158 replies to this topic

[Zergling]

Brain Cancer, on 03 August 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I actually get embarrassed when I end up with 4 KMDD/kills+ and realize most of my team scored 200 or less. Especially if we lose.

Those sorts of losses make me rage hard; the most notable one I've had recently was in my Annihilator 1A, where I scored 6 kills, 4 of which were solo, along with 970 damage.

And 8 players on my team failed to reach 300 damage.

Edited by Zergling, 03 August 2017 - 05:06 PM.

[Bigbacon]

So how do you lower your tier? Im nearing 2 and honestly i do t deserve to be there but i keep getting closer everyday.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Coolant, on 03 August 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

On any game, on any game mode, at any time, the best players can die just minutes in the game due to factors beyond their control. Their scores may or may not reflect their ability as a pilot. It's why I am a big advocate of unlimited respawn. It is the Great Equalizer. Have a bad 1st life? Have a great 1st life? Over the course of the game and respawns it all evens out and your final score reflects your average.

I agree. I myself had a match where my team decided Nascar'ing was more important than protecting the base and since I was in a slow assault, trying not to get left behind in the Nascar, I hardly managed to contribute anything to the match when we made a much too late, mad dash back to defend our base. I have also been headshot and killed before even firing a shot before but these sort of scores should be few and far between for any experienced player. I mean if one person on my team didn't break 100 damage, I would say it was just bad luck but when you got 3-4 players on your team not breaking 100 damage, that isn't just bad luck, that is bad skill.

The issue I am having it most of my matches are like this anymore and it is just frustrating. My teams are scattered all over the map or are blobbed up so bad that they are tripping over each other and dying more to friendly fire than to the enemy. I mean it is almost Keystone Cops or Benny Hill levels of comical and pathetic game play and I don't understand why. I mean I haven't seen this level of incompetence since back when I was ranked Tier 4 and only had a few complaints all through tier 3 and 2. It wasn't until I hit Tier 1 that the wheels seemed to have come off. Lately it seems I have only managed to be on about 1 competent team out of about every 5-10 matches.

So either everyone is such a good player that their egos are getting in the way and causing them to play in a fashion without any semblance of skill or there is something wrong with the MM and it is toss a few token Tier 1s on teams of primarily 4s and 5s and matching them up against teams comprised of mostly 2s and 3s and expecting those Tier 1s to carry the newbies to a win. Sorry but even the best players in this game have to have at least a semi-competent team to back them up. At least this is how it seems and feels but who knows, maybe it is just bad luck but wow, day in, day out, 80% of your teams being like this is sure a hell of alot of bad luck if this is so.

[Kjudoon]

Prosperity Park, on 03 August 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

My tier 1 matches from last night were a motley medly showing no clear pattern. Several stomps in both directions, several close fights to the end, and my performance ranged from 38 damage swamp-death to several 700 damage matches with resounding victory.

So, tier 1 is not all bad.

I was in some of those, on both sides, and clearly shouldn't have been. No matter what MM says about tiers.

[Kjudoon]

Bigbacon, on 03 August 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

So how do you lower your tier? Im nearing 2 and honestly i do t deserve to be there but i keep getting closer everyday.

In a win the worst you can do is keep even. In a loss, the best player gets a minor raise. After that, it's just house odds and "gambler's ruin" to get you to tier 1 where the "Peter Principle" will sooner or later make you quit. Or there is the chance of a game-rage induced embolism and you become one of the cult. (One of us... pewpewpew... one of us... dakkadakkadakk...)

When they realized that people would throw matches to get a lower tier, they made it mathematically difficult/impossible to keep that trend going and of course have the ban-hammer ready with community reporting (supposedly. Don't know if anyone has been banned for suicide or non-participation yet, but makes people feel like something's being done.
Lather, rinse, repeat... (Of course this assumes Harmony Gold doesn't win the lawsuit and nuke this entire game for malice and profit.)

[sceii]

Zergling, on 03 August 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Those sorts of losses make me rage hard; the most notable one I've had recently was in my Annihilator 1A, where I scored 6 kills, 4 of which were solo, along with 970 damage.

And 8 players on my team failed to reach 300 damage.

Git good then, kill more enemies, win games.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Prosperity Park, on 03 August 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

The "Tier 1 Matches All Suck" conspiracy is a little old. If you think matches are worse because they feature far fewer players who don't know the keybinds, then I feel sorry for you.

I, on the other hand, do not feel that matches decrease in quality as more experienced players are introduced to the match. I like matches where everyone already has a familiarity with the game, and I don't require the harvest of inexperienced players to enjoy myself.

really makes you think

[The Lighthouse]

When I die early, I usually checks everyone's loadouts.

Literally almost always half of people's loadouts are... well... tier 5 categories. I am talking about things like lrm-boat spirit bear, machinegun mauler with just couple of lasers, etc.

And utterly surprisingly at least 1~2 people do not know about max-range and min-range. I too often seeing players with non-ERPPC go close to the target and try engage in CQC. Or I see a player with just normal medium lasers and shoot at the target from 600m+

But, after a while. I kind of understand. Let's face it, this game is not typical F2P game. It's really utterly complex game compared to other games like world of tanks. Of course things like ghost heat, skill trees and arbitrary stuffs also really make the game far more confusing than it should be.

[Shifty McSwift]

The Lighthouse, on 04 August 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

When I die early, I usually checks everyone's loadouts.

Literally almost always half of people's loadouts are... well... tier 5 categories. I am talking about things like lrm-boat spirit bear, machinegun mauler with just couple of lasers, etc.

I find that gets a little depressing after a while, say if you are used to fighting to a degree and expect a cetain amount of damage support, but when you die and look at the actual loadouts supporting you.... It just makes you want to never be that first guy to die ever again lol.

[Weeny Machine]

Foxfire kadrpg, on 03 August 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Did anyone ever consider that maybe Teir 1 Players ARE a little better,

Jup, but there are T1 players and there are T1 players. With that I mean, there are really good T1 players, then there are mediocre ones like me and then there are truly bad ones. Simply because eventually everyone will end up T1

I wouldn't mind being labeled T2. My ego can abide that :)

Edited by Bush Hopper, 04 August 2017 - 01:15 AM.

[Zergling]

sceii, on 04 August 2017 - 12:35 AM, said:

Git good then, kill more enemies, win games.

I need to be killing 12 enemies to win those sorts of games.

The Lighthouse, on 04 August 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

When I die early, I usually checks everyone's loadouts.

Literally almost always half of people's loadouts are... well... tier 5 categories. I am talking about things like lrm-boat spirit bear, machinegun mauler with just couple of lasers, etc.

And utterly surprisingly at least 1~2 people do not know about max-range and min-range. I too often seeing players with non-ERPPC go close to the target and try engage in CQC. Or I see a player with just normal medium lasers and shoot at the target from 600m+

I loled hard at this enemy Timber Wolf I encountered a week or so ago in my Cougar: his loadout was 1x Gauss, 2x ALRM15.
I overheated and shutdown, and this nublet walked up to my stationary mech, then fired his LRMs into me at point blank range.

Then the next enemy mech I saw in the same battle? A fresh Dire Wolf with 10x ER Large Lasers; he'd been hiding far behind his team the entire battle.

Edited by Zergling, 04 August 2017 - 01:30 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Zergling, on 03 August 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Those sorts of losses make me rage hard; the most notable one I've had recently was in my Annihilator 1A, where I scored 6 kills, 4 of which were solo, along with 970 damage.

And 8 players on my team failed to reach 300 damage.

yeah know these matches when you suddenly go on a 2minute killing spree kill 4 people with laods of solos that require your entire Focus. And when you are doen you think, ok now we should easily win this, but suddenly 10 of your 12 teammates are down and you think: WTF just happened to them, I had 4 gyus over there so that was a 11vs8 doing something somewhere else?

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 August 2017 - 01:28 AM.

[sceii]

Zergling, on 04 August 2017 - 01:25 AM, said:

I need to be killing 12 enemies to win those sorts of games.

[Zergling]

sceii, on 04 August 2017 - 01:57 AM, said:

Heh, I'm honestly not a great player. Above average for sure, but not good enough to reliably carry battles.

Edited by Zergling, 04 August 2017 - 03:19 AM.

[Reptilizer]

Roadbuster, on 03 August 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

That's true, but if people focus on 1 mech, that also means they don't shoot another mech. And that mech should use this fact to deal damage to the other team.
What happens instead is that these mechs don't engage and watch their teammates die.
And that's something a skiled player wouldn't do. Because that's the right moment to strike back and deal alot of damage to the enemy without taking damage yourself.

If your team has a couple of players who can't break 100 dmg, that means they don't know:
a. the map and where they are
b. how to aim
c. how to shoot
d. the position of enemy mechs
e. the position of friendly mechs

And all these things are important for a skilled player.
Even if you get ambushed in an assault mech and know you won't get out of it alive, dealing 100dmg should be no problem.

Can you mess up and end with subpar dmg/score? Sure, it happens to everyone.
Can the same thing happen to half of your team? Not if they have some common sense and a slight clue what's going on, which seems to be hard these days.

Just an example from last night:
Team is informed by scouts where the enemy team is and where it's headed.
Team doesn't react at all and just sits there, ignoring the reported flanking mechs.
When the enemy team finally pushed from 2 sides, I heard surprised screams over voicecom, asking where the enemy mechs came from.

All valid points and you will not get me contradicting you there.

But the conclusion drawn from this is just wrong. Cooking it down on "potatoes with less than 100 damage" is blaming the symptom.

It is all about coordination and positioning in the higher tiers. Which team sees the other one first and from a better firing position? Is the right target called?

A mech goes down in one alpha from a coordinated group of 5. If he/she has superb reaction times it gets out one alpha on target. 70-80 damage max?
Then the "ambushed" team has to call targets, perhaps move into position, all before the next mech goes down within the next 5 seconds. If they are good, they make it in this timeframe and its even from there on. Just that you do not catch up when you are down two mechs in a high tier game.

Ttk is short, high tier games are decided fast and tend to snowball. The first 2-3 kills often determine the matchwinner. There are very few games that can be turned around.

tl;dr: Lopsided games are more common with skilled players. This is inherent to the system. Stop blaming low damage.

[The Lighthouse]

sceii, on 04 August 2017 - 12:35 AM, said:

Git good then, kill more enemies, win games.

This really reminds me of one professional Dota 2 players. His favorite hero is Magnus, and he is de-facto the best Magnus player ever existed in Dota 2. His understanding of the hero mechanics is something mere mortals could not comprehend.

But he never really managed to attend some of the biggest events for Dota 2, because rest of his team were utter trash.

Yes, so he played more, he got even better, more kills... but in the end he never made into International (the biggest tourney in Dota 2) because of his teammates, not because of himself.

Of course, the number of players in Dota 2 is mere 5, and in Dota 2, a 'carry' type hero actually may can handle entire other team if he is well-farmed.


And MWO has 12 players.

.....


Maybe, MAYBE if MWO was still 8 vs 8, I'd agree that 'git good' argument actually hold some water. But 12 vs 12? It is highly probable that I could be afk all game and my win/loss ratio would not change even a single bit.


Just admit already. Whether PGI wants it or not, this game just cannot be 'competitive' at all. A lot of stuffs actually work as counter-act to competitiveness of the game, and the game really should not be pushed as e-sports or be used as boasting how good you are in matches.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 04 August 2017 - 04:30 AM.

[Kyrie]

Shadowomega1, on 02 August 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

You kidding right? I was seeing this issue back when I was halfway through tier 3, all of tier 2, and all my time in tier 1.



If the matchmaker had a skill rating system like battlefield had it could balance teams around skill rating. Que has 4 players with skill rating over 400 split them 2 per team, 5 players skill rating over 300 but less then 400 2 on alpha team 3 on beta team. ETC ETC.

A proper matchmaker would also take into account the battle-value concept, which would be an expression of the mech's power on the battlefield independently of player skill, following the logic that:

Brilliantly good player in a crappy mech < Brilliantly good player in an optimized mech.

And that is where the logic breaks down and would cause matchmaking to explode into endless queues...

[Asym]

Viktor Drake, on 03 August 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

I agree. I myself had a match where my team decided Nascar'ing was more important than protecting the base and since I was in a slow assault, trying not to get left behind in the Nascar, I hardly managed to contribute anything to the match when we made a much too late, mad dash back to defend our base. I have also been headshot and killed before even firing a shot before but these sort of scores should be few and far between for any experienced player. I mean if one person on my team didn't break 100 damage, I would say it was just bad luck but when you got 3-4 players on your team not breaking 100 damage, that isn't just bad luck, that is bad skill.

The issue I am having it most of my matches are like this anymore and it is just frustrating. My teams are scattered all over the map or are blobbed up so bad that they are tripping over each other and dying more to friendly fire than to the enemy. I mean it is almost Keystone Cops or Benny Hill levels of comical and pathetic game play and I don't understand why. I mean I haven't seen this level of incompetence since back when I was ranked Tier 4 and only had a few complaints all through tier 3 and 2. It wasn't until I hit Tier 1 that the wheels seemed to have come off. Lately it seems I have only managed to be on about 1 competent team out of about every 5-10 matches.

So either everyone is such a good player that their egos are getting in the way and causing them to play in a fashion without any semblance of skill or there is something wrong with the MM and it is toss a few token Tier 1s on teams of primarily 4s and 5s and matching them up against teams comprised of mostly 2s and 3s and expecting those Tier 1s to carry the newbies to a win. Sorry but even the best players in this game have to have at least a semi-competent team to back them up. At least this is how it seems and feels but who knows, maybe it is just bad luck but wow, day in, day out, 80% of your teams being like this is sure a hell of alot of bad luck if this is so.

Again, for the last time, this is what PGI wants.....mindless, close up, thoughtless and actually meaningless BRAWLING... The era of "Rock-and-Sock'em-Robots" is here !!!! It is halarious to watch Ctimson Tide's tunnel with 16 players in the tunnel with LBX-20's, short range missles and RAC's in an all out "Picket's Charge" brawl. All that are left is pieces and a few, highly damaged mechs that are picked off by the survivors.... Over and Over and Over again. Skill: at 40 meters? Right. Sure does sell mechs though.....

All of their efforts in the past 6+ months has been to de-evolve the playstyle, the actual battlespace and gameplay dynamics.....

The skill tree changes, nerf's, quirk mods and lethality changes all are aimed at: reducing preceision in all aspects; increasing surviabilty and gameplay times, reductions in mobility and agility that can not be skill tree returned; increasing close combat multipliers while reducing long range weapons effects; introducing new, slow and heavily armoted mechs (sometimes called anchoring platforms); and, introducing new weapons systems that support linear, close quarters fighting styles..........

You are wondering why you can find a team anymore? You don't need a team anymore to achieve anything; and, many teams have already left or are now playing "other games" as their first choice games and MWO occasionally. With this reduction of skilled players, you now are experiencing all of the affects of a low population; which,very well increases the rejction versus the retention rates of new players......... Oh, you old salts will stay.........

The problem is, you very well might be pretty much alone. Just an opinion from someone looking in with an eye towards "systems" causes and effects....

[Ryllen Kriel]

As many wise forum-goers have said before, there isn't much to tier level, it's just an experience counter.

And to badly paraphrase a classic line from Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil;

"Like mother always said two tiers in a bucket, mother#$@! It."

[Spr1ggan]

Ryllen Kriel, on 04 August 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

As many wise forum-goers have said before, there isn't much to tier level, it's just an experience counter.

And to badly paraphrase a classic line from Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil;

"Like mother always said two tiers in a bucket, mother#$@! It."

Not to mention that Tiers 1 through 4 are all thrown into the same matches anyway. Not like it matters, every match goes one of two ways. A campfest or nascar.