120 replies to this topic

[davoodoo]

Willard Phule, on 23 September 2017 - 04:28 AM, said:

Except that it's got cardboard armor and is prone to ammo explosions, I guess.

Its medium mech, it wouldnt be able to take much fire anyway but amount of damage it fires would scare even assault mechs(mad2c would evaporate if everything hit ct) and ammo explosions?? ammo lasts for 5 shots which with uac is 3 turns, there will be nothing to explode.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 September 2017 - 07:12 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Juodas Varnas, on 23 September 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

IS ones look better.

FIRE SCORPION DISAGREES WITH THIS ASSESSMENT

[Juodas Varnas]

JackalBeast, on 23 September 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

FIRE SCORPION DISAGREES WITH THIS ASSESSMENT

NORMAL SCORPION > FIRE SCORPION!

But i'm not gonna lie, if PGI decided to release the Fire Scorpion first, i'd totally buy that mekpak
Probably would betray my FRR allegiance as well and go full merc ******* and pretend i'm a pirate. Arrrrrr!

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 23 September 2017 - 07:13 AM.

[Rakshasa]

Juodas Varnas, on 23 September 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

IS ones look better.

I cannot argue with matters of personal taste. All of them though? I mean, the Stalking Spider II looks pretty good to me.

Juodas Varnas, on 23 September 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

Exilyth, on 23 September 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

Uziel vs. Grid Iron - which is worse?

Uziel.

*splutters Britishly into tea*

Edited by Rakshasa, 23 September 2017 - 07:21 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Rakshasa, on 23 September 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

All of them though?



Stalking Spider II looks pretty good to me




*splutters Britishly into tea*

Yes. Stalking Spider was just clanners ripping off the IS Tarantula

I would totally buy a Stalking Spider as well though.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 23 September 2017 - 07:21 AM.

[Electroflameageddon]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 22 September 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

Here's the real punchline: Deathwish is the weakest variant of that chassis. The HBK-IIC is still one of the best 'Mechs in the game.



With LFE bringing the tonnage of AC20 builds down, sticking a rocket launcher on the GI's missile slot is a viable option. At least, I'm finding that to be a better use for it than an SRM4 or SRM6 that I'd have to give up my big gun for.

The Deathwish is the weakest of the Hunchback IIC's?

OMG! I may have to buy another IIC when I replenish my space bucks to an acceptable level just to test that theory.

I think I may be staring into the abyss here.

Not that I would ever leave Davion, they have the best uniforms.

[Trissila]

Jun Watarase, on 23 September 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

Clan tech only really dominates in two scenarios : when you run long ranged laser vomit or run UAC spam when pushing. Unfortunately thats pretty much most of what high level play is like.

QP on most maps dont involve 12 laser vomit mechs in a firing line so IS mechs actually dominate QP. I laugh everytime i see a laser vomit EBJ in QP because if he tries to sit at long range he will simply get ganked by a group of fast mechs because in QP because you dont get 11 bodyguards willing to sacrifice themselves for you. And once you negate the ~100m range advantage clan mechs **** all over IS ones at the same tonnage. Without the range advantage and luxury of cooling down after every alpha, clan mechs with bad hitboxes are made out of paper.

Infact, i've seen it countless times during this ballistic event. Both teams usually charge each other because everyone is farming ballistic damage and there is almost zero ranged trading or flanking. People just run into point blank range with ballistic boats. Laser vomit mechs fire one or two alphas before they get crushed underfoot.

If you honestly think clan tech is OP, try taking on a warhammer or grasshopper with a mad dog (10 ton advantage to simulate IS tonnage advantage in FP) and let me know how that works out for you. Enjoy shooting shield arms with long duration lasers because he can torso twist while you are halfway through your laser burn.

Or try using the following "superior" clan mechs :

Viper
Summoner (no ER PPC poptart builds)
Gargoyle
Executioner
Ice Ferret
Kitfox
Adder

And many more...all of whom get stomped by IS mechs of equal or LOWER tonnage.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I was saying.

Clantech is dominant in the current high-level meta of everyone running laser vomit or coordinated, concentrated pushes where the range/damage is the difference between a target living or dying in one focus-fire volley. Down in solo queue QP, which is the majority of the gameplay and where it's a disorganized bunch of chaos, clantech is not NEARLY as superior, and IS toughness is a lot stronger due to not getting focused as much; your extra structure doesn't matter if five 'mechs are hitting you, but it goes a long way if it's only one.

Though I still prefer clan omnimechs purely for the bang-for-the-buck factor. Very nice to be able to refit my 'mechs to entirely different configs for a few hundred thousand C-Bills instead of a few million, and only needing one 'mech bay for all variations of a single chassis.

Edited by Trissila, 23 September 2017 - 07:31 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Thinking about the GI, I think it's main issue, is gauss charging mechanic.

Without the charge mechanic, the GI is well, decent would be the right word, with a good, fast firing gauss and the hbk series has always been tanky.

With the charge mechanic however, it's so hard to take snap shots and make it function like a hbk should... which leads it down a path of mediocrity.

[davoodoo]

How to fix gi??
1)crit splitting
2)hgr buff

till then though
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a2325d678c99a2d
this is the best i can come up with.

alternatively you can go full ******
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7aa4d2d602c766c

Edited by davoodoo, 23 September 2017 - 09:12 AM.

[Lily from animove]

the IIC mechs, or better said all cklan battlemechs with extremely good hardpoints are a balance problematc factor. they can simply by the lack of the s tehc downside and the lack of omnimech restrictions outperform both of the other choicese. unfortunately PGI does't wants to give out ngative quirks anymore because some mechs just need them to beeing brought in line.

[stealthraccoon]

Novakaine, on 23 September 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

Yup sad times to be an IS'er.
Wonder why I bother sometimes

Urbanmechs.

JackalBeast, on 23 September 2017 - 06:47 AM, said:

I can take hits in my heavy IS mechs that would core out a clan assault.
Hell I can do that with my Urbie.

Urbanmechs.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Electroflameageddon, on 23 September 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

The Deathwish is the weakest of the Hunchback IIC's?

OMG! I may have to buy another IIC when I replenish my space bucks to an acceptable level just to test that theory.

I think I may be staring into the abyss here.

Not that I would ever leave Davion, they have the best uniforms.

You're perilously close to the edge, yeah. It's a little on the fragile side but punches way above its tonnage, has the mobility to put that punch where it will do the most damage... and the hardpoint placement to expose itself to minimal return fire. Take your pick: laservomit, SRM splat, dakka... and it's all high mounted. With jets. Basically, think of a loadout you could run on an IS 65-tonner... now stick it in a medium. That's the HBK-IIC in a nutshell. It is a really, really good chassis. If you're already doing well with the Deathwish, you're going to feel like a wrecking ball in a glassworks when you get your hands the rest of them.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

The Deathwish is probably the worst possible Hunchback IIC you can get, with the B being close behind.

Weird that that mech would be the one you pick and just happen to go on killing sprees with. What IS mechs are you using to not be able to push out 2-3 kills a match when you can in the Deathwish though?

[Void Angel]

adamts01, on 22 September 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

PGI was too stubborn and stuck to lore where Clan mechs are unarguably superior. Now that they're supposed to be balanced 1:1, most IS mechs just can't get by without quirks, and we're stuck with the infamous dartboard.... GG close.

Eh, I'd have to disagree a bit there. PGI didn't design the Clans to be superior; they wanted the Clans and IS to have their own strengths and weaknesses. The trouble is that PGI did (and does) acknowledge the history of the game and the popularity of game lore (and peoples' desire to field canon builds,) which led them to some very difficult problems: namely, Double Heat Sinks, Endo-Steel/Ferro-Fibrous upgrades, and XL engines.

Everything else is fine; the different guns (mostly) do different things for different tonnages, and balance is mostly a matter of tweaking numbers and looking at results. But when the Clans' bread-and-butter upgrades are flat-out superior, it gets dicey.

Thing was, it was working pretty ok for a while. Wasn't truly balanced, but the Inner Sphere's top performers were matched up against the Clans with only a slight disadvantage - but that was before the new waves of Clan 'mechs. With the initial two waves of Clan 'mechs, there were holes in the Clans' capabilities. They were generally over-engined, for one thing; this was actually a whining point for some players complaining that the Clans were underpowered just after release. So their superior guns were offset by having less relative tonnage (even with XLs) with which to mount them - and by hard-locked equipment/upgrade slots that restricted a lot of desirable builds. Their only competitive Assault chassis was a glorified gun turret, for example. These holes allowed good Inner Sphere players a chance to exploit the Clans' weaknesses in order to win. This in turn allowed PGI to tune the Clans' capabilities to achieve semi-parity in balance.

But those capability gaps went away as the Clans' got access to more and more of their 'Mech stable; once the Arctic Cheetah obsoleted every Inner Sphere chassis below 40 tons, for example, balance got worse. The Cauldron-Born introduced a low-profile, high-mount Heavy with slightly more pod space than the Timber Wolf; releases like the Huntsman, Night Gyr, and even the Linebacker gave the Clans more options for engine size - and balance has suffered for it.

Not that it's all doom and gloom; the introduction of new gear means that there are more IS options that are near substitutes for the Clans (and Clan options that are near-substitutes for their own guns; i.e. heavy lasers.) This should make it easier to balance the tech bases, and that's the sense I'm getting from PGI that they want to do. Time will tell.

Edited by Void Angel, 23 September 2017 - 10:49 AM.

[Void Angel]

Electroflameageddon, on 23 September 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

The Deathwish is the weakest of the Hunchback IIC's?

OMG! I may have to buy another IIC when I replenish my space bucks to an acceptable level just to test that theory.

I think I may be staring into the abyss here.

Not that I would ever leave Davion, they have the best uniforms.

[InfinityBall]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 23 September 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

You're perilously close to the edge, yeah. It's a little on the fragile side but punches way above its tonnage, has the mobility to put that punch where it will do the most damage... and the hardpoint placement to expose itself to minimal return fire. Take your pick: laservomit, SRM splat, dakka... and it's all high mounted. With jets. Basically, think of a loadout you could run on an IS 65-tonner... now stick it in a medium. That's the HBK-IIC in a nutshell. It is a really, really good chassis. If you're already doing well with the Deathwish, you're going to feel like a wrecking ball in a glassworks when you get your hands the rest of them.

Trying to figure out what mech you're confusing the HBK IIC with. It has no missile hardpoints and only 2 energy hardpoints in the torso. It is not an omnimech, so you cannot change those facts.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

Jun Watarase, on 23 September 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

If you honestly think clan tech is OP, try taking on a warhammer or grasshopper with a mad dog (10 ton advantage to simulate IS tonnage advantage in FP)

Bad math.

25 tons / 4 mechs is 6.25 tons.

A lot closer to 5 tons than 10 tons.

Unless you like horribly biased simulations.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

InfinityBall, on 23 September 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Trying to figure out what mech you're confusing the HBK IIC with. It has no missile hardpoints and only 2 energy hardpoints in the torso. It is not an omnimech, so you cannot change those facts.

Really?

The HBK-IIC can run similar loadouts to the more popular Jagermech builds: 4xUAC2, 3xUAC5, 2xUAC10, 2xGauss, etc, and any build with only two larger guns will also fit on the IIC-C which has better twist range.

The HBK-IIC-A can run similar loadouts to CPLT-J, TDR-5SS, 9S, and TD laservomit: MPL boating, LPL+ERML boating, etc, or it can also run 2xERPPC with sufficient sink capacity.

The HBK-IIC-B can run about the same weapon load as a CPLT-C4 if used for LRMs or ATMs, although its SRM builds would work on some 55-tonners like the GRF-2N that have similar launcher placement.

Or did you miss that I was talking about the chassis and not one particular variant?

Edited by WrathOfDeadguy, 23 September 2017 - 11:32 AM.

[InfinityBall]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 23 September 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

Really?

The HBK-IIC can run similar loadouts to the more popular Jagermech builds: 4xUAC2, 3xUAC5, 2xUAC10, 2xGauss, etc, and any build with only two larger guns will also fit on the IIC-C which has better twist range.

The HBK-IIC-A can run similar loadouts to CPLT-J, TDR-5SS, 9S, and TD laservomit: MPL boating, LPL+ERML boating, etc, or it can also run 2xERPPC with sufficient sink capacity.

The HBK-IIC-B can run about the same weapon load as a CPLT-C4 if used for LRMs or ATMs, although its SRM builds would work on some 55-tonners like the GRF-2N that have similar launcher placement.

Or did you miss that I was talking about the chassis and not one particular variant?

You're asking me if I missed that you weren't talking about the IIC when you were talking about the IIC by name?

Yeah, I guess I missed that.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Considering that the variants share so little in common, the mention of three completely different build types might've been a clue. Or the use of the word "chassis" rather than "variant." Lemme help you find it:

WrathOfDeadguy, on 23 September 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

That's the HBK-IIC in a nutshell. It is a really, really good chassis.

But yeah, it's obviously more reasonable to just leap straight to assuming that someone's mistaken the only Clan medium battlemech in the entire game for an omni. Because that's something somebody who plays said 'Mech would be likely to do, and it's totally impossible that you just missed some context.

Aw shucks, it looks like I can be condescending too!