299 replies to this topic

[Generic Internetter]

PGI, the new skill tree is over-complicated with these hexagonal pathways. Just list the node types and let us apply skill points to whatever we want, IE: 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, etc. By all means keep the 800/400 activation/reactivation cost in place, but this pointless pathway system brings NO BENEFIT TO THE GAMEPLAY. Did you think people would be excited about hexagonal pathways?

The XP cost and C-Bill cost of skills is far cheaper than what it used to be as modules. If you path directly, nothing costs 3 or 6 million C-Bills anymore, nor does it cost 15k GXP anymore... In fact it's all normal mech XP now. This should be basically a jump for joy for experienced players who had nothing to do with all that extra XP lying around. The new system is much cheaper to navigate, and NO LONGER REQUIRES US TO SWITCH MODULES AROUND.

The update should have automatically converted the installed modules and unlocked efficiencies into active nodes, thus preventing the long-term players from having to spend DOZENS OF HOURS JUST CLICKING THROUGH A USELESS HEXAGON MAZE TO GET THE MECHS WHERE TO THE PERFORMANCE THEY WERE BEFORE.

Surely this process could have been converted automatically to save the players from this task?
Was this not even discussed at PGI?
If so, then why was it not done this way?!
If not, then.... Did you even consider the player experience?!

Really the only true problem with this update was the lack of automated application of efficiencies and modules, thus forcing players to do all those hours of clicking.

[Slambot]

OMG! the trolling is insane. The drama!

I find the skill tree to be both fun and a nice change of pace. The game I have played for years is very different now. I have over 300 mastered mechs. Yes the amount of nodes is a bit large, but I found that after speccing about 3 mechs, I had the hang of it and speccing more is taking about 3-6 minutes once I have an idea of what I want to do with the mech.

I played 10 or so matches yesterday and the discussion on the tree was overwhelmingly positive.

[Canislupus]

Well i allready spend 3mill CBills because of trying around and because there is no real respec System. @Generic Internetter
i try specing a mech, play a game with it and must buy new points because they are wasted when you activated them.
Noway this is cheaper than a module which is movable to a mech which it is better fitted.
And sorry you have to go trial and error because there is no good feedback what the skills will do or not. and as some one who only played mechs he liked and have not a bunch of refunding, well let me say it, you are screwed when you wasted skillpoints.
and sorry again but when everyone take mostly the same skills it is no individualisation.
and to prove my theorie i ask this rhetorical question:
who does not skill the survival skilltree? right i does not to try somethink out and bamm useless without.
well i like the idea not to have to skill 3 mechs of a kind, and to choose from skills i really do, but i do have 2 demands, right demands no wishes anylonger:
-first do a real respec
-second go to a skilltree which you can really choose from.
i like the idea of paying 1 sp for the first slot for example speedtweak, 2 for the second and so on. when i can choose the skills.

Or do a real testing possibility to try the skills out bevor saving/wasting the points. there are so much possibilities and ideas out there.

Edited by Canislupus, 18 May 2017 - 03:13 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

DexiledWarrior, on 17 May 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

If u want wait a few days for the spreadsheet warriors to figure this out and after you can be the meta fopy pasters u once were...

In the meantime 'll enjoy testing things out the good old way... after that i'll decide.

Who has the time to test hundreds of mechs. I'm a perfectionist.. if my mech isn't running optimally I refuse to run it.. the tree is forcing you to spend more time in mech lab, rather than having fun on the battlefield. This tree was NOT value-added to the user.

New maps are value-added, fixing the numerous glitches in the game is value added, staring at dizzying trees for hours a day IS NOT. Before I would go to bed and actually dream about playing the game.. now I'm afraid my dreams will consist of me drowning in useless hexagons like shock-absorbance, hill-climb and speed retention.

The amount I've actually dropped in-game has been significantly reduced.. I'm wasting my premium time and I'm not happy.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 18 May 2017 - 03:43 AM.

[DexiledWarrior]

DAEDALOS513, on 18 May 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Who has the time to test hundreds of mechs. I'm a perfectionist.. if my mech isn't running optimally I refuse to run it.. the tree is forcing you to spend more time in mech lab, wasting prem time, rather than having fun on the battle-field. This tree was NOT value-added to the user.

Ur a perfectionist who is not willing to try his mech until he finds the perfect build... yup what i expected...... a wannabe on a high horse... boohoo im a founder, boohoo i waste time in mechlab and u call urself a perfectionist....... u were bitching the first moment the tree was out, u saw a **** ton of nodes and saw the amount of mechs u have and went fk this **** im out and ***** on forums..... nice perfectionist u are.

[DAEDALOS513]

Generic Internetter, on 18 May 2017 - 02:41 AM, said:

Really the only true problem with this update was the lack of automated application of efficiencies and modules, thus forcing players to do all those hours of clicking.

This right here is exactly what I was thinking. If they had done this, just put a modicum of thought into what the user experience would be, all this rage would not exist. People just want to get their mechs performing like they did before.. They should have done this and then if the user so wished, they could play with the trees and fine-tune their builds.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 18 May 2017 - 03:55 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

DexiledWarrior, on 18 May 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

Ur a perfectionist who is not willing to try his mech until he finds the perfect build... yup what i expected...... a wannabe on a high horse... boohoo im a founder, boohoo i waste time in mechlab and u call urself a perfectionist....... u were bitching the first moment the tree was out, u saw a **** ton of nodes and saw the amount of mechs u have and went fk this **** im out and ***** on forums..... nice perfectionist u are.

Forgive my human foibles but yes I'm a perfectionist...Customization is great, but this is overkill. This isn't a mmorpg but a fps shooter. It's so complicated that it takes me about 4-5 times to drop with a mech before I have it to where I want.. multiply this by 241 (# mechs I own) before I get to where I was pre-patch. Gawd forbid I decide to change my build on a mech, then I have to rethink the tree.. yet another reason why the tree hurts game enjoyment.. changing builds has become a chore to dread rather than something to enjoy.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 18 May 2017 - 04:03 AM.

[Daggett]

Canislupus, on 18 May 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

who does not skill the survival skilltree? right i does not to try somethink out and bamm useless without.

My lurm-Maddog for instance don't need this tree. I peek around a corner or above a ridge with my shoulder, narc an assault and then fall back in second-line to give my narced target a nightmare. In maybe 3 out of 10 such peeks i get between 10 and 30 dmg return-fire, often only on my useless arm.

Thus the base-armor is usually sufficent. You can share it if needed but can still fire from safety when it's all gone.

But the more your mech wants to brawl, the more important the survival-tree becomes because you can't brawl efficiently when you are cored.
However if you don't brawl at all, there may be better trees for you.

[Kaethir]

Morte Nilsum, on 17 May 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

I think the skill system is a step in the right direction, and better than the previous system, but it has some drawbacks and are in need of improvements.

On this, we agree 100%.

[Brom96]

Sorry, but no matter what I do, I cannot configure my mech to be as fast, has as much cooling as before. I get usless traits, like seismics and target retention which I never used before. My assumption is still that they tried to nerf the play. That's it. And change for the sake of change.

[Balls McManly]

I don't understand why PGI thought they needed to throw this convoluted maze at us when other game developers are fighting to streamline their character progression schemes.

Probably the worst thing about this update is that the current maze has no depth - each node is just frigging flat upgrades with insane path design. Whoever said "why the **** does my Kodiak need shock absorbance to have better armor" has nailed it. What was the thought behind the way these skills are placed? What benefit does this have over, say, a consolidated list of 10 or so skills flat on a board and just let us dump points in them as we see fit? I want armor hardening? I put 5 points into it. I want shock absorbance? 5 points. I shouldn't have to navigate a maze to figure out how to give my mech more armor.

The fact that someone from PGI actually spent their time to design this horrific maze which is complicated as all hell and yet adds no depth is just absolutely awful to me. This is misdirected talent in the worst sense and a colossal waste of resources which could have gone to better places - like fixing your community warfare problems.

Most of us, long time fans of Mechwarrior and Battletech, would much rather spend our time tinkering with hardpoints, slots, and weapons than abstract stuff like a pointless RPG skill grid that has no place in a mech shooter in the first place.

You want complexity? Give us more choices in the mechlab. Where's my reflective armor? Reactive armor? Let me take out actuators. Tune my engines. Support multiple ammo types. Give us different weapons manufacturers. THAT'S the kind of complexity that I'd love to have. Not this half-assed bullcrap.

Edited by Balls McManly, 18 May 2017 - 08:37 AM.

[FearThePaladin]

I have to say the Pirate Bane that I have had so much fun on is now just a crap mech. Basically the new skill tree has F'ed the game.

I have to say in order to get to someplace close to what the Pirates Bane had in terms of ECM, Radar Dep and speed tweaks etc.. I CANNOT GET NOW...

I have to get a BOAT LOAD OF CR@P that uses UP POINTS THAT I DO NOT WANT! In order to get almost what I want...

I mean really if the DAMN TREE WAS AN IMPROVEMENT I SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO GET TO WHERE THE MECH WAS BEFORE THE TREE CAME OUT.

I am definitely considering QUITING THIS GAME and I have played on it since the beginning.

I mean DAMN MAPS ARE FUN.. How much damn time did you put into a SKILL TREE that means getting stuff you DONT WANT ON THE MECH!

Geeze...

ROLL THIS **** BACK OUT OF THE GAME

[DAEDALOS513]

FearThePaladin, on 18 May 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

I have to say the Pirate Bane that I have had so much fun on is now just a crap mech. Basically the new skill tree has F'ed the game.

I have to say in order to get to someplace close to what the Pirates Bane had in terms of ECM, Radar Dep and speed tweaks etc.. I CANNOT GET NOW...

I have to get a BOAT LOAD OF CR@P that uses UP POINTS THAT I DO NOT WANT! In order to get almost what I want...

I mean really if the DAMN TREE WAS AN IMPROVEMENT I SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO GET TO WHERE THE MECH WAS BEFORE THE TREE CAME OUT.

I am definitely considering QUITING THIS GAME and I have played on it since the beginning.

I mean DAMN MAPS ARE FUN.. How much damn time did you put into a SKILL TREE that means getting stuff you DONT WANT ON THE MECH!

Geeze...

ROLL THIS **** BACK OUT OF THE GAME

As a fellow light pilot, I feel your pain. This is exactly how I felt when they ruined all my favourite lights for the resize.. Panther, Jenner, Wolfhound, Firestarter.. have you tried maxing out the agility tree on the locust? I'm talking every single node? I'm finding this helps with getting my lights back into the groove.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 18 May 2017 - 08:50 AM.

[Psycho Cop]

Before patch => things were nicely balanced
After patch => screw balance, let's take my overpowered mech without any team synergy

[Deffias]

DAEDALOS513, on 16 May 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

Congratulations.. on par for the course.. you managed to ruin the game. Patches are supposed to be value-added to the user. Less time playing and more time in the UI is NOT value added.

For some probably. I'm enjoying the time investment to conduct the necessary deeper thought required to properly skill a mech under the new system. Total time on my first mech was maybe 30-45 minutes? A lot of that was understanding the new UI. Subsequent mechs went much faster once I became familiar with the new Skill Tree (10-20 mins). Then I was able to get right back to playing, in order to test my new specs, and refine them.

DAEDALOS513, on 16 May 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

Having dropped 5 times with my wolfhound, tweaking it after each drop, it still feels worse off than before this skill-tree monstrosity. Can you even begin to imagine what it feels like for someone you has 236 mechs to skill out, and to attempt to have them perform AT LEAST as well as before? It's too daunting.. and most likely not worth the effort. Seriously, what goes through your heads? You always seem to go overboard with every stinkin decision you make.

In the patch notes they mentioned a lot of mechs' had their baselines reduced. This allows for more disparity between mechs who were spec'd deep into a tree, and those that were not, specifically for mobility and armor.

Correct me please if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain PGI never said mechs will perform exactly the same under the new system as they used to under the old system. That comparison you're making between your "old" Wolfhound and "new" Wolfhound, is an assumption on your part.

PGI have been forthcoming with their plans and intentions with the new skill tree. Granted it's a lot of reading, but reading about the development process would probably help clear up your in accurate perception.

I can understand your frustration as a "hard core" competitive player. Having to go back through and re-learn the meta, and how best to take full advantage of it, is probably an incredibly daunting task to be faced with.

DAEDALOS513, on 16 May 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

Experienced pilots are telling me they're taking a break from this game. These are pilots that had a hard-core love affair with this game.. and they are taking a break.

I've been playing since 2013, breaks from a free to play game are common and expected. Free to play games generally lack the depth of content (compared to subscription based games) to consistently hold a player's attention through out the life the game.

Even though your wolfhound performs lesser than it used too... So does everyone elses. The only "REAL" change you are faced with as a "hardcore player" (I'm assuming you are, from your apparent association to the anecdotal hardcore players that are leaving) is re-calibrating your understanding of the meta that has shifted only slightly.

Hopefully Meta-Mechs will update soon (not likely...), and release all the meta focused builds, that you and your comrades can drop with, and continue to wtfbbqpwn me in Faction Play - then, everything will be right in the world again.

[Uncleclint]

Well, i´m still trying to get in my head which of those strange new GSP, HSP, HXP and whatever else they may be called are good for doing what? I actually haven´t spent a single of those points yet cause i don´t want to convert something for something else and soon after realize that what i did was good for nothing i wanted to achieve.
This is an utterly pointless and useless system af a hundred thousand different currencies so far and that should be SIMPLIFIED ASAP!!!


srsly



better now than never.

About the skill tree itself... well i feel like i´ll invest an hour or two - if it´s as disappointing as the strange-new-points-jungle i´ll definitely post another one here. I just don´t wanna give up hope... yet.
It didn´t look that bad at all (maybe) - yeah OK the nightmare of having to create skill tree thingies for all the mechs in my bays...
at least there´s not a crapton of new weapons in the game to make everything even more confusing... yet.

Back to the patch notes then - already hate reading through all of this

[Morfane]

Well, as I logged in yesterday, I was excited about the new skill tree. I gave up after 30 minutes of trying to skill up a phoenix hawk, my favorite one. Today I thought it would be nice to give it a second chance. Now I lost 2000 mc just to convert some historic xp into some new one AND STILL HAVE no nodes available. Maybe I AM just too stupid for this new system. But before the patch, I wasnt.

I just quit this game, too.

[The Bountyhunter]

Reminds me of World of Warplanes...they had a great game where you could get in great drops with many players, then one patch that totally ****** the flight controls led to a now-dead game. Who thought this was smart?

[DAEDALOS513]

Deffias, on 18 May 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

For some probably. I'm enjoying the time investment to conduct the necessary deeper thought required to properly skill a mech under the new system. Total time on my first mech was maybe 30-45 minutes? A lot of that was understanding the new UI. Subsequent mechs went much faster once I became familiar with the new Skill Tree (10-20 mins). Then I was able to get right back to playing, in order to test my new specs, and refine them.

Correct me please if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain PGI never said mechs will perform exactly the same under the new system as they used to under the old system. That comparison you're making between your "old" Wolfhound and "new" Wolfhound, is an assumption on your part.

PGI have been forthcoming with their plans and intentions with the new skill tree. Granted it's a lot of reading, but reading about the development process would probably help clear up your in accurate perception.

I can understand your frustration as a "hard core" competitive player. Having to go back through and re-learn the meta, and how best to take full advantage of it, is probably an incredibly daunting task to be faced with.

I've been playing since 2013, breaks from a free to play game are common and expected. Free to play games generally lack the depth of content (compared to subscription based games) to consistently hold a player's attention through out the life the game.

Even though your wolfhound performs lesser than it used too... So does everyone elses. The only "REAL" change you are faced with as a "hardcore player" (I'm assuming you are, from your apparent association to the anecdotal hardcore players that are leaving) is re-calibrating your understanding of the meta that has shifted only slightly.

Hopefully Meta-Mechs will update soon (not likely...), and release all the meta focused builds, that you and your comrades can drop with, and continue to wtfbbqpwn me in Faction Play - then, everything will be right in the world again.

Thanks for all your input you put alot of effort into your reply but.. where do I even begin.. at the top I presume. You say you build your mechs in 20 minutes? I'm assuming you are not dropping with them once they are outfitted.. until you drop each mech in group queue (not solo queue) a few times, there is no way you have an optimal build with all these options available to you, I don't care what you say. For some dropping in sub-optimal builds may be ok, but for me it's not an option. Every mech is different and you cannot apply the same trees to each mech simply because they are both laser vomit and call it a day.. there are mounts to consider, size, structure, built-in quirks.. you are deluding yourself if you think you are accomplishing something worthwhile in 20 minutes in the click-tree.

I can tell you are not a light pilot, correct me if i'm wrong , but if you were, you would understand light pilots derive enjoyment out of lights for the way they feel under your control. You become one with them.. this feeling doesn't come from piloting lumbering heavies or assaults, that is a different experience altogether. Just because everyone else is under the same constraints doesn't change anything. The fact that my lights feel more like mediums has hurt my and all other light pilots overall enjoyment of the game.

I admit I don't read the endless notes PGI provides for game development, which inevitably end up being not completely accurate anyway.. I already have my Bachelor's in Commerce so when I sit down to game, I don't feel like revisiting my school days (I still have nightmares about finals btw). I want to shoot things.. this is what PGI doesn't understand.. in this fast paced world where no one has time to take a sh*t and the 30+ year old gaming demographic is steadily increasing, people with jobs and families don't want to sit behind a monitor and calculate the best route on a tree, they want to sit down after work or school and destroy things with colourful laser beams or giant canon balls.

Btw I avoid meta like the plague, so please don't assume because I'm good, I pilot meta. That would bore the tar out of me.. ask anyone that knows me.

Yes breaks from free-to-play's are common.. but this game is different.. there is no real competition for Mechwarrior Online.. its fans have a hard-core love affair with it, as I like to put it, or else they would have left long ago with all the missteps PGI has taken on this long and bumpy road. For people to actually take a break from a game under these circumstances is more serious than at first glance and cannot be casually brushed off.. PGI cannot afford this.

So let me throw one more at ya and hope to have enlightened more than bored.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 18 May 2017 - 10:07 AM.

[Kaethir]

Deffias, on 18 May 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

Correct me please if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain PGI never said mechs will perform exactly the same under the new system as they used to under the old system.

I liken it to a new expansion in WoW (I used to play). Every couple of years playing WoW, you had to relearn how to play your character, because they changed things for a new expansion. Sometimes it was a small change, sometimes it was a big one, but you did it anyway or you quit. It's the way of living games that things change. There are always going to be people that complain about the changes, but if you internalize this thought and accept it, you will be happier for it.

In this case, people were told 'you get to keep all your progress' and thought it meant 'you can put everything back the way it was'. That is not what is going on - you had all your skills in the previous "tree", you get to have the maximum number of skills in this tree that you can equip at one time, without any further investment. This does not mean that your mech will perform and behave exactly the same, because you can't get the same things now that you used to be able to. The options no longer exist to do so, so you have to re-learn how to play.