120 replies to this topic

[Electroflameageddon]

Dakota1000, on 23 September 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

Ever try a Warhammer? Imagine a Marauder 3R but your cockpit is higher mounted so you don't expose as much, your arms can be used as shields, and you have the option to run big guns in both the side torsos rather than just one.

This build just drags in results for me: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6df91f06d2682ec

Battlemaster also has some top notch laser based builds for exposing very little of itself to fire.

I've tried Warhammers. They work sometimes. I've experimented with quite a few builds, but I haven't tried the build you posted. I'll give it a shot, I have the weapons now due to the challenge.

I don't know why but all of my Marauders are good mechs to run once I put 91 SP into them. The 5M is my second favorite to run on the IS side.

My kid absolutely loves his MAD IIC's, especially the Scorch. I have been hesitant to buy them, but i might since I'm falling down the Clan rabbit hole.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 September 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

He's talking about your typo:

I missed my typo entirely, least my second post cleared up confusion.

Electroflameageddon, on 23 September 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

I've tried Warhammers. They work sometimes. I've experimented with quite a few builds, but I haven't tried the build you posted. I'll give it a shot, I have the weapons now due to the challenge.

I don't know why but all of my Marauders are good mechs to run once I put 91 SP into them. The 5M is my second favorite to run on the IS side.

My kid absolutely loves his MAD IIC's, especially the Scorch. I have been hesitant to buy them, but i might since I'm falling down the Clan rabbit hole.

I've been using a similar build since before new tech, had dual AC10s with 4 MLs, the LFE engines, UACs, and ERMLs have made it even better now a days. It is also one of my buddy's favorites.

Also, having a Scorch, and other MAD IICs, they're pretty nice mechs. Scorch is a very fun brawler, not super tanky compared to an Atlas or even a Victor really, but it has great firepower.

[Void Angel]

Mystere, on 23 September 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

Now if only the game used lore-friendly Clan and IS formations and tailored them to the proper game modes. But, no, we get this 1:1 nonsense.

Here is a hint, folks: It's the wrong IP to insist on 1:1. But I guess delusions of eSpurts are completely blinding people.

Symmetrical teams isn't just an eSport thing; it's a balance and gameplay issue. Leaving aside problems with matchmaking and the engine, giving one side superior machines balanced by more players on the other side is neither simple or easy. Long queue times for the popular side, increased balance difficulty - and the simple fact that it feels better to stride the battlefield as a demigod than to try to drag down a superior opponent through numbers.

I hear over and over, from some quarters, that "if we just implemented the numbers from the totally balanced tabletop game, everything would work out," and I just can't buy it. Clan guns as canon are simply too powerful for a game where we can aim - meaning that you'd have to modify them for balance anyway, and then why bother with the trouble of asymmetric teams? Then there's the question of heat-efficient, long-range Clan 'mechs skewing map balance... and suddenly we're talking about redesigning the entire game.

You can believe that asymmetry fixes all ills if you like, but it's a claim that cannot be strongly supported, since we'd have to actually implement the system to really find out. Yet whatever you think about its effect on balance, it's not a trivial thing that PGI could just easily do if they stopped "insisting" on even teams numbers.

Edited by Void Angel, 23 September 2017 - 08:13 PM.

[Maker L106]

Want to weigh in here because I've had the opposite effect over time.

When I started I tried to stick to IS mechs (friend bought me the Panther resistance pack as a gift) and I liked it (before it became the size of a bus, and even after.). What I've noticed going back and forth from Clan to IS and such is that When it comes to push and shove, clans do it better. If you are 1v1ing someone, the clan mech will almost always have more firepower but less surviveability. Looking at that same scenario from the IS side of things is a bit more interesting. The clan mechs pack way more offense than their IS counterparts but are often times easier to cripple or kill.

in this example my survival spec'd MaD-BH has taken on assault mechs and survived. and that's just with MPL's and an AC20. absolutely noting special. conversely my MaD-IIC can alpha strike 2-3 times for 65 a strike and absolutley melt things that aren't called AS7-D.

The heavier on the weight scale you go the more you can favor IS mechs with fewer consequences IMO. The lighter you go, the more you can favor clans for inverse reasons.

Though my bias of "Church of Dakka" makes me still lean IS regardless of my teams affiliation...

[MischiefSC]

Dakota1000, on 23 September 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

4 ERML = 28 damage
2 HLL = 36 damage
2 gauss = 30 damage
94 damage

For 94 damage with HML you'd have to use
4 HML = 40 damage
2 LPL = 24 damage
2 gauss = 30 damage.

Range and cooldown synergy is just not there.

Wouldn't use HML for this because the range is lower, HLL+ERML pair up nicely for 400+ meter alphas anyway.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

MischiefSC, on 23 September 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

I run 2 HLL with 6 ERML on my Hellbringer to great effect. What can I say? I like it hot.

[MischiefSC]

Dakota1000, on 23 September 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

I missed my typo entirely, least my second post cleared up confusion.



I've been using a similar build since before new tech, had dual AC10s with 4 MLs, the LFE engines, UACs, and ERMLs have made it even better now a days. It is also one of my buddy's favorites.

Also, having a Scorch, and other MAD IICs, they're pretty nice mechs. Scorch is a very fun brawler, not super tanky compared to an Atlas or even a Victor really, but it has great firepower.

For a slum build you can run 2xUAC20, 2xmpl, XL350 and 18DHS, plus 6 tons of UAC20 ammo.

It's a sustained DPS of at least 7 (closer to 9 with double-taps unless you are insanely unlucky) and 52% cooling before quirks. I just find it more overall satisfying than the LBX/SRM version because you've got so much more precision. It's 94 damage over the double-taps and while sometimes one of them jams on the second cycle you're usually 160 damage in before that's even an issue, which is usually enough to cure someones ills. While it feels 'slow' with the 0.5 second pause between taps your total burn time is shorter than keeping HLLs on target. At the range you're at unless you're trying to leg a Commando your MPLs are hitting where the UACs are.

You can also go with 2xATM3s, swap the MPLs for CERMLs and puke up 100 damage with slightly inferior heat management but it's just such a stupid, stupid amount of damage and you can just keep it raining. It's a similar feeling to the 4xAC2, 2xRAC5 Anni in terms of how it feels but significantly faster.

I love the Scorch. Absolutely love it. It's got the speed and hardpoints to actually make something viable out of the missiles and uacs you don't normally use with Clan mechs.

[Mystere]

Void Angel, on 23 September 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

Symmetrical teams isn't just an eSport thing; it's a balance and gameplay issue. Leaving aside problems with matchmaking and the engine, giving one side superior machines balanced by more players on the other side is neither simple or easy. Long queue times for the popular side, increased balance difficulty - and the simple fact that it feels better to stride the battlefield as a demigod than to try to drag down a superior opponent through numbers.

I hear over and over, from some quarters, that "if we just implemented the numbers from the totally balanced tabletop game, everything would work out," and I just can't buy it. Clan guns as canon are simply too powerful for a game where we can aim - meaning that you'd have to modify them for balance anyway, and then why bother with the trouble of asymmetric teams? Then there's the question of heat-efficient, long-range Clan 'mechs skewing map balance... and suddenly we're talking about redesigning the entire game.

You can believe that asymmetry fixes all ills if you like, but it's a claim that cannot be strongly supported, since we'd have to actually implement the system to really find out. Yet whatever you think about its effect on balance, it's not a trivial thing that PGI could just easily do if they stopped "insisting" on even teams numbers.

It is still the wrong IP. You'd have an argument if we were in the 3020's. But we're not.

And people always seem to miss this part:

Mystere, on 23 September 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

Now if only the game used lore-friendly Clan and IS formations and tailored them to the proper game modes.

This makes me think people are too hung up on Clan vs. IS to imagine anything else. I mean, what other reasons could people possibly have to miss the highlighted part.

Why can't we have a classical 2:1 or 3:1 siege mode?

Where is the 1:N rear guard action, or raid, or assassination mission?

Why do all game modes, with the sole exception of scouting, be 12:12 all day every day?

Edited by Mystere, 23 September 2017 - 10:39 PM.

[Void Angel]

Did you miss the bits from the developer that say the game engine doesn't like having asymmetric team sizes?

The game timeline has nothing to do with why asymmetric teams are problematic - asking for wildly differing team sizes for "siege modes" and the like doesn't have anything to do with Clantech. It really comes down to two things: technical hurdles (which I understand are not trivial,) and balance complexity. Both of those things aren't something PGI could just "decide to stop being stubborn," and magically start doing tomorrow - or next week; or next month. There's a lot of time and resources involved in these "simple" solutions.

So the question really is simple: is it more worthwhile to scrap a lot of balance and start over for asymmetric teams, or to stick with the team sizes we have and flesh out tech balance and faction warfare? It's pretty obvious which track PGI has chosen, and they're the only ones who really know how difficult/expensive it would be to go the asymmetric route.

It may also be worthwhile to ask whether it is reasonable to criticize the game for not being a LARP accessory for the MechWarrior campaigns we wish we'd had in the 90s.

[Mystere]

Void Angel, on 23 September 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Did you miss the bits from the developer that say the game engine doesn't like having asymmetric team sizes?

And you actually believed that? <smh>

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Asym teams do seem to work just fine in private matches. I remember talk that people did try out 12v10 IS vs Clan fights at Clan launch and found it to favor IS.

[Zergling]

Asymmetric teams might have worked if they did that from the start, but you can forget about PGI changing the whole game to make it work now.

It just ain't gonna happen.

Edited by Zergling, 24 September 2017 - 01:27 AM.

[Jungle Rhino]

Just logged on for my first game in about 3mths - no lights, only 2 IS mechs on my team - wtf is this normal???

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Jungle Rhino, on 24 September 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

Just logged on for my first game in about 3mths - no lights, only 2 IS mechs on my team - wtf is this normal???

Well, its not even 7 AM EST, not many people online at this time, teams will likely be incredibly unbalanced. Also your location says New Zealand, Oceanic server is the least populated server.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Void Angel, on 23 September 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Did you miss the bits from the developer that say the game engine doesn't like having asymmetric team sizes?

That I don't remember.

What I remember they said the game engine doesn't like anything other than one team versus another, because there is so lots of code that assumes two teams. This was in particular for difficulties of everyone vs everyone mode.

[Bombast]

Jungle Rhino, on 24 September 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

Just logged on for my first game in about 3mths - no lights, only 2 IS mechs on my team - wtf is this normal???

Ballistic event going on at the moment. It seems to have forced team weights even higher than usual - I've gone multiple runs of 5+ matches without seeing a light since its started.

As for the IS/Clan thing, probably just 'bad' luck. Happens.

[Yellonet]

FupDup, on 23 September 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

I've never understood the roleplaying mindset that people have where they think they can only play one faction or the other. Play whatever mech you want whenever you want; all the matters is that you contribute to the team.

In my case it's not about role play as I've no BT history.
For me it's mostly about clans in fact having superior equipment and to me it feels very wrong to use things like that, in any game.
Furthermore, several clanners around here have confirmed my preconceptions about what kind of persons play clans and why they do it, so that definitely makes clans a no for me.
Clan apologist that come on the forums with the agenda to muddy the waters about clans in fact being superior just makes me loath clanners that much more.

[Bombast]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

Furthermore, several clanners around here have confirmed my preconceptions about what kind of persons play clans and why they do it, so that definitely makes clans a no for me.

Eugenicists and hypocrites?

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 23 September 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

I run 2 HLL with 6 ERML on my Hellbringer to great effect. What can I say? I like it hot.

Works better on EBJ, IMO, due to more DHS.

Dakota1000, on 24 September 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

Asym teams do seem to work just fine in private matches. I remember talk that people did try out 12v10 IS vs Clan fights at Clan launch and found it to favor IS.

If it favors one faction, then it doesn't work just fine.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 24 September 2017 - 04:20 AM, said:

Works better on EBJ, IMO, due to more DHS.



If it favors one faction, then it doesn't work just fine.

I mean it works fine from a technical standpoint, I'm not really into the whole asym thing myself.

Also Hellbringer > Ebon Jaguar for this build, EBJ doesn't have the free slots for it so Hellbringer could either bring its ECM or one heatsink more than the Jag.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fe88cc4b50d5b95
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8f0ab9b0a6f8a72

Edited by Dakota1000, 24 September 2017 - 04:49 AM.