121 replies to this topic

[Dogstar]

Ced Riggs, on 23 June 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

Quad LRM15 Maulers with 2 medium lasers

Just on this one point - that Mauler has specific LRM15 quirks so boating them is definitely the best way to play it.

[Brain Cancer]

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LRMs require skill to be able to be effective in every scenario, however in certain scenarios they are effective even in the hands of a complete derper, thus all the no-skill comments, that are justified in most cases because for every guy bringing lurms and knowing how to use them there are two dozen ez-mode no-skill guys with absolutely zero clue

And that is my point. LRMs are actually skill-required, but a no-skill lurmer is the most obviously dysfunctional player in MWO. Nothing says "I am a brainless scrub" like any number of LRM fail stories do. Nothing apparently fools the no-skilled that they are indeed "gitting gud" like those easy shots on Polar or being what an aggressive team wins with in spite of their derp anchor, whereupon they end up somewhere skill is actually required and the fail whale flails once more.

By comparison, the guy blazing away at tickle range with his arsenal going "I'm helping!" is considerably less obvious, cause hey. Look, laser hitting target!

The last time this happened, I was at about 500m pumping LPL and LRM fire into a target (direct fire, though I was flanking him)with my Orion IIC and a guy -behind- me was pew pewing his medium lasers at the same target. It took longer for my target to die than I expected, given the help and despite the laservomit, I easily got the kill.

I didn't realize until I checked the minimap that he was about 100m behind me. That would be about 600m. With IS medium lasers. GJ, laserboy. Derp like this is far less obvious, because it LOOKS like they're doing the right thing.

Being an LRM boat, I often get interesting vantage points to see people not thriving.

[PhoenixFire55]

Brain Cancer, on 03 July 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

And that is my point. LRMs are actually skill-required ...

Skill required compared to what? ... Other weapons? ... No. Because the medium lasers from 600m guy is going to suck every single game regardless of how good or bad his teammates are. While average LRM-joederp is going to rack up a lot of dmg and possibly kills on a good team while still being exactly the same kind of a clueless teammate.

[Humpday]

Interesting, I've not had any issues with LRM spam. I mean it got hot right after the ST drop, but now people have backed off from what I've seen.

As for combating them ...well unless i somehow potatoed my way into open line of sight with no cover, I've never really had issues with LRMs(defensively)...

Just run toward your teammates lol, the attacker will usually get squirreled and flip targets...when in doubt...face plant into building/cliff/rock/was ect...

[Brain Cancer]

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Skill required compared to what? ... Other weapons? ... No. Because the medium lasers from 600m guy is going to suck every single game regardless of how good or bad his teammates are. While average LRM-joederp is going to rack up a lot of dmg and possibly kills on a good team while still being exactly the same kind of a clueless teammate

Not even compared to. It's just easier to not look stupid with direct fire weapons. There's a performance floor for LRMs (that bad players can still plunge below, see the guy who continually barrages your cover for a minute straight despite getting no hits, because LEL I HAVE A LOCK), but it's a slow, guided weapon.

Your team is still winning in spite of the lurmtato. He's mindlessly pummeling his parasitic locks, getting maximum spread because IDF ONRY, showing no target prioritization because he'll just shoot at the first lock, virtually zero positioning. You would probably win even if he'd disconnected, because the only reason he's dealing damage is because the rest of the team has turned the opposition into a disorganized, flushed out mess and your "helper" is just pointing at anything in range and DURRR I PUSH BUTTONS! In fact, because he can't prioritize, more of your team will die because he's still got two salvos incoming on the smoking wreck of one opponent while someone else who actually needed help is getting their shiny metal butt kicked. In fact, because he's desperate for kills, he'll actually keep firing blindly at whatever locks he gets in the hopes of vulturing a kill instead of actually doing his job.

No discretion. No prediction. No positioning. No actual idea of their role. No skill, other than firing the weapon at the red square- and frequently no idea if they're even HITTING.

He's still a no-skill player, a walking (assuming he moves) turret.

[Bishop Steiner]

I agree, it's ridiculous how bad LRMs continue to be, and maybe even more so how many long time players appear to be bad enough to keep dying to them.

Cover. Concealment. Terrain and Buildings. AMS. ECM. Upcoming Stealth Armor.

I have the RIGHT, dammit to stand out in the open and play without those cowardly LRM mechs shooting me for my enviable display of machismo!

[PhoenixFire55]

Brain Cancer, on 03 July 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

Not even compared to. It's just easier to not look stupid with direct fire weapons.

Whether you "look" stupid or not is irrelevant, since everyone can see end-game score table. Besides, you've clearly shown that one can look just as stupid with direct fire. I've seen medium lasers being fired at targets 1k+ away.

Bishop Steiner, on 03 July 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

I have the RIGHT, dammit to stand out in the open and play without those cowardly LRM mechs shooting me for my enviable display of machismo!

As pointed out already ... several times ... when standing in the open, LRMs are the last thing you should worry about, because a dozen Gauss slugs and about twice as many ERPPCs are already on their way to wreck your face, and they are by far faster than your precious missiles.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 03 July 2017 - 01:53 PM.

[Tordin]

I hate being overwhelmed by LURMS myself but.. I then know I did something wrong to be hit in the first place! Figure out what and adapt.
And another thing, I also love to use lurms in the right circumstances. Especially for annoying haters to no end *rubrubrub*

[Bishop Steiner]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 July 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

Whether you "look" stupid or not is irrelevant, since everyone can see end-game score table. Besides, you've clearly shown that one can look just as stupid with direct fire. I've seen medium lasers being fired at targets 1k+ away.



As pointed out already ... several times ... when standing in the open, LRMs are the last thing you should worry about, because a dozen Gauss slugs and about twice as many ERPPCs are already on their way to wreck your face, and they are by far faster than your precious missiles.

and my point, obviously went over your head...

[Brain Cancer]

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Whether you "look" stupid or not is irrelevant, since everyone can see end-game score table. Besides, you've clearly shown that one can look just as stupid with direct fire. I've seen medium lasers being fired at targets 1k+ away.

I say they both require skill, although it's different kinds of skill, and it's just easier to see LRM fail than any other weapon in the game.

I mean, you're often watching a wave of missiles so slow you can frequently hit the guy launching it twice before they actually arrive, majestically exploding all over cover because the lurmtato lost lock less than a second after launch. By comparison, the guy whiffing his AC fire is a blink-and-you-miss-it experience.

You're right in that you can always see fail in the endgame results, but seriously, on this board, do you see people whine about laserderping or firing your Gauss rifles like your pilot was a crosseyed, spastic seizure victim?

Nope. LRMs, LRMs, LRMs.

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As pointed out already ... several times ... when standing in the open, LRMs are the last thing you should worry about, because a dozen Gauss slugs and about twice as many ERPPCs are already on their way to wreck your face, and they are by far faster than your precious missiles.

So, you'd agree the LRM is seriously underpowered, right?

I mean, anything else you strapped 20+ tons of guns to, you'd at least expect to worry if it shot your way. Or perhaps even if it was to be accurate enough to hit you.

[Birthright]

Anyone who defends LRMs has brain cancer.

Oh wait.

[PhoenixFire55]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 July 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

and my point, obviously went over your head...

Your point in half of your 45k+ posts is always the same ... waa waa waa my favorite lurms are too weak. Its also been said countless times already that you can't buff LRMs to make em on par with other weapons in higher skill tiers without making them absurdly OP in potatoeland. Likewise, its been said countless times that they won't change LRM core mechanics, because reasons (likely too dumb to come up with anything half decent). I.e., we are once again wasting time. That is the only point here and in other hundreds of Lurms this and Lurms that threads.

[PhoenixFire55]

Brain Cancer, on 03 July 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

So, you'd agree the LRM is seriously underpowered, right?

No. Because I think that if we had more diverse maps, i.e. more maps with no cover at all and more maps with cover everywhere and no open ground at all, then all the "underpowered" weapons like LRMs and SRMs would magically be balanced out with everything else without the need to change them one bit. The 500m alphawarrior pokefest is ret@rded, but it is brought upon us by map design, not because of certain weaponry being too powerful compared to the rest.

As for people not complaining about Gauss and whatnot ... there is a 'waa waa waa nerf PPFLD' thread on the same page. You happily seemed to have missed it tho ... smh.

[Brain Cancer]

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Anyone who defends LRMs has brain cancer.

Oh wait.

Even I don't defend them as being good weapons. That's sorta the whole point.

The best you can do is use them in ways that are less bad, to succeed with them in spite of the undeserved flaws. They need improvements, straightforward ones. Velocity, spread, the ability not to be instantly useless because you entered someplace with a roof.

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No. Because I think that if we had more diverse maps, i.e. more maps with no cover at all and more maps with cover everywhere and no open ground at all, then all the "underpowered" weapons like LRMs and SRMs would magically be balanced out with everything else without the need to change them one bit. The 500m alphawarrior pokefest is ret@rded, but it is brought upon us by map design, not because of certain weaponry being too powerful compared to the rest.

I mean, I can point at maps where cover is weak or strong already. Look at Polar, an inevitable low-cover but popular choice. What does it have to do with the fact that people will still rotate between laser/AC/PPC+Gauss as viable choices in all of them? And seriously, SRMs are underpowered? Maybe it's just me seeing splatmechs in every match raking in the damage/kills.

[Cementi]

There are plenty of LRM counters.....use them.

Complaining about LRM's and not using radar derp, AMS and cover would be like someone complaining about Lasers being pinpoint damage but refusing to torso twist to spread damage.

[Koniving]

Nathaniel Johns, on 23 June 2017 - 06:06 AM, said:

Just seems to me like Lrms were not this crazy few years ago. Hell even a year. Like it's
Become this whole new thing. Sit back lock on and enjoy. Press a few buttons. Got a kill woo woo.

Years ago.

They looked awesome, at least.

Somewhat more devastating with the missiles bloating out the sun.

[PhoenixFire55]

Brain Cancer, on 03 July 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

I mean, I can point at maps where cover is weak or strong already. Look at Polar, an inevitable low-cover but popular choice. What does it have to do with the fact that people will still rotate between laser/AC/PPC+Gauss as viable choices in all of them?

Because perhaps they have no idea what map they are going to drop into? And since Polar is just one map from a dozen of them the chances of getting it are rather low, no? ... Now, if there was a dozen maps like it in rotation, better yet if you can choose a loadout after you know what map you are dropping into ...

On Polar lurms were even used in comp play. That should tell you smth.

But then again, this is also a waste of time discussion, since our dear devs can barely make one map every two years or so ... if we are lucky that is.

[TravelingMaster]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 July 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Because perhaps they have no idea what map they are going to drop into? And since Polar is just one map from a dozen of them the chances of getting it are rather low, no? ... Now, if there was a dozen maps like it in rotation, better yet if you can choose a loadout after you know what map you are dropping into ...

On Polar lurms were even used in comp play. That should tell you smth.

But then again, this is also a waste of time discussion, since our dear devs can barely make one map every two years or so ... if we are lucky that is.

A number of issues regarding LRMs and other weapons would be partially rectified if we could match loadouts and mechs to the maps we get dropped on. I can't tell you how many times I've had a long-range mech dropped on Mining Collective or some other optimally close-range map with lots of cover. Or a short-mid range mech dropped on Polar Highlands or something. Or a laser vomit build dropped on a hot map. Or a long-range build dropped on a night-time map. The list goes on.

All PGI would have to do is set it up to where you pick the map and *then* select the mech to lock into the drop. It's rare to find a mech and build that's good on all the available maps, so it's ridiculous that PGI forces you to pick a mech before you search for a match and map. The downside to this is that it would do things like guarantee that Polar Highlands would become a LRM-boat convention.

[Kumakichi]

Cementi, on 03 July 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

There are plenty of LRM counters.....use them.

Complaining about LRM's and not using radar derp, AMS and cover would be like someone complaining about Lasers being pinpoint damage but refusing to torso twist to spread damage.

Even on Polar you can use the terrain to avoid being targeted by LRM rain. Being in a Lurmyfest isn't so bad, watching your team mates taking lots of avoidable LRM damage is concerning though.

Edited by Kumakichi, 03 July 2017 - 06:04 PM.

[Khobai]

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There are plenty of LRM counters.....use them.

except potatos dont know how to counter lrms. while experienced players counter them to the point where theyre useless.

the whole problem with LRMs is that binary nature. theyre either a super potato killing weapon or a weapon that does next to nothing. and that problem is even further compounded by the fact that some maps are good for lrms and other maps arnt.

PGI needs to find a way to make LRMs less brutal at killing clueless noobs and more effective vs experienced veterans. Its also important for ATMs not sucking too.

Edited by Khobai, 03 July 2017 - 06:41 PM.