330 replies to this topic

[Ten Roos]

Kubernetes, on 08 May 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

Why would you think I was trolling? I'm serious. We switch from IS to Clan and back every three weeks or so. Our WLR and KDR are almost the same. I would say a majority of our pilots prefer driving IS.

Yes, you should bring Battlemasters, Grasshoppers, and Warhammers. Other mechs work for different situations, like dakka for hot maps, or builds for brawls. Griffins and Shadowhawks are a match for any Clan 50-tonner. Warhammers and Grasshoppers can go toe-to-toe with Ebon Jags and Hellbringers. I still sometimes bring Jagers, Riflemen, Quickdraws, Marauders, etcs. The Cicada 2B is a match for anything plus or minus five tons. The Locust and Spider are still strong. Recently I've thrown a Phoenix Hawk 1B into the mix and it has killed it on maps like Alpine. When it comes to FW there are competitive IS builds for every map and mode.

I agree.. but you were saying BM should bring 6 ERLL in the previous post. A BM with only ERLL. Thats like saying Assaults should only have LRMS... again seriously?? And that was the best example you could come up with to refute the poster you were responding to. That is why I said you were trolling, Yes I do run 5 ERLL in my Thunderbolt now and then... but BM... come on.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Templar Dane, on 08 May 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

We should set up a page or an infograph or something and just link that every time people are being stupid so we don't have to rehash all this crap over and over.

I can hand out facts, math, data, and information all day, but people won't accept it if they're stuck in their ways. People's feelings are too hurt over getting pub stomped repeatedly in bad builds by good players and all they see is that the cumulative bar for wins is at about 90% most of the time when the clans only have a 55% win rate and the IS has a 45%, well within the bounds of normal competition, and honestly less than what is expected with the absolutely *massive* amount of high tier mercs joined up with CSJ and CJF right now.

People don't want to get good, they just want their bad mechs and their bad weapons to be super good, as good as the top meta mechs, but rather than asking PGI to buff some underperforming mechs and rallying together behind a cause that everyone wants they've made it into an all out Clan vs IS proxy war which just splits the population's opinions and leads to various weak mechs being forgotten entirely, buried under the waves of "pls nerf [insert new mech of opposite faction here]"

I just want people to see that Clan and IS tech isn't all too imbalanced after all and that quirks are there for a reason and must be considered when building a mech for an IS mech to work properly. Maybe then when people ask to go and buff something like the Mist Lynx you won't have people saying "but muh commando" or whatever equivalently bad mech on the other side they pick.

Ten Roos, on 08 May 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

I agree.. but you were saying BM should bring 6 ERLL in the previous post. A BM with only ERLL. Thats like saying Assaults should only have LRMS... again seriously?? And that was the best example you could come up with to refute the poster you were responding to. That is why I said you were trolling, Yes I do run 5 ERLL in my Thunderbolt now and then... but BM... come on.

6 ERLL Battlemaster is a rather common build, especially for those maps where you actually need range.

LRMs are just always trash tier at long range because you can dodge them, ERLL are instant hitscan weapons that can compete with PPCs at optimal range due to travel times.

So yes, the 6 ERLL Battlemaster is part of the CW meta.

Edited by Dakota1000, 08 May 2017 - 07:29 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Okay, here are the IS "meta" builds in my garage right now. These are mechs regularly in my FW rotation:

BNC-3E (2AC2, 2UAC5, 4ML)
BLR-2C (5LPL), BLR-1G (5ERLL)
ZEU-9S (3LPL, 3MPL)

MAD-3R (2LPL, 2PPC), MAD-BH (3LPL, 4ML)
WHM-6D (3LPL, 3MPL), WHM-6D (4LPL), WHM-6D (8MPL), WHM-6R (2PPC, 2UAC5)
GHP-5P (5ERLL), GHP-5H (3LPL, 2MPL)
JM6-FB (2ERPPC, Gauss), JM6-DD (3UAC5)
QKD-5K (3LPL, 2ML), RFL-5D (1LPL, 6ML)

GRF-2N (4ASRM6), GRF-1E (6MPL)
SHD-2D2 (AC10, 4SRM4)
CRB-27SL (5MPL)
BJ-1X (6ML, 2MPL), BJ-3 (2ERPPC)
PXH-1B (2PPC), PXH-2 (6ML)
CDA-2B (5MPL)

JRF-O (4SRM4)
SDR-5K (1LPL, 4MG)
LCT-1E (6SPL)


These builds all work in FW. Notice there are no LRMs, no weird bracket builds. Build to win or resign yourself to losing over and over.

Ten Roos, on 08 May 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

I agree.. but you were saying BM should bring 6 ERLL in the previous post. A BM with only ERLL. Thats like saying Assaults should only have LRMS... again seriously?? And that was the best example you could come up with to refute the poster you were responding to. That is why I said you were trolling, Yes I do run 5 ERLL in my Thunderbolt now and then... but BM... come on.

Yes, absolutely. You are not in QP any longer. so stop building your mechs like a soloist. This is a build that works on Alpine, Polar, and Boreal. 6ERLL works because you want max poke damage. You don't need smaller weapons because you should not be running off by yourself and getting killed by lights. Heck, there likely aren't any lights in a first wave to begin with, so min-max that build. You are playing on a cold map, with a team, and at long range, which means heat management doesn't matter as much -- you have all the time in the world to back into cover and cool off.

Edited by Kubernetes, 08 May 2017 - 07:42 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Kubernetes, on 08 May 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

MAD-3R (2LPL, 2PPC)

2LPL + 2PPC combo.

I see you are a man of culture as well.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Except clan weapons run much hotter and have stricter ghost heat rules.

Here we go with math again. I'll compare 2 75 tonners.

Black Knight Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c016728942eb76c
Timber Wolf Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...996d6779d9d6193

Black Knight has a 10% heat gen quirk for all energy weapons among other things.

That Black Knight generates 40.5 heat per alpha after quirks for 69 damage. The Timber Wolf generates 56 heat for 68 damage.

Black Knight has about half Timber Wolf's duration with the lasers, causing 103 damage per second worth of beam time based on longest duration laser. Meanwhile TW gets 59 damage per second worth of beam time.

When elited TW takes 11.45 seconds to cool an alpha back to 0, the Black Knight takes 12.82 seconds.

The Black Knight's loadout is 5 tons of heatsinks plus 33 tons of lasers for 38 tons total. Timber Wolf's is 15 tons of heatsinks and 18 tons of lasers for 33 tons total. This puts the Timber Wolf's loadout at 5 tons lighter than the Black Knight's. This 15% difference in weight may very well be covered by the quirks, as is their purpose.


Basically Clan weapons are lighter but they require many more heatsinks to cool them down to the level of IS. In trades they will lose horribly due to IS weapons that are twice as precise with less waste heat, unless they can use their range advantage. Basically they absolutely dominate when defending choke points in CW where the defender can just sit up near some cover about 200m from the gate and blast the more fragile clanners the instant they walk through the gate without giving them time to react.

Lighter but inefficient weapons = more heatsinks = more spread = lower alphas = losing trades.

Attacking a chokepoint sucks for both sides, not just Clanners. That Black Knight would be quickly side-checked pushing through the same gate, and is slower pushing through than the Timber Wolf.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Kaeb Odellas, on 08 May 2017 - 07:40 PM, said:

Attacking a chokepoint sucks for both sides, not just Clanners. That Black Knight would be quickly side-checked pushing through the same gate, and is slower pushing through than the Timber Wolf.

Black Knights definitely aren't the easiest of mechs to break a side torso off of with their hitboxes and with Clan's longer durations. Besides that, a push usually has a bit of cover along the way (at least on half the maps) or a twisting path that will keep you safe from the more extreme range mechs, usually forcing them to close into IS engagement ranges or fall back to attempt to get a better position. This type of Black Knight wouldn't just show itself and stand out of cover, it would peek out and fall back. Its not a non stop guns blazing charge, but more of a commando team peeking out and zapping enemies and moving on one by one type of deal. The speed wouldn't really matter in this case, but the acceleration and torso twisting to get in and out of cover is really what matters.

[Ten Roos]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

6 ERLL Battlemaster is a rather common build, especially for those maps where you actually need range.

So yes, the 6 ERLL Battlemaster is part of the CW meta.

As I said i do run a 5 ERLL Thunder. But we are talking FW atm.. where IS is mainly (my exp, and when I log on.. Aussie evening) attacking on Siege. Again go back to the OP. The example he used to refute the OP was to use a 6 ERLL BM... which IMO is just an extreme build. Yes it may work on "some Maps".

And Kub.. he said 6 ERLL not 5 on the BM. Still prefer the 5 ERLL on the Thunder. Actually not sure how you fit 6 ERLL on the BM without massive heat problems. I will stay with my 5 x LPL on the BM... or the 3LPL + 5 ML builds

[Templar Dane]

Garfuncle, on 08 May 2017 - 06:53 PM, said:

I like how Clanners list a select few IS mechs that stand remotely any chance against them as "proof of balance." Meanwhile the best light is the Cheetah, the best medium is the Hunchback IIC, the best Heavy is the Night Gyr and now I'd say the Mad IIC is better than the Kodiak so it's the top dog now.

Then you have the nova, huntsman, stormcrow, t-wolf, ebon jag and kodiak...meanwhile despite the volume of mech selection IS has, if you're not taking a warhammer, battlemaster, grasshopper or maybe stalker in your deck you are considerably gimped from the get go.

Not long ago the best lights were the huginn, oxide and ember.

Griffin much?

MADIIC is hot garbage compared to the battlemaster.

[Y E O N N E]

Ten Roos, on 08 May 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

And Kub.. he said 6 ERLL not 5 on the BM. Still prefer the 5 ERLL on the Thunder. Actually not sure how you fit 6 ERLL on the BM without massive heat problems.

Easy.

[The Lighthouse]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Except clan weapons run much hotter and have stricter ghost heat rules.

Here we go with math again. I'll compare 2 75 tonners.

Black Knight Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c016728942eb76c
Timber Wolf Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...996d6779d9d6193

Black Knight has a 10% heat gen quirk for all energy weapons among other things.

That Black Knight generates 40.5 heat per alpha after quirks for 69 damage. The Timber Wolf generates 56 heat for 68 damage.

Black Knight has about half Timber Wolf's duration with the lasers, causing 103 damage per second worth of beam time based on longest duration laser. Meanwhile TW gets 59 damage per second worth of beam time.

When elited TW takes 11.45 seconds to cool an alpha back to 0, the Black Knight takes 12.82 seconds.

The Black Knight's loadout is 5 tons of heatsinks plus 33 tons of lasers for 38 tons total. Timber Wolf's is 15 tons of heatsinks and 18 tons of lasers for 33 tons total. This puts the Timber Wolf's loadout at 5 tons lighter than the Black Knight's. This 15% difference in weight may very well be covered by the quirks, as is their purpose.


Basically Clan weapons are lighter but they require many more heatsinks to cool them down to the level of IS. In trades they will lose horribly due to IS weapons that are twice as precise with less waste heat, unless they can use their range advantage. Basically they absolutely dominate when defending choke points in CW where the defender can just sit up near some cover about 200m from the gate and blast the more fragile clanners the instant they walk through the gate without giving them time to react.

Lighter but inefficient weapons = more heatsinks = more spread = lower alphas = losing trades.

So.... are you going to ignore the facts that...

1) Typical IS XL Side Torso death for Blackknight.

2) Even with IS XL BK still moves slower than Timberwolf.


Only reason this comparison is even remotely valid is that Timber Wolf is an omni mech that it cannot swap its engines.

...

The most problematic Clan mechs are mostly non-omni Battlemechs, for this previse reason. You are only proving how far Clan mechs are superior to IS mechs, even with relatively oversized engine.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 08 May 2017 - 08:00 PM.

[Haldricht]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Black Knight Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c016728942eb76c
Timber Wolf Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...996d6779d9d6193

The builds aren't exactly equal in performance or purpose, though. The Black Knight is a brawler whose ISLPLs can provide good some short-mid damage. The Timber Wolf is a solid mid-range build. Your example focuses on short-range (220m or less) alpha strikes where ISMPLs will perform their very best, but ignores closing distance and the Timber Wolf has no incentive to close range.

The ISLPL has 61% of the range of the CLPL and the ISMPL has 54% of the range of the CERML. Free shots won't help the Black Knight's survivability, while the range issues won't help it's own damage while closing. The Black Knight will die from side torso loss, the Timber Wolf won't. The Timber Wolf is faster, too.

Yes, face-to-face in a phone booth, a short-range meta Black Knight is competitive against an off-meta, but viable, mid-range Timber Wolf. Outside of that context? Those scales tip the other way.

[naterist]

The Lighthouse, on 08 May 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

So.... are you going to ignore the facts that...

1) Typical IS XL Side Torso death for Blackknight.

2) Even with IS XL BK still moves slower than Timberwolf.


Only reason this comparison is even remotely valid is that Timber Wolf is an omni mech that it cannot swap its engines.

...

The most problematic Clan mechs are mostly non-omni Battlemechs, for this previse reason. You are only proving how far Clan mechs are superior to IS mechs, even with relatively oversized engine.

Dont forget, that timby can get in an alpha at near optimal range, another at optimal, and possibly a 3rd with coolshots in the time it takes that black knight to close to its near optimal range. so multiply that timby's alpha by 3 and you got the in game aplication of those numbers.

[Y E O N N E]

What kind of craptastic BK build is that? Extra short-ranged, under-cooled, under-engined, focusing only on the quantity of damage and not the quality...nobody is going to play that. Why would you go XL and then constrain yourself to the same speeds you would run on a STD build?

WITH THE QUIRKS: the TBR can win the trades above or below the 330-450 range against a properly built BK, but it has to either commit to capping out at ~570 m max (cMPL) or being clumsy beneath 400 m (cERML+cLPL). The BK sits in a goldilocks zone where it can win 50/50 from 400 m on down and it is not at all clumsy to wield at any range, it just loses a lot of potency by 450 meters, though it can still hold its own in a different capacity with 3x LPL. With the short burns, structure bonus, and superior hit-boxes, the BK is essentially even with the cXL when piloted properly unless the enemy is using PPFLD. It's PPFLD that highlights the isXL issue; laser fights are pretty much a wash.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 08 May 2017 - 08:19 PM.

[naterist]

Yeonne Greene, on 08 May 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

What kind of craptastic BK build is that? Extra short-ranged, under-cooled, under-engined, focusing only on the quantity of damage and not the quality...nobody is going to play that. Why would you go XL and then constrain yourself to the same speeds you would run on a STD build?

WITH THE QUIRKS: the TBR can win the trades above or below the 330-450 range against a properly built BK, but it has to either commit to capping out at ~570 m max (cMPL) or being clumsy beneath 400 m (cERML+cLPL). The BK sits in a goldilocks zone where it can win 50/50 from 400 m on down and it is not at all clumsy to wield at any range, it just loses a lot of potency by 450 meters, though it can still hold its own in a different capacity with 3x LPL. With the short burns, structure bonus, and superior hit-boxes, the BK is essentially even with the cXL when piloted properly unless the enemy is using PPFLD. It's PPFLD that highlights the isXL issue; laser fights are pretty much a wash.

for 5 kph more and a more syncronized loadout you get................... another loss because it mastered is still slower then a timby and its max range is the same.....

and ya, ppc splash damage is the real *****. dont even gotta aim, just hit an arm and if its an xl its still doin damage to a kill component.

[Y E O N N E]

naterist, on 08 May 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

for 5 kph more and a more syncronized loadout you get................... another loss because it mastered is still slower then a timby and its max range is the same.....

6 kph doesn't mean sh*t. It would take you 17 seconds of running in a perfectly straight line for even a 100 meter gap to open up, and a lesser gap is irrelevant. The TBR won't arrive to a fight faster than a BK with enough of a margin to matter.

As for range, bring the appropriate tool for the job. HPG or Mining Collective? BK with LPLs and MLs will be quite nasty and I bet you dollars to doughnuts that most enemy TBRs will not be running cMPL, so you have the edge. Alpine or Polar? GHR with ERLL, wreck 'em.

Quote

and ya, ppc splash damage is the real *****. dont even gotta aim, just hit an arm and if its an xl its still doin damage to a kill component.

It's not just the splash, it's the nature of PPFLD: it doesn't spread. Superior geometry and hitboxes do you little favor with FLD in play and isXLs in every torso.

Here's a pro-tip, though: isLPLs don't really spread damage either. Seriously. If it's a mid-range map, spam the crap out of LPLs, it's like having the world's frostiest PPCs.

[Templar Dane]

naterist, on 08 May 2017 - 08:09 PM, said:

Dont forget, that timby can get in an alpha at near optimal range, another at optimal, and possibly a 3rd with coolshots in the time it takes that black knight to close to its near optimal range. so multiply that timby's alpha by 3 and you got the in game aplication of those numbers.

I'd feel pretty stupid if I was in a black knight and I let a timberwolf shoot me 3 times in the face with CLPL without being able to return fire with my ISLPL. I think I might have grabbed cover.

That's not trading, that's sitting there like an idiot being shot at.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Problem has always been that IS has superficially lower barrier to entry to new players, however omnimechs are ultimately far more cost-effective mechs for casual players that don't follow the nerf/buff cycle closely.

A new player that buys their first three omnimechs. First of all it's difficult for them to make a bad decision picking a chassis- very few are true lemons across the board. Second, they can adapt all three to an effective build, and begin to get good playing that build. They can master the chassis off those three mechs and pick up a fourth to build a drop deck (of some casual strength). While a lot of arguments can be made against omnimechs, they're adaptable across patches, which is valuable to a new player.

That same player goes IS, and their first challenge is blindly navigating the minefield of chassis. If they pick a good chassis, then they'll get a good variant, and two variants that are slightly worse- we'll assume they pick the best variants for sake of argument, but this is not a given. If they pick a bad chassis, then at best they're getting one thoroughly mediocre variant, and two irredeemably terrible ones. Here's the rub- now if they want to build a drop deck, they're either taking one good to mediocre variant, and two that are good to awful, or they're selling their two bad mechs and buying two more of their best variant. Now a patch hits and their entire deck is thrown into chaos as they have to either buy new mechs or abide themselves being deadweight. A player that only plays a dozen games a month can obviously only choose the latter without spending money.

To pick good mechs or good variants, a player needs to know how to read the quirks to pick out what's valuable and what isn't- which requires experience or a proactive sense of researching before doing. Clan mechs as a whole have fewer traps for new, casual, or mediocre players, being much less quirk reliant, omnimech system etc. A new Clan player receives vastly less punishment for mistakes in the store and mechbay.

The disparity between top Clan variants and top IS variants isn't what turns matches, it's that IS mechs plumb depths that longtime Clan players probably forgot even existed. The deadweight on an IS team is just far heavier and more numerous than that on a Clan team- which is perhaps why IS does much better at scouting than they do at invasion- it's easier to pick one superquirked medium or light that you're good at than it is to pick four equally excellent variants.

Edited by vnlk65n, 08 May 2017 - 09:23 PM.

[Zergling]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Except clan weapons run much hotter and have stricter ghost heat rules.

Here we go with math again. I'll compare 2 75 tonners.

Black Knight Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c016728942eb76c
Timber Wolf Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...996d6779d9d6193

That BK has an XL engine, so you can forget about any sort of durability advantage for that mech.

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Black Knight has a 10% heat gen quirk for all energy weapons among other things.

That Black Knight generates 40.5 heat per alpha after quirks for 69 damage. The Timber Wolf generates 56 heat for 68 damage.

When elited TW takes 11.45 seconds to cool an alpha back to 0, the Black Knight takes 12.82 seconds.

Correct, and this gives the Timby 5.93 sustained DPS, versus 4.92 for the BK, which is a 20% DPS advantage for the Timby.

In a brawl, this means the BK is badly outgunned.

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Black Knight has about half Timber Wolf's duration with the lasers, causing 103 damage per second worth of beam time based on longest duration laser. Meanwhile TW gets 59 damage per second worth of beam time.

That's not a good way to compare this.

The BK has a maximum beam duration of 0.9 seconds for its full 63 damage. In 0.9 seconds, the Timby can do 54 damage.
If the BK only fires 0.67 seconds, it will only do 55 damage, while the Timby will do 40 damage in 0.67 seconds.


With the BK running an XL engine, which means it is going to lose trades due to being much more fragile.
With an XL engine, and just 2 points of rear armor, the BK will die in just 106 damage taken to a side torso, while the minimum damage to kill a Timby with 2 points of rear armor is 136 points.

So even if the BK is twisting to avoid taking more than 0.9 seconds beam duration to one of its side torsos, and is inflicting all 0.9 seconds of its own beam duration to the CT of the Timby, it will still lose.

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Basically Clan weapons are lighter but they require many more heatsinks to cool them down to the level of IS. In trades they will lose horribly due to IS weapons that are twice as precise with less waste heat, unless they can use their range advantage. Basically they absolutely dominate when defending choke points in CW where the defender can just sit up near some cover about 200m from the gate and blast the more fragile clanners the instant they walk through the gate without giving them time to react.

Lighter but inefficient weapons = more heatsinks = more spread = lower alphas = losing trades.

You are neglecting to mention that the Timby has an effective range of 405 meters, while the BK only has an effective range of 270 meters.
This means that outside of situations where the BK can force combat at 270 meters or less, the BK is screwed.

[Templar Dane]

Ten Roos, on 08 May 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

I agree.. but you were saying BM should bring 6 ERLL in the previous post. A BM with only ERLL. Thats like saying Assaults should only have LRMS... again seriously?? And that was the best example you could come up with to refute the poster you were responding to. That is why I said you were trolling, Yes I do run 5 ERLL in my Thunderbolt now and then... but BM... come on.

You know the game mode and the map before you drop. Kind of makes sense to be prepared eh?

[Templar Dane]

Zergling, on 08 May 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

That BK has an XL engine, so you can forget about any sort of durability advantage for that mech.

Duration difference.

Zergling, on 08 May 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

Correct, and this gives the Timby 5.93 sustained DPS, versus 4.92 for the BK, which is a 20% DPS advantage for the Timby.

In a brawl, this means the BK is badly outgunned.

sustained dps is kind of moot when it comes to laser vomit since laser vomit is all about the damage on the component you're aiming at.

Zergling, on 08 May 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

That's not a good way to compare this.

The BK has a maximum beam duration of 0.9 seconds for its full 63 damage. In 0.9 seconds, the Timby can do 54 damage.
If the BK only fires 0.67 seconds, it will only do 55 damage, while the Timby will do 40 damage in 0.67 seconds.

How does a BK with medium pulse (.6s duration) and large pulse (.67s duration) have a .9s duration for it's alpha?

Zergling, on 08 May 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

With the BK running an XL engine, which means it is going to lose trades due to being much more fragile.
With an XL engine, and just 2 points of rear armor, the BK will die in just 106 damage taken to a side torso, while the minimum damage to kill a Timby with 2 points of rear armor is 136 points.

So even if the BK is twisting to avoid taking more than 0.9 seconds beam duration to one of its side torsos, and is inflicting all 0.9 seconds of its own beam duration to the CT of the Timby, it will still lose.

Again, where the hell are you getting .9s duration for ISLPL/ISMPL?

Zergling, on 08 May 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

You are neglecting to mention that the Timby has an effective range of 405 meters, while the BK only has an effective range of 270 meters.
This means that outside of situations where the BK can force combat at 270 meters or less, the BK is screwed.

ISLPL = 365m base range not 270, so the main punch of the BK has some reach.