164 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Frustration for the user because your performance will be inconsistent based on how lucky your dice rolls are.

its not inconsistent though. the weapons still does consistent damage. the damage isnt random. just the chance for a portion of it bypassing armor is random.

if you reduced clan gauss to 12 damage but gave it a chance for say 20% armor piercing, clan gauss would still always do 12 damage. just sometimes it would do 12 damage to armor and sometimes it would do 9.6 damage to armor and 2.4 damage to internals.

thats much more balanced and flavorful than keeping clan gauss at 15 damage all the time.

Quote

Frustration for the person getting shot because their squishy internals are getting damaged even while the armor is intact.

but its not like there isnt a precedent for weapons penetrating armor in battletech.

those weapons exist. theres armor piercing autocannons. tandem charge warheads. etc...

and gauss, given that it fires projectiles at six times the speed of sound, could conceivably be among those weapons

thats a better way to add flavor to gauss than crappy chargeup.

weapons like heavy gauss will never have a place in the game because of mechanics like chargeup. it can never compete with something like a UAC20. but if heavy gauss didnt have chargeup and could punch through armor then it does something UAC20s cant. it has a role in the game then as an armor piercing weapon.

if light gauss could penetrate armor it would be better as well.

Edited by Khobai, 24 November 2017 - 10:20 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Paigan, on 23 November 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

About equal dps as a normal Gauss.
Slightly more damage per ammo ton.
Longer range.
No chargeup (!). edit: thanks to FupDup for correcting me.
Less weight.

This weapon needs no buff. It is good as it is.
If there was a Clan equivalent, I would almost always prefer it over the normal Gauss.

Totally agree here.

People keep thinking the Light Gauss is lackluster simply because they see 8 damage, 12 tons vs 15 damage, 15 tons and say it doesn't compute. That aren't taking into account any of the other important features of the Light Gauss like the higher velocity slugs, rate of fire, or ease of use features like the reduced charge up time (which makes a ton of difference when it comes to snap shooing/face time requirements). When you take all these into account you have a weapons that outputs near the same DPS as the standard Gauss but is easier to use and to hit with. This is why I don't really foresee PGI changing it much.

On the other hand, I do understand why people feel it is lackluster. It just doesn't have the busting power of a Standard Gauss Rifle and as we know, raw Alpha damage has a tendency to be more effective than Damage Over Time when it comes to MWO.

However, I think the problem is that people are making a mistake comparing the Light Gauss to the Gauss in the first place. In my opinion, the Light Gauss should be treated as a replacement for the AC/10, not the Gauss rifle. When you stop and make that comparison, you start realizing the Light Gauss is in a very good place. Let compare for a second.

AC/10
12 Tons
10 Damage
2.5 Cool Down
2.75 Heat
1100 Velocity
450m Optimal Range
20 Rounds per ton of ammo

Light Gauss
12 Tons
8 Damage
3.25 Cool Down
1.00 Heat
2000 Velocity
750m Optimal Range
20 Rounds per ton of ammo

You see this is a much more even comparison and it should be pretty obvious to everyone that the Light Gauss is a direct competitor to the AC/10, not the Standard Gauss Rifle. Both weapons are the same tonnage and have the same ammo count so when your considering builds, the Light Gauss is a direct swap out for an AC/10 ton for ton. The Light Gauss has the advantage of having no heat, significantly higher velocity round and also significantly longer range but the AC/10 does slightly more damage, fires faster and doesn't have any charge up making them pretty damn comparable overall or at least comparable enough that it can be a difficult choice when decision which is better.

So when you compare the Light Gauss to the weapon it should be compared against, it becomes even more obvious that there doesn't need to be any sort of buff.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 24 November 2017 - 10:13 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 24 November 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

its not inconsistent though. the weapons still does consistent damage.

-->

Khobai, on 24 November 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

give gauss an X% chance for Y% of its damage to bypass armor and damage internals directly.

Khobai, on 24 November 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

but its not like there isnt a precedent for weapons penetrating armor in battletech.

...And?

Edited by FupDup, 24 November 2017 - 10:11 PM.

[R Valentine]

Viktor Drake, on 24 November 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

Totally agree here.

People keep thinking the Light Gauss is lackluster simply because they see 8 damage, 12 tons vs 15 damage, 15 tons and say it doesn't compute. That aren't taking into account any of the other important features of the Light Gauss like the higher velocity slugs, rate of fire, or ease of use features like the reduced charge up time (which makes a ton of difference when it comes to snap shooing/face time requirements). When you take all these into account you have a weapons that outputs near the same DPS as the standard Gauss but is easier to use and to hit with. This is why I don't really foresee PGI changing it much.

On the other hand, I do understand why people feel it is lackluster. It just doesn't have the busting power of a Standard Gauss Rifle and as we know, raw Alpha damage has a tendency to be more effective than Damage Over Time when it comes to MWO.

However, I think the problem is that people are making a mistake comparing the Light Gauss to the Gauss in the first place. In my opinion, the Light Gauss should be treated as a replacement for the AC/10, not the Gauss rifle. When you stop and make that comparison, you start realizing the Light Gauss is in a very good place. Let compare for a second.

AC/10
12 Tons
10 Damage
2.5 Cool Down
2.75 Heat
1100 Velocity
450m Optimal Range
20 Rounds per ton of ammo

Light Gauss
12 Tons
8 Damage
3.25 Cool Down
1.00 Heat
2000 Velocity
750m Optimal Range
20 Rounds per ton of ammo

You see this is a much more even comparison and it should be pretty obvious to everyone that the Light Gauss is a direct competitor to the AC/10, not the Standard Gauss Rifle. Both weapons are the same tonnage and have the same ammo count so when your considering builds, the Light Gauss is a direct swap out for an AC/10 ton for ton. The Light Gauss has the advantage of having no heat, significantly higher velocity round and also significantly longer range but the AC/10 does slightly more damage, fires faster and doesn't have any charge up making them pretty damn comparable overall or at least comparable enough that it can be a difficult choice when decision which is better.

So when you compare the Light Gauss to the weapon it should be compared against, it becomes even more obvious that there doesn't need to be any sort of buff.

Only you're missing EXTREMELY important characteristics. Screen shake and charge up. AC/10 = zero charge up. Much lower chance of aim being distorted by weapons with screen shake. Inflicts screen shake itself. Light gauss is the exact opposite. Non-shaking, charge up garbage restricted to 2 per volley. Yes, AC/10s have ghost heat, but you CAN accept the penalty and fire through it. Light gauss won't even charge 3 at a time, so the option simply doesn't exist.

[Khobai]

Quote

give gauss an X% chance for Y% of its damage to bypass armor and damage internals directly.

once again, the overall damage doesnt change. all that changes is where the damage is applied: to armor or internals.

a light gauss at 10 damage would still always do 10 damage.

just sometimes it would do 10 damage to armor and sometimes it would do 8 damage to armor and 2 damage to internals. but the damage is always consistently 10.

and bypassing armor to damage internals directly is pretty much always a bonus. theres really not a lot of situations where you wouldnt want that.

Quote

...And?

And its not inconceivable for a mach6 hypersonic round fired from a gauss to penetrate armor. in fact that actually MAKES SENSE.

it adds more flavor to gauss. it makes heavy gauss stand out more from AC20/UAC20 instead of being useless. it makes light gauss stand out from other extreme range weapons like erppc/ac2s. it adds another variable for balancing clan gauss vs IS gauss.

and it can be used as another variable to balance gauss and get rid of garbage chargeup once and for all.

Edited by Khobai, 24 November 2017 - 10:32 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 24 November 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

once again, the overall damage doesnt change. all that changes is where the damage is applied: to armor or internals.

And that makes quite a difference since one of those is usually much more durable than the other.

[Y E O N N E]

Viktor Drake, on 24 November 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

So when you compare the Light Gauss to the weapon it should be compared against, it becomes even more obvious that there doesn't need to be any sort of buff.

The weapons you should compare the LGauss to are the ERLL, ERPPC, AC/2, and UAC/2.

All except the ERPPC have the same kind of sustained firepower as the LGauss, some of them have more. All except the AC/2 have more burst potential than the LGauss.

There is no place for the LGauss on the current field.

[Khobai]

Quote

And that makes quite a difference since one of those is usually much more durable than the other.

of course it does, thats the whole point.

even light gauss gets legit scarier if it has a chance to bypass armor.

but if you wanna live in your stagnant unimaginative world where light gauss and heavy gauss are totally useless and even standard gauss is mediocre, by all means...

I would like them to be actual useful weapons. giving gauss weapons armor piercing is a way of making them stand out among other weapons. it makes them far more interesting weapons with a unique role in the game.

get rid of chargeup and replace the useless gauss charge skill nodes with gauss armor piercing skill nodes instead.

you could even get rid of the % random chance and just make it 100% automatic, like:
armor piercing I: gauss weapons gain 7.5% armor penetration (7.5% of their damage bypasses armor)
armor piercing II: gauss weapons gain 15% armor penetration (15% of their damage bypasses armor)

Edited by Khobai, 24 November 2017 - 10:46 PM.

[davoodoo]

Viktor Drake, on 24 November 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

The Light Gauss has the advantage of having no heat, significantly higher velocity round and also significantly longer range but the AC/10 does slightly more damage, fires faster and doesn't have any charge up making them pretty damn comparable overall or at least comparable enough that it can be a difficult choice when decision which is better.

25% more damage is slightly?

lets put up a comparison, clan pulsevomit does 66dmg per alpha, new hll laservomit does 78 or 18% more.
Its just slightly more damage.

Edited by davoodoo, 25 November 2017 - 12:58 AM.

[McMurl]

The weapon is totally fine. Its a suppression weapon, and is really good at doing that. I wouldnt mind a rate of fire buff, but other than that its great at what its role is.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Viktor Drake, on 24 November 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

People keep thinking the Light Gauss is lackluster simply because they see 8 damage, 12 tons vs 15 damage, 15 tons and say it doesn't compute. That aren't taking into account any of the other important features of the Light Gauss like the higher velocity slugs, rate of fire, or ease of use features like the reduced charge up time (which makes a ton of difference when it comes to snap shooing/face time requirements). When you take all these into account you have a weapons that outputs near the same DPS as the standard Gauss but is easier to use and to hit with. This is why I don't really foresee PGI changing it much.

LGauss & Gauss have the same velocity of 2,000 m/s.

[Y E O N N E]

McMurl, on 25 November 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

The weapon is totally fine. Its a suppression weapon, and is really good at doing that. I wouldnt mind a rate of fire buff, but other than that its great at what its role is.

Suppression is accomplished by dealing enough damage that the enemy is compelled to GTFO or git rekt. Every other 600+ meter weapon the IS has is better at it than the LGauss.

Jay Leon Hart, on 25 November 2017 - 01:26 AM, said:

LGauss & Gauss have the same velocity of 2,000 m/s.

And both the AC/2 and UAC/2 also have projectile velocities of 2,000 m/s. And the ER PPC is close enough at 1900 m/s.

Really, no reason to take LGauss.

[McMurl]

Doesnt matter who you are, you hear that sound of gauss impacting your mech, youre gonna back off.

[Koniving]

Were the setup lore bound (somewhat going beyond tabletop) for all weapons... The Light Gauss as it is, even if fired only once in 7.5 to 10 seconds, wouldn't need a buff. But like regular Gauss and Heavy Gauss, it'd be piercing armor, punching holes clean through mechs and hitting mechs behind them.. and as one of the few front loaded weapons (Missiles, Gauss, PPCs, Mech Rifles) it would be plenty powerful as the toughest laser or AC might do 4 to 5 damage per shot if we don't go above 185mm with multiple shots necessary to achieve a rating.

But we don't have that.

I believe simply removing the charge mechanic would be more than sufficient alongside reducing their fragile nature.

I'm more concerned about Heavy Gauss being nearly worthless.

(Edit: 7.5 to 0 seconds makes a lot of sense. /Sarcasm. Fixed.)

Edited by Koniving, 25 November 2017 - 01:53 AM.

[theta123]

BigBenn, on 21 November 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

REMOVE THE CHARGE UP FOR ALL GAUSS!!!

If people still cry and mope then increase the reload time.

No. And i am a HUGE user of the gauss rifle. I have 2 HGR Builds, many Dual gauss builds and even a Nightstar 3 Light gauss build. Remove the charge, and you can also just remove autocannons

Things that could improve the Light gauss rifle=
-Increase damage to 10
-Allow 3 Light gausses to be fired so more builds could be viable
- Slightly increase ammo to 25/t

Cooldown is fine to me, if the damage gets buffed.

[Khobai]

Quote

Remove the charge, and you can also just remove autocannons

why? gauss doesnt do anywhere near the dps of autocannons.

chargeup is whats preventing weapons like heavy gauss from being useful

the whole chargeup mechanic needs to be removed

Edited by Khobai, 25 November 2017 - 03:27 AM.

[davoodoo]

theta123, on 25 November 2017 - 02:08 AM, said:

No. And i am a HUGE user of the gauss rifle. I have 2 HGR Builds, many Dual gauss builds and even a Nightstar 3 Light gauss build. Remove the charge, and you can also just remove autocannons

Things that could improve the Light gauss rifle=
-Increase damage to 10
-Allow 3 Light gausses to be fired so more builds could be viable
- Slightly increase ammo to 25/t

Cooldown is fine to me, if the damage gets buffed.

no charge, no gh, 3s cd.

that will give us 2.67 dps for 12 tons.

lets put it on some actual example
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1df6ec9210839c4
32 alpha every 3s for 10,6dps.

nothing really impressive

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1446bd87fdc3ee7
not when this pumps out between 12 and 24 dps.

Edited by davoodoo, 25 November 2017 - 03:43 AM.

[theta123]

Khobai, on 25 November 2017 - 03:23 AM, said:

why? gauss doesnt do anywhere near the dps of autocannons.

chargeup is whats preventing weapons like heavy gauss from being useful

the whole chargeup mechanic needs to be removed

Back when gauss had no charge up, it pretty much eliminated the AC20. You had a weapon wich had 1 sec more cooldown, and weights 1 ton more

But had no heat, no bullet drop, vastly superior range, smaller in size (thus more crit slots) and more ammo/ton. Sure gauss rifle can "explode" but just install a 0.5t case and that worry is also away

More importantly, if you made a brawler build, a gauss was a better option as you did not became useless beyond your brawler range.

This will still apply today.

[davoodoo]

theta123, on 25 November 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

Back when gauss had no charge up, it pretty much eliminated the AC20. You had a weapon wich had 1 sec more cooldown, and weights 1 ton more

But had no heat, no bullet drop, vastly superior range, smaller in size (thus more crit slots) and more ammo/ton. Sure gauss rifle can "explode" but just install a 0.5t case and that worry is also away

More importantly, if you made a brawler build, a gauss was a better option as you did not became useless beyond your brawler range.

This will still apply today.

Yes because you were swapping 270m range weapon for 660m one or 144% increase
It wont really apply when swapping 450m range weapon for 750 one or 67% increase
Unlike ac20, which was outranged by everything, laservomit operates at 400m.

Also its not like we have uacs now and im not gonna swap 40 dmg uac20 for 15dmg gauss...

finally, case will stop damage from spreading, but location with gauss is still boned.

Edited by davoodoo, 25 November 2017 - 04:05 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Back when gauss had no charge up, it pretty much eliminated the AC20. You had a weapon wich had 1 sec more cooldown, and weights 1 ton more

but now we have the UAC20

Quote

This will still apply today.

not really since UAC20 easily beats gauss for brawling. you really think a 15 damage gauss competes with a 40 damage UAC20? nope.

UAC20 also isnt linked with SNPPCs for ghost heat (assuming SNPPCs ever get fixed)

chargeup on gauss should be removed. its a bad mechanic and its completely unnecessary now.

gauss, even with no chargeup, is a complete joke to the other brawling weapons that exist nowadays.

Edited by Khobai, 25 November 2017 - 04:30 AM.