196 replies to this topic

[50 50]

MischiefSC, on 06 November 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

1 can't happen because farmees are just bads and bads are all relative. That's the biggest illusion here; the idea that pug matches are never rolls. Have you never played QP? The only reason you don't see spawn camping every other match in QP is... there's no respawns. If there was it would happen constantly. I can't count how many 12-1 matches I've had today in QP.

2 would really, really help but what it needs is better tools to help new players get into connection with people who can help them.

I like the first point about quick play not having the respawns and why you do get spawn camping when there is.
It's almost inevitable.
Right at this point I believe it would be better to return the quick play modes to a single drop in Faction Play and use our drop decks differently as that immediately eliminates spawn camping as even being possible. Plenty of people have made suggestions about doing x, y or z about spawn camping... personally I like the idea of being able to capture the drop zones... but the simple fact is that because we have respawns, we get spawn camping.
So, don't do it.
Let's change the way we use the drop decks.
Little unsure about Siege and if that should be changed.

[MischiefSC]

Ghogiel, on 07 November 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

You are doing mental gynmastics here. People don't play FW is because they have a better play experience in QP> they are actually playing that instead. If FW is just QP with respawns and better rewards but no MMer like you say, what is making it so off putting> imo it's because it is the least competitive free mode in MWO because the matches are probably more often worse than group queue match ups, your opinion it's some stuff most of the player base probably has no clue or care about and never materialised or was in the game ever. Yeah and I'm the one kidding myself.

Except I've based that opinion off of having played with literally close to 1,000 people in FW. Most units, every faction, listening to them talk in TS. Also in Davion officer WhatsApp, listening to the leaders of every big unit in FW talk about exactly why their members quit/left.

Don't mistake the population that's left now with the many thousands who played FW 1/2, up to 3.

50 50, on 07 November 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

I like the first point about quick play not having the respawns and why you do get spawn camping when there is.
It's almost inevitable.
Right at this point I believe it would be better to return the quick play modes to a single drop in Faction Play and use our drop decks differently as that immediately eliminates spawn camping as even being possible. Plenty of people have made suggestions about doing x, y or z about spawn camping... personally I like the idea of being able to capture the drop zones... but the simple fact is that because we have respawns, we get spawn camping.
So, don't do it.
Let's change the way we use the drop decks.
Little unsure about Siege and if that should be changed.

If you have 3-5 'potential drop locations' that the dropship will shuttle people to based on proximity of reds you largely eliminate the risk of dropzone camping. You get dropped whatever is furthest from the enemy. If the enemy splits up, it drops everyone in one DZ.

That removes the bulk of the risk right there without giving people any reason to camp their own DZ. Do that and remove lasers from dropships even - the point is that camping your own DZ should offer 0 benefit so people aren't motivated to do it. Then ensure that there really isn't a way to farm people at their dropzone.

[Ghogiel]

MischiefSC, on 07 November 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

Except I've based that opinion off of having played with literally close to 1,000 people in FW. Most units, every faction, listening to them talk in TS. Also in Davion officer WhatsApp, listening to the leaders of every big unit in FW talk about exactly why their members quit/left.

Don't mistake the population that's left now with the many thousands who played FW 1/2, up to 3.

and at the same time haven't been listening to the 1000 threads from solo players for years in this forum and yet continue on lol

[MischiefSC]

Ghogiel, on 07 November 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

and at the same time haven't been listening to the 1000 threads from solo players for years in this forum and yet continue on lol

Right next to the 1000s of solo players complaining that LRMs are OP. Also the 1000s of solo players saying that group queue needed to only allow 2-4mans, because it was unfair to casuals who wanted to bring a drunk buddy in to play some matches.

The only reason pugging exists in FW is because we begged PGI to include it. It was always directed at groups. The groups didn't leave because... what, they were stomping themselves? They left because the FW they were sold never showed.

There is nothing you're going to do that's going to stop bad pugs from getting stomped and you absolutely know that. There is no MM that's going to change how the game plays for bad players. That's chasing a dragon you'll never catch. The most a MM would do is bring back some good teams if they knew they would only play good teams. The guy in the deck with LRM Bushies is still going to lose just as much. It will have 0 impact on dropship farming for the same reason 1 sided matches still happen constantly in QP.

Put the FW content in QP for people to play. Have said that for years. A Matchmaker for them, all pugs, matches don't mean anything and they can learn to deal with respawns and such. Killing FW to make it entirely into QP because of the incorrect idea that the only reason bad players lose is organized teams is just going to get more people to quit.

[TWIAFU]

MischiefSC, on 07 November 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

Put the FW content in QP for people to play. Have said that for years. A Matchmaker for them, all pugs, matches don't mean anything and they can learn to deal with respawns and such. Killing FW to make it entirely into QP because of the incorrect idea that the only reason bad players lose is organized teams is just going to get more people to quit.

There we go, solution.

Put a CW mode into QP for solo pugs to roll over each other. NO MC, no LP, basic C-bill rewards.

You want LP, MC, mech bays, play CW in a Group or Unit.

[Phoolan Devi]

There are only two legitimate reasons for garming! One being skirmish and second being siege when the defending team is stomping the attacking team.

Other than those two, farming is stupid, senseless, lack of skill/style and violates CoC!

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Phoolan Devi, on 08 November 2017 - 04:33 AM, said:

There are only two legitimate reasons for garming! One being skirmish and second being siege when the defending team is stomping the attacking team.

Other than those two, farming is stupid, senseless, lack of skill/style and violates CoC!

But if we farm them it rubs in the point that they shouldn't drop in FW without a group or with bad builds that cause them to get farmed and hopefully runs them away if they don't intend to improve. It also pays more, a win-win.

[MischiefSC]

Phoolan Devi, on 08 November 2017 - 04:33 AM, said:

There are only two legitimate reasons for garming! One being skirmish and second being siege when the defending team is stomping the attacking team.

Other than those two, farming is stupid, senseless, lack of skill/style and violates CoC!

Doesn't violate CoC in any way.

Killing mechs is on all the objectives of every mode.

Especially attacking on siege you want to kill the attackers or you'll get shot in the back busting gens.

Killing mechs pays more. There's absolutely nothing in the game that requires you to take a 75% pay cut for the match because you're beating the other team.

Most people play to fight mechs, not shoot gens. So that's what they do.

[Phoolan Devi]

MischiefSC, on 08 November 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

Doesn't violate CoC in any way.

Killing mechs is on all the objectives of every mode.

Especially attacking on siege you want to kill the attackers or you'll get shot in the back busting gens.

Killing mechs pays more. There's absolutely nothing in the game that requires you to take a 75% pay cut for the match because you're beating the other team.

Most people play to fight mechs, not shoot gens. So that's what they do.

It actually does since it is needlessly prolonging the game w/out helping the team to win.

Btw, it is even economically a waste. You don't make that much more money with killing all mechs and thus loosing money by wasting time! Having three games instead of two in the same timeframe pays more!

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Phoolan Devi, on 08 November 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

It actually does since it is needlessly prolonging the game w/out helping the team to win.

Btw, it is even economically a waste. You don't make that much more money with killing all mechs and thus loosing money by wasting time! Having three games instead of two in the same timeframe pays more!

It does help the team to win, killing all enemies = win. Also it wastes time because a lot of time is spent in the queue for FW, so this means if you have 10 minutes in queue then gen rush and win in 10 minutes only to earn about 500,000 cbills that's much worse than 10 minutes in queue and 15 minutes to farm the enemies for about 1,250,000 cbills. You make double the cbills per minute farming, which is why its called farming.

[Phoolan Devi]

Dakota1000, on 08 November 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

It does help the team to win, killing all enemies = win. Also it wastes time because a lot of time is spent in the queue for FW, so this means if you have 10 minutes in queue then gen rush and win in 10 minutes only to earn about 500,000 cbills that's much worse than 10 minutes in queue and 15 minutes to farm the enemies for about 1,250,000 cbills. You make double the cbills per minute farming, which is why its called farming.

In siege mode attack, domination, conquest the win condition is not to kill all the mechs but the objective! To deliberately extend the time w/out playing the objective is against CoC. It's like the last guy in skirmish who runs, hides and shuts down.......the exact same attitude!

To the earnings: I don't know what timezone or region you are playing, but for me the longest wait times are 5min tops. 90% are almost insta drops. So, if I make in a objective based game 750k and in a garming game about 1mil, then I make more doing more objective based games than with farming.

[MischiefSC]

Phoolan Devi, on 08 November 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

In siege mode attack, domination, conquest the win condition is not to kill all the mechs but the objective! To deliberately extend the time w/out playing the objective is against CoC. It's like the last guy in skirmish who runs, hides and shuts down.......the exact same attitude!

To the earnings: I don't know what timezone or region you are playing, but for me the longest wait times are 5min tops. 90% are almost insta drops. So, if I make in a objective based game 750k and in a garming game about 1mil, then I make more doing more objective based games than with farming.

Especially for Clans in NA 10 to 20 minutes is common. Plus time to load the drop plus requeue times.

Winning on objectives nets you 300-600k, winning on kills about 1.2 million or more.

Every single game mode in FW lists killing mechs in the objectives. Take a look.

To equate fighting first then finishing objectives to running off and powering down in skirmish is so disingenuous it's really hard to take anything you're saying seriously. Even in QP ideally you kill most/all the enemy then finish objectives. You go for an objective win if you can't win on kills.

[Phoolan Devi]

MischiefSC, on 08 November 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Especially for Clans in NA 10 to 20 minutes is common. Plus time to load the drop plus requeue times.

Winning on objectives nets you 300-600k, winning on kills about 1.2 million or more.

Every single game mode in FW lists killing mechs in the objectives. Take a look.

To equate fighting first then finishing objectives to running off and powering down in skirmish is so disingenuous it's really hard to take anything you're saying seriously. Even in QP ideally you kill most/all the enemy then finish objectives. You go for an objective win if you can't win on kills.

That's your opinion, mine is a different one. Let's leave it at that.

Fact is, I will never participate at farming nor do I let myself being farmed if I can manage it.

Btw, in case you guys misunderstood......I'm not advocading objective rushs here. I'm talking about farming when the loosing team is like 24-10 behind and the dominating team is waiting for the respawns even though they could easily finish the game by going for the objective. In those instances the monetary difference is minimal!

[Asym]

Farming..... The only reason I drop in FP is for events. The team I am on does not drop in FP and hasn't since early June. Some extremely bad experiences there it seems and it boiled over.... There are a dozen or so other teams that will not drop in FP according to the PUGs that joined teams to drop in FP and now,on a team, don't and we run into one another in QP to chat....

I've been farmed so many times it's ridiculous. Many of those times it was a "learning experience" in some respects; a negative one but, a learning experience all the same.

Although, the most fun I've ever had in MWO was a PUG mostly FP match where just about everybody was a PUG.... Oh my God, was that hilarious and an outright hoot worth of 30 minutes.....with some T1 founder (I won't name) calling the game and, despite just about every possible screw-up, noob mistake, wrong turn, insane mech configurations and a battlefield game play style that best could be called "keystone Cops", kept the team together and we beat a very good team......barely, but we won...... That T1 player had the patience of a GD saint, didn't yell, didn't do anything but help a hand full of noobs win a game they were destined to be farm in..... 1 person made a difference.

now, the opposite experience:

I was TK'd several weeks ago when I asked (sort of demanded) the winning team to allow the last 4 mechs to drop as an opportunity for single combat with our most damaged mech being first. [Redacted]

So, where's the middle? Where is the safe ground where average teams, even if they are pick-up teams, can drop and have some fun?

Edited by draiocht, 09 November 2017 - 09:19 AM.
griefing

[MischiefSC]

Phoolan Devi, on 08 November 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

That's your opinion, mine is a different one. Let's leave it at that.

Fact is, I will never participate at farming nor do I let myself being farmed if I can manage it.

Btw, in case you guys misunderstood......I'm not advocading objective rushs here. I'm talking about farming when the loosing team is like 24-10 behind and the dominating team is waiting for the respawns even though they could easily finish the game by going for the objective. In those instances the monetary difference is minimal!

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, obviously. However, to clear, clans often have 10-2p minute waits and objective rushes pay about half what fighting to 48 does. Also killing enemy m3chs is on the list of objectives in every mode. There's no opinion involved there.

[50 50]

MischiefSC, on 07 November 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

If you have 3-5 'potential drop locations' that the dropship will shuttle people to based on proximity of reds you largely eliminate the risk of dropzone camping. You get dropped whatever is furthest from the enemy. If the enemy splits up, it drops everyone in one DZ.

That removes the bulk of the risk right there without giving people any reason to camp their own DZ. Do that and remove lasers from dropships even - the point is that camping your own DZ should offer 0 benefit so people aren't motivated to do it. Then ensure that there really isn't a way to farm people at their dropzone.

That would be pretty good.
Unfortunately, the option to select drop zones was raised as something we needed at the last townhall with PGI and we haven't heard boo about it since.
I feel that it is simply not practical for any of the modes we have at the moment.
The quick play modes don't work that well with the respawns, save Conquest perhaps, but none of them were designed with that in mind.
Siege was designed for use with the drop decks but the maps are not setup for drop zone selection.

To enable it with any of the existing modes would be a massive undertaking and it's probably been shelved.

If we want to entertain that idea further then we should probably barrack and push for a brand new mode to be added for Faction Play that does have this sort of capability.

The alternative, is to approach these issues from a different angle.

Either option requires significant work, but is worth it.

If it's an issue of funding for the mode, then let's suggest some faction specific special mechs/mech packs from the existing ones that we treat as specials but have a particular bonus in Faction play such as increased LP rewards, a camo scheme from lore and weigh -5 tons when determining drop deck tonnage.
ie. Want to buy a mech pack?

[MischiefSC]

Drop caller in almost every TS when asked if we dunk or farm 48.

[Scoops Kerensky]

Kin3ticX, on 04 November 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

CW actually started in mid December 14. I was one of the testers which I think started in late October and ran thru December. Its the only reason I would remember something like that.



Being a captain/helper or whatever I was in Mercstar was a lot of fun back before (((phase 3))). I joined Mercstar because facing them was a pain in the butt and I didn't have a CW unit. Ohh man those were the days. I also miss NKVA shenanigans and the overall rivalries in general.

Never imagined CW would end up like this.

You can't even horseplay a tiny bit in the forums without the (((mods))) swooping and deleting stuff. There was nothing here that was 1/10th what NKVA was doing. Probably the reason they renamed it from Community Warfare to Faction Play, a part of coddling fragile players..

Whatever, the mode is mostly dead to me, I will show up for a free mech but thats pretty much it.

I Hope Everyone Has Pre-Ordered Their Copy of Mechwarrior 5, It Will Be A Great Game Ha Ha Ha

[Kin3ticX]

Scoops Kerensky, on 09 November 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

I Hope Everyone Has Pre-Ordered Their Copy of Mechwarrior 5, It Will Be A Great Game Ha Ha Ha

Grande Game

[MischiefSC]

Scoops Kerensky, on 09 November 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

I Hope Everyone Has Pre-Ordered Their Copy of Mechwarrior 5, It Will Be A Great Game Ha Ha Ha

Didn't you hear?

PGI gave up on MW 5.

They just got the license for Persona 6.