit for killing off this game mode (which is essentially what you are implying with this statement). I didn't block anyone from playing this made. I didn't cheat or do anything against the CoC either. People decided to play this mode in the fashion that they felt would be the most fun for them and for some of them, it didn't work out too well. Instead of setting another goal or finding another way to find fun in the game mode, they quit playing it. I didn't make that decision for them nor did any other unit. They made it. That is the simple end of this discussion.

Don't tell me what my responsibility should be because quite frankly you don't have that right. I set my responsibility and PGI sets the terms for allowing me to play this game. As long as I follow those rules, the rest is up to me, just like it is for you. This isn't a freaking village, we are not responsible for other peoples "fun" time, they need to go and find it for themselves and stop blaming me or anyone else for their inability to have fun.

I will give you a perfect example, we ran into a pretty good team last night but still a team that I felt we could beat. They played extremely well and ended up beating us. Lots of the people in our group had fun because it was a hard fought match but I didn't have much fun because we lost. Now, I could have quit...but instead I chose to figure out what went wrong and make some changes to what we were going to do if we ran into them again in the hopes that we would win...Sometimes this is a short process and requires just minor tweaks, other times it takes a complete rethinking of your strategy, builds playstyle etc but if you refuse to go through it, the only 2 options you have left is to quit or continue losing. None of these things are my responsibility when it comes to other people, just mine and mine alone. Claiming that I have some responsibility to make sure that people have fun or don't quit playing is asking something of me that I do not have the power to do. I can't make someone who expects others to provide them fun, have fun. The moment I do what they ask, they ask for something more, I do that and they ask for more and on and on until I end up quitting out of complete frustration. I will not do this and you are incapable of making feel guilty for choosing not to be a part of that self-destructive cycle. In fact, I am getting a little pissed off that you think you have the right to even try to make me feel guilty for causing any of this. What is happening here is a direct result of the type of thinking that you are trying to use on me...claiming that I am somehow responsible for the well being of others that I don't even really know. That is nonsense, self destructive and I reject it whole heartedly and with as much gusto as I can muster.

If you want to keep smashing pugs then do it. I dont care I dont even play cw anymore. Im just telling you what happens and what i have seen over the years .If people dont have fun they leave its as simple as that. If you want to blame everyone else thats fine with me. Just dont cry on here about not finding games.

[Pat Kell]

Monkey Lover, on 27 May 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

If you want to keep smashing pugs then do it. I dont care I dont even play cw anymore. Im just telling you what happens and what i have seen over the years .If people dont have fun they leave its as simple as that. If you want to blame everyone else thats fine with me. Just dont cry on here about not finding games.

I don't cry about not finding games. I also don't want to continue smashing pugs but this is one area that I literally am given no say in the matter. I fight whoever they match us up against and one thing I am not going to do is pull back some just because it's a disorganized team. That is there fault not mine and I am not going to allow them to try to force the consequences of their decision on to me. Nor will I allow you to do it.

I find it funny that I have been playing CW almost exclusively since it first came out and the conclusions we come to differ so greatly. We saw the same things, people quitting in large numbers yet you think that the blame lies at the feet (to some degree) of big units that haven't adapted their play style to help ensure solo players have fun and I say that the responsibility lies at the feet of the people choosing to quit a game mode because they didn't have fun and couldn't be bothered to figure out how to actually have fun in a way that was viable. Seems like we are at an impasse so I guess I will just say lets agree to disagree and I will be on my merry.

Edited by Pat Kell, 27 May 2017 - 03:53 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Monkey Lover, on 27 May 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

There is even less depth and purpose in quickplay and group q but these are still populated.
Look at group q, you have to make a group, there is limits on mechs you can take and its a pain yet finding matches here is no problem.

I would agree adding some real depth would help but i dont think it would fix the problem.

Group queue doesn't really have mote people. Just it doesn't have to split IS/Clan. Not enough people in group queue to do MM even most nights when I've played it I see the same people again and again - more than I do in FW. With FW however if there's more Clan than IS wait times are longer. It can't mix/match to build lobbies.

[naterist]

Pat Kell, on 27 May 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't cry about not finding games. I also don't want to continue smashing pugs but this is one area that I literally am given no say in the matter. I fight whoever they match us up against and one thing I am not going to do is pull back some just because it's a disorganized team. That is there fault not mine and I am not going to allow them to try to force the consequences of their decision on to me. Nor will I allow you to do it.

ey, i feel like a pug que would alleviate many of these issues.

and for the record, kcom is a pretty chill unit. make an alt and go play with them, its interesting, and informative. they arent the problem, the lack of a matchmaker or built in system is letting a lot of problems grow worse and worse. i mean, the solution doesnt even need to be a skill based matchmaker, but as covered in many threads, its a perfect storm of disaster when you got all these incentives to play fw, regardless of skill or group size, yet theres no built in system for dealing with the people who arent ready for it, beyond a worthless popup most pugs probably dont even bother reading. i mean just making that a REPEATING popup would be at least something.

[sycocys]

So if we just want to generalize it -

Pugs don't like CW.

Units do like CW.

-- Seems like there's probably a simple solution to this to keep people from entering a game mode they don't like.

[MischiefSC]

Pat Kell, on 27 May 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't cry about not finding games. I also don't want to continue smashing pugs but this is one area that I literally am given no say in the matter. I fight whoever they match us up against and one thing I am not going to do is pull back some just because it's a disorganized team. That is there fault not mine and I am not going to allow them to try to force the consequences of their decision on to me. Nor will I allow you to do it.

I find it funny that I have been playing CW almost exclusively since it first came out and the conclusions we come to differ so greatly. We saw the same things, people quitting in large numbers yet you think that the blame lies at the feet (to some degree) of big units that haven't adapted their play style to help ensure solo players have fun and I say that the responsibility lies at the feet of the people choosing to quit a game mode because they didn't have fun and couldn't be bothered to figure out how to actually have fun in a way that was viable. Seems like we are at an impasse so I guess I will just say lets agree to disagree and I will be on my merry.

I do think it's interesting that even someone who's never played with KCom on TS still recognizes the efficacy of just blaming you for whatever is wrong. Even if there's no way it would be your fault. It's a good system, tried and true and it does my heart good to see it applied outside of our TS.

Oh, and thanks for ruining FW for everyone, Pat. If you read the little disclaimer when you started FW you would know that you're responsible for taking the emotional temperature of every pug in the game and that if anyone isn't doing well you're obligated to carry them and make them feel good about themselves.

Clearly you need to carry harder.

[Daidachi]

MischiefSC, on 27 May 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

I do think it's interesting that even someone who's never played with KCom on TS still recognizes the efficacy of just blaming you for whatever is wrong. Even if there's no way it would be your fault. It's a good system, tried and true and it does my heart good to see it applied outside of our TS.

Oh, and thanks for ruining FW for everyone, Pat. If you read the little disclaimer when you started FW you would know that you're responsible for taking the emotional temperature of every pug in the game and that if anyone isn't doing well you're obligated to carry them and make them feel good about themselves.

Clearly you need to carry harder.

Show me on the Ash shaped doll where Pat touched you Mischief.

[MischiefSC]

Daidachi, on 27 May 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Show me on the Ash shaped doll where Pat touched you Mischief.

Ash wishes.

Actually I'm the one who TKs Pat. I just did it tonight in fact. Double UAC20 bad touching. Admittedly I pretty much have to TK him if I want to rock high damage and kills. Otherwise I'm usually hustling just to get a few assists.

[Commander A9]

Just another night at KCom of fragging the boss as an excuse to contribute to the coffers!

Does anyone not yet realize that we have no control over who we fight?

It's not like we can cherry-pick our enemy anymore than our enemy can tell who they're fighting against in the lobby.

It's like this: When you click "Fight Now," you consent to engaging the enemy who is cued up against you. We didn't force you to click that button. You did it to yourself.

You want to know what makes us tick? I got an idea.

Come drop with us. What do you have to lose by dropping alongside our unit and seeing firsthand how we operate?

Teamspeak Address: na1.mech-connect.net

Edited by Commander A9, 27 May 2017 - 08:24 PM.

[Fake News]

you know why i don't care about pug stomps?
I see the same damned idiots bringing **** mechs and lrm builds to cw.
their own fault. i consider it a service to this community to make the experience as unpleasant for said pug tard so that he/she gets gud or goes back to quickplay

[Daidachi]

ebolachan, on 27 May 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

you know why i don't care about pug stomps?
I see the same damned idiots bringing **** mechs and lrm builds to cw.
their own fault. i consider it a service to this community to make the experience as unpleasant for said pug tard so that he/she gets gud or goes back to quickplay

The thing is, this is actually a pretty supportive community overall for players who are willing to listen, or alter their builds to fit in with teams.

It's the bad apples who want to play a single player campaign, but aren't willing to accept that that isn't what they're playing that are an issue.

For them, I hope that MW5 gives them the experience they are after, so that the rest of us can continue to enjoy playing a team based shooter that isn't enslaved to the lore, or the desire of how 12 individuals want to play, as opposed to two teams.

[Kirito Kerenksy]

I see that the whole Name-and-shame rule is never enforced unless someone cries to the mods about it. Explains why so many threads bashing units can have such prevalence.

I on the other hand have enjoyed the times where I've run into Kcom because it gives me the chance to really practice my brawling and trading since my enemies actually torso twist and can hit me.

See you on the battlefield!

(Plus when the pugs get salty I get to read them stories)

[ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants]

Monkey Lover, on 27 May 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

You're right have fun with your dead mode im done.

....but... you said... you were done........