216 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Ruar, on 16 August 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

I keep seeing people gripe about range... yet I consistently get in closer than 100m with a Quickdraw. Not sure how people running around in 90+KPH mechs find it difficult to get into close range.

It is not the problem of getting into range (I can do that also and usually get the drop on the enemy). What happens then is the problem. You need quite some uptime on the enemy. If they enemy team is not totally r3tarded, you suddenly get a huge alpha from a second mech.

In case you play a light mech, it takes ages to take down a heavy or assault opponent especially because it is next to impossible to get into the back or at least out of the firing arc of a heavy and most assaults because the agility stats of the lights are too low and heavies still turn like fat ballerinas.
Then you can enjoy to withdraw under fire of 2 mechs.

[Ruar]

Bush Hopper, on 17 August 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

It is not the problem of getting into range (I can do that also and usually get the drop on the enemy). What happens then is the problem. You need quite some uptime on the enemy. If they enemy team is not totally r3tarded, you suddenly get a huge alpha from a second mech.

In case you play a light mech, it takes ages to take down a heavy or assault opponent especially because it is next to impossible to get into the back or at least out of the firing arc of a heavy and most assaults because the agility stats of the lights are too low and heavies still turn like fat ballerinas.
Then you can enjoy to withdraw under fire of 2 mechs.

Except... it doesn't take that long to take down an opponent when boating MGs. I watched it happen when the MGs were on test and it was easier for the lights to get in close.

If if a light is attacking 2v1 then it's a problem with the pilot and not the weapons. No one is saying a light can charge into the enemy formation and get three kills before running out. However, since most maps have the effect of splitting a team into small sections it becomes very easy for a light to focus on already damage areas or separate mechs and kill them quickly with a zero heat weapon doing nearly as much DPS as a RAC5.

[Admiral-Dan]

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

it becomes very easy for a light to focus on already damage areas

So you want a nerf on MGs because they make it easier for lights to destroy heavily damaged Mechs?

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

weapon doing nearly as much DPS as a RAC5.

Btw. IS Lights can carry RAC5:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8766573c8596d9c

So if you think IS Lights are ballistically underarmed, have fun.

[Wildstreak]

Antares102, on 15 August 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

Anybody notice a pattern?

Yeah, IS got screwed again since all the MG boating Lights now are Clan.
Expect topics on why IS needs a 6-8 MG Light even if fictional variant.

[Admiral-Dan]

Wildstreak, on 17 August 2017 - 04:01 AM, said:

Yeah, IS got screwed again

Yeah, screwed again like with civil war tech where they got all the new tech and didn’t lose all the quirks which should compensate for their tech disadvantage.
Oh, wait…

[Luminis]

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

However, since most maps have the effect of splitting a team into small sections it becomes very easy for a light to focus on already damage areas or separate mechs and kill them quickly with a zero heat weapon doing nearly as much DPS as a RAC5.

Killing Assaults that got separated from their entire team (which they shouldn't) is something Lights have been doing for ages. Same with stalking and finishing severely damaged 'Mechs. This isn't something that's unique to the LMG MLX or ACH.

[HGAK47]

Are the new MG boats effective? - Yes they are.

Are they OP? - I do not believe so.

[Ruar]

I love the word games. I didn't say anything about heavy damage, I said already damaged sections because they stick out onto the rag doll and become focus points.

As for IS lights fitting a RAC5... it's an argument that overlooks the fact HMGS don't jam or overheat butnprov8de the same level of dps. Yes, the HMG is short range but that's a moot argument 9n a mech that is able to easily get I to close range.

The simple truth is being able to boat 5+ clan HMG is too much. The heavier IS versigns are harder to boat and the mechs that can carry them are big. Clan mechs are able to mount additional weapons due to the weight and end up with great sustained, no heat fps at the cost of having to be close. Which doesn't matter since lights can get close with ease.

I would put a hard cap of 3 of any one type of MG. Mix them to fill in a bunch of ballistic points, but neither IS or clan should be able to boat the MGs due to the way MWO works differentlyou than tabletop.

Edited by Ruar, 17 August 2017 - 04:45 AM.

[Admiral-Dan]

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

I love the word games. I didn't say anything about heavy damage, I said already damaged sections because they stick out onto the rag doll and become focus points.

MGs are bad against armor they are only good against structure. Sections which have lost all of their armor and are down to just structure are heavy damaged.

[DivineTomatoes]

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

I would put a hard cap of 3 of any one type of MG. Mix them to fill in a bunch of ballistic points, but neither IS or clan should be able to boat the MGs due to the way MWO works differentlyou than tabletop.

So you want to nerf the...

Spider 5k
Urbanmech R60
Ember
Huginn
Cicada-3C
Arrow
Vipers
Shadowcats
Novas

That's just a few that would be ****** if pgi implemented your idiocy.

[Whipley]

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

I love the word games. I didn't say anything about heavy damage, I said already damaged sections because they stick out onto the rag doll and become focus points.

As for IS lights fitting a RAC5... it's an argument that overlooks the fact HMGS don't jam or overheat butnprov8de the same level of dps. Yes, the HMG is short range but that's a moot argument 9n a mech that is able to easily get I to close range.

First, pilots should be focusing on already damaged areas on mechs, that's the game. Nothing new there. That's why we have a rag doll in the first place.

Second, unless it's a light that is swooping in to target an isolated slow mover, there is always going to be risk involved in getting close to an enemy mech. You're going to be targeted by other enemies, and a big hit or two is gonna wreck your whole day.

The main issue I've seen is people simply sweeping lasers over a light, spreading their damage out so much, and missing totally with much of their burn. Yeah, hitting a fast moving Target can be very challenging, but try to slow down a little and take your time in aiming. If lights are really wrecking your fun, consider running a streak boat. Be your team's light hunter.

[HGAK47]

Reaver2145, on 17 August 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

So you want to nerf the...

Spider 5k
Urbanmech R60
Ember
Huginn
Cicada-3C
Arrow
Vipers
Shadowcats
Novas

That's just a few that would be ****** if pgi implemented your idiocy.

Anyone touches a Spider and there will be hell to pay for! Unless its for sweet sweet buffs, the 5V needs those.

[CFC Conky]

How effective are machine guns against light mechs? The solution to all this is pretty simple, keep something back to tackle the lights, protect the heavies/assaults instead of charging off to get solo kills.

Mg boating isn't as big a problem as is poor teamwork.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Bigbacon]

Bush Hopper, on 17 August 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

It is not the problem of getting into range (I can do that also and usually get the drop on the enemy). What happens then is the problem. You need quite some uptime on the enemy. If they enemy team is not totally r3tarded, you suddenly get a huge alpha from a second mech.

In case you play a light mech, it takes ages to take down a heavy or assault opponent especially because it is next to impossible to get into the back or at least out of the firing arc of a heavy and most assaults because the agility stats of the lights are too low and heavies still turn like fat ballerinas.
Then you can enjoy to withdraw under fire of 2 mechs.

you just MG the crap out of legs and stuff. I swear lots of people remove plenty of leg armor and put no armor on the rear of the mechs. you hump its leg like a dog and you get a sweet buff of all the team damage the enemy mech takes.

[Luminis]

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

I love the word games. I didn't say anything about heavy damage, I said already damaged sections because they stick out onto the rag doll and become focus points.

As AlphaEtOmega said, no armour = heavily damaged, from my point of view. What's a heavily damaged component in your book? Cherry red?

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

Which doesn't matter since lights can get close with ease.

Dunno what to tell you. Maybe they easily close in on some players, but that doesn't mean that's true in all cases. I usually pilot Assaults and I certainly didn't feel like Lights have an easy time closing in on me these last few days. Quite the opposite, I blew a few overzealous MLX pilots up who thought they were in a god mode 'Mech. Stick with your team as best you can, keep your situational awareness up and know your maps so you can judge what cover a Light could use to approach.

Also, let's not forget one thing: Your average Assault can blow an ACH's or MLX's CT or ST up in a single alpha.

I don't know man. Basically, everything that made Lights arguably the weakest class in the game is still in place, as far as I can tell. Maybe the MLX and ACH are overperforming compared to other Lights. Need a little more time to get a feel for that. Regardless, I'm not convinced the MLX and ACH are the OP insta-gibbers they're made out to be.

[Y E O N N E]

Luminis, on 17 August 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

I don't know man. Basically, everything that made Lights arguably the weakest class in the game is still in place, as far as I can tell. Maybe the MLX and ACH are overperforming compared to other Lights. Need a little more time to get a feel for that. Regardless, I'm not convinced the MLX and ACH are the OP insta-gibbers they're made out to be.

They are not over-performing even a little bit. They are dangerous if they can engage a distracted target, otherwise they are piñatas.

[InfinityBall]

Bigbacon, on 17 August 2017 - 06:48 AM, said:

you just MG the crap out of legs and stuff. I swear lots of people remove plenty of leg armor and put no armor on the rear of the mechs. you hump its leg like a dog and you get a sweet buff of all the team damage the enemy mech takes.

Isn't having lots of leg armor stripped the default design of most heavies and assaults?

[Ruar]

Reaver2145, on 17 August 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

So you want to nerf the...

Spider 5k
Urbanmech R60
Ember
Huginn
Cicada-3C
Arrow
Vipers
Shadowcats
Novas

That's just a few that would be ****** if pgi implemented your idiocy.

I said a hardcap on each type so you can mix them. You'd still be able to mount 8 MGs but they would be split up between the three different types.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Reaver2145, on 17 August 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

So you want to nerf the...

Spider 5k
Urbanmech R60
Ember
Huginn
Cicada-3C
Arrow
Vipers
Shadowcats
Novas

That's just a few that would be ****** if pgi implemented your idiocy.

As a pilot of all those 'mechs (to varying degrees of both frequency and effect), I would be sad to see such a heavy-handed MG nerf.

[Basilisk222]

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

I love the word games. I didn't say anything about heavy damage, I said already damaged sections because they stick out onto the rag doll and become focus points.

Machine Guns are just really not effective at stripping armor, as my posts showed and explained, yes, they can do it, and yes they can chew through about 10 armor in a second, but the volume of ammo to do this is extremely inefficient. I have no idea why this is not being internalized. You use up 1000 ammo in 10 seconds with 8 HMG's. 1 ton. 10 seconds of fire. Feasibly, this means around 100 bullets per 10 armor/health. If that's the case, your max damage output with 3000 shots is about 300 damage. And that's going to include misses and spread as mechs twist and move. Keep in mind, 3 tons HMG on an MLX is goign to be problematic. This relegates you to smaller weapons, or very hot ones. All of which will make you very likely to be forced close or have unfavorable face time. Not to mention the MLX already is not a chunky light.

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

As for IS lights fitting a RAC5... it's an argument that overlooks the fact HMGS don't jam or overheat butnprov8de the same level of dps. Yes, the HMG is short range but that's a moot argument 9n a mech that is able to easily get I to close range.

You can't just dismiss forced range. The RAC 5 can begin firing considerably sooner in an engagement, in a map with open spaces like any of the snow maps or tourmaline, the MLX is at a huge disadvantage to close gaps to firing range safely. Let's also not forget that the MLX's arms are freaking enormous and easy to remove, even by accident.

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

The simple truth is being able to boat 5+ clan HMG is too much. The heavier IS versigns are harder to boat and the mechs that can carry them are big. Clan mechs are able to mount additional weapons due to the weight and end up with great sustained, no heat fps at the cost of having to be close. Which doesn't matter since lights can get close with ease.

For 10-30 seconds. at 121 KPH max, on a mech with the defense equivalent of armor made from bubble gum. With almost zero range. I'm sorry, this is a niche build for the MLX, An assassin, locust or firestarter, hell, even a commando should have very little issue in direct competition. A hunchie can disable a lynx in seconds, a shadow hawk has enough mobility to easily counter, and a centurion should make extremely quick work of a lynx, as would a an Urbie with a RAC 5. A ERLL Raven could snipe it out, and an Oxide has enough damage potential to cripple the lynx very quickly, and all of these mechs have more mobility or range than a MLX. As soon as you get to heavy class, a catapult would straight murder the lynx, a cataphract would tear it apart, and so on and so forth. The only way this chassis is over powered is if it's ignored or it gets the jump on you from behind. SAME WITH ANYTHING ELSE that is sub 40 tons.

Ruar, on 17 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

I would put a hard cap of 3 of any one type of MG. Mix them to fill in a bunch of ballistic points, but neither IS or clan should be able to boat the MGs due to the way MWO works differentlyou than tabletop.

Really? The Piranha stocks with 12 machine guns in TT. that's 3 hex range, no heat, 24 damage. If you ignore that piranha, you are going to have a VERY bad time.

To be honest, if /when that Piranha hits MWO, I can't wait to see the QQ.

If 8 HMG's is OP, then the Nova's op for being able to mount like 14 lasers. And the Nova Ain't OP because it's hot. Except Micro's aren't really that hot. The MLX ain't OP because it's lumbering for a light, it's arms are the size of texas and it has very little armor to work with.

Tonnage contraints and ammo constraints make this build very difficult to engage with properly, and the MLX is left very very vulnerable when it loses an arm or runs out of ammo.

Ammo, Range, and Tonnage Make this mech very sketchy to run. If you're really good with the chassis and are really good at aiming on the run, you'll probably do well. Everyone else will get utterly slaughtered trying to run this. I tested it last night a bunch. It's not easy mode.