247 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Grus, on 28 November 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

But back to the OP I think the clan laservom is just fine right now. If we had a better option then we would use it. You know, like RAC5's that blind and never jam...

Or ac's that do all their damage per shot...

A. Only IS ballistic being used wholesale is the UAC/2, which shares single-shot nature with the cUAC/2 but has a 2 ton and 110 meter penalty all to get a token reduction in jam duration; it's just that the NTG is nerfed far enough that it isn't the go-to dakka Heavy; shout out to UAC/5, though a Slepnir will lose to an MCII/B because UAC/30 > UAC/20.

B. RACs are memes, but they are not good; peak out, retreat without shooting just as the RAC user begins, then immediately peak out again and actually shoot him this time as he spools again. Especially easy to game using cERPPC.

C. Clan ERPPC remain the best PPC in the game

D. Clan Gauss remains the best ballistic in the game

E. Clan LB-20X and Clan SRM6+Artemis still make the best brawling Heavies and Assaults in the game

F. Clans have MG boat Lights with as much alpha power as IS energy Lights to go with it

G. Clan Laser Vomit remains more potent than all of the IS options anyway, so...noep.

[MischiefSC]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 November 2017 - 06:05 PM, said:

Even without the CS, the Clans push better. You might initially get maybe one more consecutive shot without it from an IS 'Mech, but once you are heat capped your next shot comes sooner for the Clan 'Mech.

That said, if you are pushing with laser vomit then you are using cMPL. Those fire and cycle faster than IS ERML, IS ML, and comparably to IS LPL. It's...kind've broken right now. They should not have nerfed the other Medium lasers.

9 mpls on 65 tonners. Or stupidly cool 85 tonners.

Not as good for QP though, because you can't trust your team to push. You can still push with the HLL/CERML, it's just not as stupidly OP as the 9mpl setup.

[LT. HARDCASE]

You guys need to stop snitching on the C-MPL

[Y E O N N E]

MischiefSC, on 28 November 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

9 mpls on 65 tonners. Or stupidly cool 85 tonners.

Not as good for QP though, because you can't trust your team to push. You can still push with the HLL/CERML, it's just not as stupidly OP as the 9mpl setup.

I dunno, even just 6x cMPL on a 65 tonner with a YUUUUUGE targeting computer does just fine in QP, though these days I take a smaller TC and throw a cERPPC in so I can have a 52-point alpha with a duration as short as IS with none of the IS drawbacks. It is entertaining.

LT. HARDCASE, on 28 November 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

You guys need to stop snitching on the C-MPL

noe

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 28 November 2017 - 07:45 PM.

[Grus]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 November 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

A. Only IS ballistic being used wholesale is the UAC/2, which shares single-shot nature with the cUAC/2 but has a 2 ton and 110 meter penalty all to get a token reduction in jam duration; it's just that the NTG is nerfed far enough that it isn't the go-to dakka Heavy; shout out to UAC/5, though a Slepnir will lose to an MCII/B because UAC/30 > UAC/20.

B. RACs are memes, but they are not good; peak out, retreat without shooting just as the RAC user begins, then immediately peak out again and actually shoot him this time as he spools again. Especially easy to game using cERPPC.

C. Clan ERPPC remain the best PPC in the game

D. Clan Gauss remains the best ballistic in the game

E. Clan LB-20X and Clan SRM6+Artemis still make the best brawling Heavies and Assaults in the game

F. Clans have MG boat Lights with as much alpha power as IS energy Lights to go with it

G. Clan Laser Vomit remains more potent than all of the IS options anyway, so...noep.

if im poking sure rac's are a joke. If I'm pushing to take and hold a ally for example they are devastating.

[MischiefSC]

Grus, on 28 November 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:

if im poking sure rac's are a joke. If I'm pushing to take and hold a ally for example they are devastating.

They spread too much. Turn on nightvision to ignore the flash.

The point is that you've hit them a few times before you push, or when they're coming to push. The same could be said of SRM brawlers or SPL boats, even now - high DPS, mediocre alpha, dangerous if they're fresh at 100m.

[Aiden Skye]

At this point clan mechs are getting boring. Single weapons have been so nerfed they pretty much feel pointless unless you stack. C-tech = Heat, cooldown, duration, spread damage. My IS Marauder has been so much more fun with dual heavy PPC's, med lasers and a RAC. More options, more customization, more fun. I feel clan tech missing a lot of that these days....and here we are on the forums again asking to make it worse...cuz nerfs are so much fun. Thanks guys.

[Khobai]

yeah the singleton weapons like the CUAC20 need to be buffed.

I use an ISUAC20 on my atlas, and I actually like it. But the CUAC20 sucks.

[Y E O N N E]

W A R K H A N, on 28 November 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

At this point clan mechs are getting boring. Single weapons have been so nerfed they pretty much feel pointless unless you stack. C-tech = Heat, cooldown, duration, spread damage. My IS Marauder has been so much more fun with dual heavy PPC's, med lasers and a RAC. More options, more customization, more fun. I feel clan tech missing a lot of that these days....and here we are on the forums again asking to make it worse...cuz nerfs are so much fun. Thanks guys.

I agree.

And the sad part is this is the price it pays for being so powerful. Because PGI won't actually make the two sides operate with similar potential, they make one side un-fun in a ham-fisted attempt to tone it down and make the other appear more appealing. Bad agility, homogeneous builds, long cool-downs, funky ghost heat groupings, strange max range fall-off...

...yuck.

But by the same token, part of this is also just the nature of Clan tech. There are no trade-offs to be made. You can have it all: speed, safety, firepower, and cooling. You have all the slots, all the tons. There's no choice, and no need for choice. The IS have stricter limits, and it is the presence and manipulation of those limits which enhance fun.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 28 November 2017 - 09:38 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Do you guys ever get tired of making every fricking thread exactly the same. E X A C T L Y T H E S A M E E V E R Y F R I C K I N G T I M E O N E V E R Y F R I C K I N G T H R E A D.

And no hitscan weapons like IS lasers and Clan machine gun lights are not even close. 1v1 IS lasers win. Clan MG light is only good for picking the scraps of meat off the bones.

Edited by JackalBeast, 28 November 2017 - 10:24 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

My experience with using HLLs which has a burn time of like, 1.5s or something (i dont remember the exact numbers) is that it was a great way to lose a side torso because the enemy has more than 2s (taking into account the time to get your hardpoints clear + burn time + time to reverse behind cover) to spot you, alpha your side torso and torso twist to block your burn with shield arms.

Unless you time your trades so that you only expose yourself to fire after the enemy has fired on your teammates, effectively using them as a shield/distraction...

And HMLs are a great way to get outbrawled, unless your opponent deliberately lets you cool down/cycle your weapons after every alpha.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 28 November 2017 - 10:25 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 28 November 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

And no hitscan weapons like IS lasers and Clan machine gun lights are not even close. 1v1 IS lasers win. Clan MG light is only good for picking the scraps of meat off the bones.

MG Lights have 20-30 points of laser alpha. They can poke as well as shred.

A 6x HMG + 2x HML ACH is basically the strongest dueling Light in the game.

[Dogstar]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 November 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

But by the same token, part of this is also just the nature of Clan tech. There are no trade-offs to be made. You can have it all: speed, safety, firepower, and cooling. You have all the slots, all the tons. There's no choice, and no need for choice. The IS have stricter limits, and it is the presence and manipulation of those limits which enhance fun.

For me clan tech is so boring and IS so underpowered that I've simply stopped enjoying the game at all. I can choose to either have an interesting build on a good looking IS mech and get a below average performance OR take any of a few different but identical clan mechs, all with the exact same weapons, and get a very boring above average performance.

That's a lose-lose situation and its why PGI and this game are dooooooooooooomed...

(in the long run)

Edited by Dogstar, 29 November 2017 - 12:29 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JackalBeast, on 28 November 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

Do you guys ever get tired of making every fricking thread exactly the same.

Yes. PGI should do something about it, no?

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Dogstar, on 29 November 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

For me clan tech is so boring and IS so underpowered that I've simply stopped enjoying the game at all. I can choose to either have an interesting build on a good looking IS mech and get a below average performance OR take any of a few different but identical clan mechs, all with the exact same weapons, and get a very boring above average performance.

That's a lose-lose situation and its why PGI and this game are dooooooooooooomed...

(in the long run)

This is more or less why I stopped playing the game altogether. I love it, but I can't stand it anymore.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

the answer to it all is so simple:

42.
if you think something is so frikkin overpowered - just play it yourself.
in case of the HeavyLasers, you might find the grass might be greener and all that.

I enjoy using them on clanside - I also have my share of fun if I drop IS and see them on the other side.
try to work with their disadvantages. wanna see how that's done? use them yourself and the other side will teach you. fast.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 29 November 2017 - 04:11 AM, said:

if you think something is so frikkin overpowered - just play it yourself.
in case of the HeavyLasers, you might find the grass might be greener and all that.

I did. The results? My best Season ever.

Must be random

[adamts01]

It would be great if the game would spread that damage a little if a mech were to stack a bunch of ERMLs on top of Heavy LLs and alpha strike. Oh, every other game figured it out for us! Cone of fire for the win!!! One HLL isn't a problem, and 2 isn't a problem. The problem is all the MLs stacked on top all going to a single component. Dice roll mech hit boxes in a pinpoint fps game was wrong from the beginning.

[The Basilisk]

Snazzy Dragon, on 27 November 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

They are simply way too efficient for their tonnage despite the heat and slots.

Let's just compare right quick;

The previous damage "record" from using only 2 large laser family weapons were the 13 damage clan large pulse lasers, for 26 damage, at 12 tons. It's 24 damage now.
2 clan ER large lasers are 8 tons, for 22 damage, still beating out 2 isERLL (18 dmg) by a pretty noticeable margin.

IS large lasers need to be in a 15 ton trio to even compete on "equal" footing, dealing 27 damage. With large pulses you were sitting on 21 tons for 33 damage (30 now because of shortsighted nerfs).

Now, the heavy large laser pair is only 8 tons for 36 damage. Sure, you are saddled with high heat and long cooldowns, but it isn't a significant factor when the role of large lasers has generally been to shoot and fade anyway. Heavy large lasers pair even better than the cLPL does with cERMLs due to the saved tonnage despite the increase in crit space, so they've significantly boosted the potency of clan laser vomit. 2HLL + 4-6 ER medium lasers is the norm, and on mechs that can throw gauss into the mix, and with the Deathstrike being able to swap the ER mediums for heavy mediums with no real issue, things get really out of proportion for how powerful it is.
And, before the duration argument crops up, HLLs deal higher damage/tick than any other laser, so in the same time it takes other lasers to fire off and finish, you've almost always won the trade already. The extra duration is just the leg up if it lands. You're often dealing more than 8 extra damage on the other guy, and as a clan mech, you've probably just fired a crapton of other stuff with it, too.

TL;DR something needs to be done to curb their power. Cooldown is almost meaningless for balancing lasers larger than a small laser, so it needs to be in the raw damage or the duration, or in the range at which they can be used effectively.

The overarching problem, was, is and always will be the "the boatin issue"

The ability to take multiple smaler weaponsystems and praktikally fuse them together so they work as one single weaponsystem is what makes lasers in particular but other smal weaponsystems also....much more powerfull than they should be.

Only way to address this is to take away any advantage of taking more than one weapon of a kind at the same time.

[Athom83]

Grus, on 28 November 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

But back to the OP I think the clan laservom is just fine right now. If we had a better option then we would use it.

Do you not see the hypocrisy/stupidity of your statement here? "Its just fine" right into "If we had a better option", meaning that it is just fine being the best option?

Grus, on 28 November 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

You know, like RAC5's that blind and never jam...

Except that they do jam, quite easily and soon in fact. Only mechs with hefty jam reduction quirks can keep them redlined for a while (and even then sometimes they jam as soon as it goes red). RAC/2s are basically useless for their weight and heat, while RAC/5s are okay-ish. And the blinding is one of there only redeeming qualitys, yet the UAC/2 does it far better.

Grus, on 28 November 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Or ac's that do all their damage per shot...

And they are either very low damage per shot, have a very short range, or fire in salvos. cGauss is vastly better in most situations, and is so cool you can pair it with heavy lasers easily.