154 replies to this topic

[DavidStarr]

Cadoazreal, on 27 July 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

IS need tonnage advantage still because clans win more at puggle level long range poke trading.

Except there isn't much long-range poking going on, especially not in Siege mode. Most maps are not suited for that, they encourage brawling, and clans currently can't win brawls with IS assuming equal pilot skill on both sides.

In fact, while clans are (were?..) superior at mid-range poking, I don't feel they are/were superior at long range. IS ERLL and clan ERLL seem to be at least on par (if not better on the IS side), clan vs. IS Gauss rifles are also comparable. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

RaptorCWS, on 27 July 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

what are your builds and are you pugging it.

I am indeed pugging it. My builds are... probably questionable, I admit, but the main problem is that I simply don't understand how people are able to get 2k+ damage, let alone - get 2k out of two mechs and not all 4 of them. Which is to say, I'm not great at this mode especially in the absence of a drop caller (which is 9 drops out of 10, on the clan side), but it is the same not-great-me playing clan side that it was playing IS side, and the balance got thrown out of the window in the latest update.

Since you've asked (and since I'm always looking for advice that would help me suck less), here's my default drop deck, usually in this order:
- 2 x HLL + 3 x ER-ML Hellbringer;
- 2 x LB-X 10 + 4 x MPL MAD-IIC;
- 2 x LB-X 10 + 2 x ER-SL HBK-IIC;
- Trial Jenner

My second drop deck is a bit more odd and probably objectively worse, but it haz lurmz!!! and thus it often scores more damage just on account of a single LRM-70 boat in this deck (whether that damage actually helps us win more often or not is up for discussion).

Edited by DavidStarr, 28 July 2017 - 12:01 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

IS need tonnage advantage still because clans win more at puggle level long range poke trading.

not really.

the whole reason theyre taking tonnage away from IS is because they dont need tonnage advantage anymore

[DavidStarr]

Khobai, on 28 July 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

theyre taking tonnage away from IS

Indeed? Are they taking it away?

[Khobai]

Quote

Indeed? Are they taking it away?

yep -15 tons

[LordFatman]

Steel Claws, on 27 July 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

IS also has huge quirks. Try shooting 3 or 4 clan ERL or large pulse at the same time and see what happens. IS mechs can do this with ease. IS tech may weigh more but it tends to also work far better than clan tech.

ya but your damage and range kill us be for we shoot back I get damaged by clan crap at over 2500 out well out of is weapon range

[DavidStarr]

LordFatman, on 28 July 2017 - 12:27 AM, said:

I get damaged by clan crap at over 2500 out well out of is weapon range

Only if by "damaged" you mean scratched. I don't believe any meaningful damage is possible at that range. 1000-1200 m - sure. But what the heck are you doing being exposed at that range?.. Use terrain!

I do agree that the IS quirks are generally well-placed and the mechs need them.

[LordFatman]

Khobai, on 28 July 2017 - 12:13 AM, said:

yep -15 tons

claners wont easy mod all the time they don't wont it to ever get harder for them I play both mechs in quick play and clan mechs are way easier I always do more damage but makes game to easy

DavidStarr, on 28 July 2017 - 12:30 AM, said:

Only if by "damaged" you mean scratched. I don't believe any meaningful damage is possible at that range. 1000-1200 m - sure. But what the heck are you doing being exposed at that range?.. Use terrain!

I do agree that the IS quirks are generally well-placed and the mechs need them.

I take 2 to 3 % every shot so tell me when I get into range whats left of my mech

[DavidStarr]

LordFatman, on 28 July 2017 - 12:34 AM, said:

I play both mechs in quick play and clan mechs are way easier I always do more damage but makes game to easy

I don't doubt that is entirely true for you, but for me that's absolutely not the case. I have about the same stats in my favorite clan mechs as in my favorite IS mechs, across all weights from 50 to 100 tons.

LordFatman, on 28 July 2017 - 12:34 AM, said:

I take 2 to 3 % every shot so tell me when I get into range whats left of my mech

Why, then, have I never had this issue when dropping for IS?..

[LordFatman]

with xls half the weight of our lfi you get more tons for weapons that do more damage and shoot farther and way less so even more of them try putting 12 to 14 lasers on a is mech

[DavidStarr]

LordFatman, on 28 July 2017 - 12:50 AM, said:

try putting 12 to 14 lasers on a is mech

I dare say extremely few clan mechs are good with 12-14 lasers, and most of them - only with small lasers. Because you also need heatsinks, all of them.

[LordFatman]

and your small do same damage as are med if not more because they fire faster

[DavidStarr]

LordFatman, on 28 July 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

and your small do same damage as are med if not more because they fire faster

They do less DPS (damage per second) per slot, but more per ton. Possibly more per heat as well, not sure. But they're balanced through their short range. Besides, IS now has ER-SL, too.

Edited by DavidStarr, 28 July 2017 - 01:36 AM.

[LordFatman]

DavidStarr, on 28 July 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

They do less DPS (damage per second) per slot, but more per ton. Possibly more per heat as well, not sure. But they're balanced through their short range. Besides, IS now has ER-SL, too.

ARE ER SMALL ONLY 3.25 DAM YOURS 5 DAM NOT THE SAME NOT EVEN CLOSE OUR ER MED 5 DAM

[SmokeGuar]

Less heat, shorter burn time, more combat effective, more quirks on mechs to absorb higher damage. But lets forget all that because damage is all that matters.

[LordFatman]

the amount of damage and the more extra tons you get for weapons make quirks useless no is mech can hold 12 or more over powered lasers even and med do more heat then your small with same damage

Edited by LordFatman, 30 July 2017 - 09:03 AM.

[Adamski]

I've had more close matches this weekend in FP than ever before.

Of course PGI has to screw it all up to appease a vocal minority of whiners, and totally ignore balance.

I cannot friggen believe how long they allow Clan dominance while jumping to stomp out any percieved edge the IS manages to eek out.

I'm still waiting for PGI to create as many brawling maps as they have vomited out sniping maps.

[LordFatman]

clan mechs cost more they want people to keep playing pay to win and buying overpowered mech for easy wins

[Adamski]

LordFatman, on 30 July 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

clan mechs cost more they want people to keep playing pay to win and buying overpowered mech for easy wins

Clan and IS mechs cost the same, the Clans just come with all the upgrades stock, and the IS has to add them after market. With the LFE the IS may actually cost more now.

I would say its lazyness with how long they let Clan dominance fester, but they always rush to overnerf the IS if they think they might dominate.

Seriously, why jump to nerf it 15 tons, why not try 5 ton increments ? Screw PGI and their hamfisted development of what could have been a much better game.

[Bonzai VI]

@Adamski

PGI should actually normalize 250 tons for both sides instead of just putting IS at 250.

@LordFatman

Oh my god you're just bad... 0.9 kdr and w/l in qp after over 550 games? Sry but standard IS medium lasers are far stronger than Clan smalls. Simply look at the range and duration, the two most important stats and then rest of the stats.
And Clan mechs still don't cost more since you've got to outfit the IS mech...

Besides that, IS wins in every range bracket. Clan just has no real way to compete anymore. Extreme range? C-PPCs vs IS-ERLL. If you for one second think that a whk/hbr with 4/2 ppcs has ANY chance against a battlemaster with 6 ERLL, or my warhammer with 5 ERLL, you gotta learn the game from scratch.
If you now think that i forgot C-ERLL, pls don't drop in CW. They've got such a horrendous duration and ghostheat limit that they just aren't in any way good.

In medium range there is the standard laser vomit build, lrg-pulse and medium lasers and Ultra10s now. You can even combine those two since the UAC10 runs so hot. The low duration of the lasers and only two bullets of the ultra10 are pretty harsh. Shoot, twist, trade won.

Close range? IS Srms do more dmg than clan srms. Isn't that enough? But now there are ultra10s and ultra20s.

In itself it doesn't look like IS is stronger, but the LFE + hitboxes on some mechs + the quirks.
Just FYI IS gets more CD out of the skilltree.

@FatMan (again)

Clan is not op. Clan got overnerfed with the last two patches, while IS has got EXTREME buffs with the LFE and Light-Ferro.

But IS still isn't much stronger than Clan, but it's really close to that.

Both sides are still fun and I'm going to continue playing both sides, but please use your brain instead of mindlessly bashing everything and using emotions instead of thoughts.

Edited by Bonzai VI, 31 July 2017 - 03:10 AM.

[SmokeGuar]

This Clan OP myth keeps living. And new players are absorbing propaganda at commendable rate.

Previous FW iterations had clear goal, Clan invasion of IS space. Clans started with few planets, IS with lot. Then you had teams that wanted to attack, not defend. ( FW was mechanically different back then, for newer players).
Result was that lot of FW oriented teams ( mercs ) spent more time on Clan side than IS side. Last 2 years that I have played this game, Clan boats have, in general, not been OP on FW. Teams on Clan side were. IS mechs were buffed over Clan mechs. When those teams went IS side, it was like pressing autowin button. And same problem exists again.